Wrangler
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Not really responsive to the fact that the trinity is not in the Bible.
Exploring Trinitarian Logic
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TigersPaw
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Interesting Topic.
But still seems that we are looking at this from a complicated angle.
When there is no need. Simplified:
1. God the creator, knows all, present, future past all that is, all that will be.
2. Jesus Messenger from God, to share Gods concerns the word in Human form from God.
3. Holy Spirit, Messenger of Gods will, unlike Gods words in #2.
This is my relationship I have. I have felt the Holy Spirit, so I do not doubt the existence myself.
I am saved by Christs sacrifice. No doubt on the either.
God is far superior to anything we can fathom. It is this supreme power that required a way to communicate with us.
This thought process is supported by scripture.
For the more complicated biblical version:
MY, approach is an reminder that faith doesn't need to be overly complicated. By focusing on the essence of God's relationship with humanity and how that relationship is communicated, we can distilled Christian theology into a relatable and profound truth. It's both practical and theologically sound, grounded in scripture and enriched by personal experience.
These are my opinions yours may vary.
( This topic is good, but a few nasty self righteous posters in here needs to stop, I ended up blocking ppl today first since i joined)
But still seems that we are looking at this from a complicated angle.
When there is no need. Simplified:
1. God the creator, knows all, present, future past all that is, all that will be.
2. Jesus Messenger from God, to share Gods concerns the word in Human form from God.
3. Holy Spirit, Messenger of Gods will, unlike Gods words in #2.
This is my relationship I have. I have felt the Holy Spirit, so I do not doubt the existence myself.
I am saved by Christs sacrifice. No doubt on the either.
God is far superior to anything we can fathom. It is this supreme power that required a way to communicate with us.
This thought process is supported by scripture.
For the more complicated biblical version:
. God the Creator: Knower of All
- Simplified Understanding: God, as the omniscient Creator, exists beyond time and space, knowing all that has been, is, and will be. This aligns with passages like Isaiah 46:9-10, where God declares, "I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things not yet done."
- Practical Faith: This understanding reinforces trust in God's plan, even when human understanding falls short. Our acknowledgment of God's superiority underscores the humility and reverence that faith requires.
2. Jesus: The Word Made Flesh
- Simplified Understanding: Jesus is the Word of God (John 1:1-14), sent in human form to bridge the gap between the divine and humanity. As a messenger, Jesus embodied God's concerns and love, providing a tangible and relatable connection to the Creator.
- Scriptural Basis: John 14:6 supports this view, where Jesus says, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." This positions Jesus as both messenger and mediator.
3. The Holy Spirit: God's Active Presence
- Simplified Understanding: The Holy Spirit conveys God's will, distinct from Jesus' incarnation as the Word. This "active messenger" resonates with the Spirit's role in guiding, comforting, and empowering believers (John 14:26).
- Personal Experience: Your personal encounter with the Holy Spirit reflects its transformative and affirming presence in the life of a believer. This aligns with Romans 8:16: "The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children."
A Unified Framework: God’s Communication with Humanity
Your framework illustrates a profound truth: God's supreme nature necessitates multiple forms of communication with humanity. The Trinity—God the Creator, Jesus the Word, and the Holy Spirit—offers different, complementary ways to connect with the divine. This concept echoes the relational nature of Christianity: God reaching out to humanity in ways we can grasp.Faith Anchored in Experience
Your acknowledgment of the Holy Spirit's presence and Christ's sacrifice speaks to a faith deeply rooted in both experience and conviction. It's this personal relationship that forms the foundation of Christian life, as emphasized in passages like Ephesians 2:8: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God."MY, approach is an reminder that faith doesn't need to be overly complicated. By focusing on the essence of God's relationship with humanity and how that relationship is communicated, we can distilled Christian theology into a relatable and profound truth. It's both practical and theologically sound, grounded in scripture and enriched by personal experience.
These are my opinions yours may vary.
( This topic is good, but a few nasty self righteous posters in here needs to stop, I ended up blocking ppl today first since i joined)
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The problem with your trinitarian logic already is legion. "From" God is proof Jesus is NOT God.
Also, you are invoking circular reasoning in stating something I never heard before, that Jesus is a "Messenger" from God. This is a word meaning angel and is nowhere in Scripture. So, you cannot have as your 2nd premise several illogical fallacies of a long list and suppose your conclusion is logical. From Scripture, it is explicitly taught over and over again that he is a man. In addition, it is implied from his own words that he is from or OF God as you say, specifically, a prophet. God goes to prophets; they do not come from him directly part are of we, the people - as Jesus specificially is said to be at Deutoronomy 18:15-15 and confirmed ay John 1:45.
In order for a logical train to be valid, each premise has to be valid. Premise 2 is invalid for it contradicts explicit teachings of Scripture.
As a prophet, as a man Jesus was ministered to by Messengers, by Angels. Another circular reference for why would a messenger from God be ministered to by messengers from God? So, there are all kinds of logical problems with your "simple" presentation. It would hurt my brain cells to go through the illogic of each premise. But by way of comparison, compare to syllogisms such as this.
P1. God cannot die.
P2. Jesus died.
C. Jesus is not God.
Sorry, but "God is spirit" (John 4:24). No hands.
Don't take everything so literally, my friend! (Next you'll be declaring that "Asahel was as swift of foot as a wild gazelle” (2 Samuel 2:18). Usain Bolt would have had no chance against him!)
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Who said he wasn’t a Spirit?
Never said he had human hands.
God has hand, make sure you check the Bible before you post.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Not biblical.
Sorry God
has hands..Biblical.
Ps 89:13 above gives us the meaning of the hand of God. It is primarily God's power or authority. The hand of God is the means by which He accomplishes what He wants to do just as you use your hands to perform your daily tasks. God's hand is His power. He accomplishes His purposes by His mighty power.
| Audio Crossref Comm Hebrew Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version For the LORD Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him? His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back? New Living Translation The LORD of Heaven’s Armies has spoken— who can change his plans? When his hand is raised, who can stop him?” English Standard Version For the LORD of hosts has purposed, and who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, and who will turn it back? Berean Standard Bible The LORD of Hosts has purposed, and who can thwart Him? His hand is outstretched, so who can turn it back? God holds me in the palm of his hand, that I do know. |
face2face
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This is an interesting topic. Does God use human terms like "hands, finger, bosom" to help us relate to Him more personally?
He is Spirit and dwells in light unapproachable but does he have form?
F2F
Taken
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No I did not respond to your accusation…
“Strawman”….noticed it…highlighted iit…and ignored it..
However I did post a question to you.
Can you answer the question?
Glory to God,
Taken
Ritajanice
Born-Again
No....what say you @face2face ?..how does he relate to you?
How do you even know that he exists?
Check your Bible.or ask for divine heart revelation. , then check your Bible ?
What say you @face2face ?
face2face
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When the Lord ascended Heaven for the first time not having seen His Father before what did he see sitting on the Throne? Was it a Father he could embrace? My mind boggles at the thought to their first meeting!
Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” John 20:17
That verse is rather incredible in more ways than one!
F2F
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Mystery, one day we too will see them both.do you believe that?
I don’t even understand it to be honest.
face2face
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This is where I find the whole Trinitarian debate is quite off-putting, as it tends to confuse the persons of God and Jesus, while attempting to create a notion of another god (HS) altogether.
F2F
Taken
Well-Known Member
Gen 1:
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
ManKinds image and likeness is a similitude to God…
Doubtful the SAME…”material” kind of flesh…
And not the SAME whole LIFE..”material”…
Mans body’s Life IS BLOOD…
That does not apply to God…
Bodily “image” “appearance” (head, trunk, arms, legs, hands, feet….I suspect likely.
Change the outer appearance…
God - Yes.
Mankind - Yes.
Communicate without being seen -
God - Yes
Mankind - Yes
“Likeness”….(ability to think, choose, have emotions, likes, dislikes, etc.) Yes.
Glory to God,
Taken
Ritajanice
Born-Again
The Born Again have security in their spirit.
You don’t need to believe in the trinity to know in your spirit that you’re Born Again.
I don’t believe in the trinity like you, it’s manmade, plus trinity isn’t biblical.
Praise God for the Living testimony of the Spirit.
face2face
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It's commonly understood the likeness comes from the Elohim (angels) who as you know they always present as men in appearance.
F2F
Anthropomorphic references, all of them. The Biblical authors you cite naturally used descriptive concepts they understood. Just as we would expect.
Taken
Well-Known Member
The “Lord” was WITH God…when the Earth was being Established….
(Which was BEORE manKind was created).
However “at” THAT time in ancient history…
Jesus’ name was Secret.
God was not yet called “the Father”.
Jesus was not yet called “the Son”.
Glory to God,
Taken
face2face
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Study the Word without the dogma and you will see the beauty of Christ's prayer in John 17 and how he longed to see his Father for the first time.
It's all there is you care to look
F2F
Taken
Well-Known Member
God IS Spirit, without beginning or ending.
Angels are Created spirit that can not die.
Human have a spirit that is natural and subject to death.
Angels CAN and do have the power to APPEAR (unbeknownst to men), in the LIKENESS AS men.
God WHO is Supreme Power (and the source of an Angels Power)….ALSO has the Power to APPEAR in the LIKENESS AS a man.
When Angels appear in the Likeness as a human, they will be called a man.
Glory to God,
Taken
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