Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[face2face]

So then you must be now an Amillennialistic if you were not before, by now, or a current-ongoing millennialist, as when Christ 'returns' it's all over, no 1000yr future Kingdom...

Ultimately, Christ's campaigns to humble and bring the nations into subjection will culminate in the complete submission of all peoples. At that time (unknown), as Psalm 72:11 proclaims, "All kings shall bow down before him; all nations shall serve him." This will fulfill the prophecy in Revelation 11:15, which declares, "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever". Under the reign of Zion’s glorious King, the nations will be prepared to receive the abundant blessings of His rule and guidance. These blessings will be manifested in numerous ways, touching every aspect of human life, and the glorified saints will serve as the ministers of these blessings and teachings.

 

[face2face]

You keep raising arguments... Jesus is not God because, etc etc etc. Yet you actually deny the very thing that is the greatest evidence of His deity and divinity...His Sonship of God.

It's the denial of the endowed Power which is more concerning Brakelite.

It doesn't make sense to give power to an already powerful being.

You cannot inherit a position or authority if it was already yours to begin with.

You cannot receive an inheritance if it has always been in your possession.

You beleive in a contradiction of terms.

You cannot believe a being who holds divine nature die and then be reward with eternal nature!

18 and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades Re 1:18.

What this suggests is that you are still holding onto the belief in a Son of God who couldn't truly die, couldn't genuinely be tempted by sin (couldnt sin), and wasn't truly a man who became High Priest, nor was He taken from among men.

“42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. ”
John 8:42, 56, 58 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

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“1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. ”
1 John 1:1-3 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

Abraham understood that God would have a Son through the seed of a woman. By faith, Abraham saw that the miraculous birth of Isaac was a foreshadowing of how God would bring forth a Son from fallen humanity to overcome sinful flesh and reveal His righteousness in weak human flesh.

The Cost to God would be great! Greater perhaps than you currently can fathom!

F2F

 

[face2face]

You keep raising arguments... Jesus is not God because, etc etc etc. Yet you actually deny the very thing that is the greatest evidence of His deity and divinity...His Sonship of God.

And yet Jesus uses the title Son of Man 80 times and Son of God 5 times.

Greatest evidence you say?

Let me show you something Brakelite

Son of Man is the title of Christ as judge

John 5:27 (ESV) says:

"And he (God) has given him (Jesus) authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.

Do you think it was on the basis of Jesus being preexistence Angel, or god that gave him this authority?

Christ became the Captain of Yahweh's army because he is the one who withstood the temptation to sin, experiencing anguish to the point of sweating drops of blood in a nature he described as "agony every day!!" and from which Jesus has now been redeemed.

This is what qualified Christ the Son of Man to be given authority to execute judgement!

And even in his glorified exalted state sitting at the right hand of the Father on High, who is he?

"And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle." Rev 1:13

Not Son of God, NOT God the Son, BUT Son of Man.

Now if I may push your thinking a little further Brakelite

The vision described in Revelation was not a direct representation of Christ himself, though he was certainly a part of it. Instead, it was of one "like unto" him, similar to the vision seen by Daniel, who described "one like the similitude of the sons of men" (Dan. 10:16) after being raised from his symbolic death. Both the prophet and the apostle saw symbolic representations of the Christ - Body, of which the Lord Jesus is the head (Eph. 4:13). Every member of this glorious, collective Body will be "like Him" (1 John 3:2).

Now this Vision is NOT a vision of Michael the Arch Angel - Absolultely not! This Vision of Daniel was not looking back to a preexistent Divine Being but looking forward - To Christ!

The title "Son of Man" carries deep significance. It points to the origin of each member, as all will be descendants of Adam, but also serves as the title of the Lord in His role as judge of men (John 5:27). This vision, therefore, represents the Christ Body fulfilling His work of judgment. The prophecy of the Son of Man in Daniel 7:13 is one of judgment....Revelation continues the story...

"I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him."

Brakelite, when Jesus taught the people he spoke the words of Yahweh: "My doctrine (teaching) is not mine, but His that sent me" (Jn. 7:16; cp. Jn. 6:63). He was the Son of God. But when he sits to judge his people, it is as a Son of Man, the one who "was to look upon like a jasper and sardine stone" (Rev. 4:3), the representation of flesh made spirit-nature.

F2F

 

[face2face]

I think Jesus became God

Every false doctrine related to theology began with that preposition "I".

We are 113 pages into this discussion and the evidence is a tidal wave against your "I" Matt.

You would do well to read all the 113 pages then return with "It is quoted" or "The writer here states.." or "Have you not read..."

You would do well to do that!

F2F

 

[MatthewG]

There is nothing wrong with thinking.

 

[face2face]

There is nothing wrong with thinking.

There is if it runs roughshod over the Word of God

 

[MatthewG]

Whatever you want, Face2Face. What I do find interesting is that there is not a resolve for most. Just constant back and forth. Whether I am right or wrong, in the end it doesn't matter. What will matter is the heart of the individual whom seeks out God faithfully, and desires to do his will over their own. Therefore, you can say whatever you want. I've been called a heretic, a child of the devil, etc... etc... none of those things really effect me anymore nor the relationship that is had with Yahavah, and fellowship with the Son of God. And I desire that for that to be for people in their life. To have a personal relationship lived faithfully looking towards Yahavah, and the one whom he raised from the dead. For some the liberty that Christ brings, is too much.

 

[face2face]

Whatever you want, Face2Face. What I do find interesting is that there is not a resolve for most. Just constant back and forth. Whether I am right or wrong, in the end it doesn't matter. What will matter is the heart of the individual whom seeks out God faithfully, and desires to do his will over their own. Therefore, you can say whatever you want. I've been called a heretic, a child of the devil, etc... etc... none of those things really effect me anymore nor the relationship that is had with Yahavah, and fellowship with the Son of God. And I desire that for that to be for people in their life. To have a personal relationship lived faithfully looking towards Yahavah, and the one whom he raised from the dead. For some the liberty that Christ brings, is too much.

You may downplay the significance of truth, but He who is to be feared will not. Alter His Word, and the consequences may not be apparent in this life, but they will most certainly be in the one to come. I hope you will get to see how the Lord deals with those who purposefully deceive and turn His Word in lies.

F2F

 

[MatthewG]

Well, there are many liars on this planet. Therefore, by all means, don't address anything else I had to say in the post.

It's all good. My reputation doesn't mean anything. It's all for the glory of God if anything, and for hopes that people continue in faith in trusting Yahavah, and Yeshua whom was raised by the holy spirit of God from the dead.

 

[face2face]

Well, there are many liars on this planet. Therefore, by all means, don't address anything else I had to say in the post.

All men are liars Matthew - Psalm 116:11

I would expect the same warning to come from you if you were absoltely confident in your "Jesus is God" belief.

F2F

 

[MatthewG]

All men are liars Matthew - Psalm 116:11

I would expect the same warning to come from you if you were absoltely confident in your "Jesus is God" belief.

F2F

What is the fixation with me all of a sudden? What do you wanna chat about? Do you have a question?

 

[face2face]

What is the fixation with me all of a sudden?

You made a foolish claim — that will always catch my attention. I strive not to show favoritism and have addressed others who made similar foolish claims in the same way.

Perhaps next time, if you wish to present an argument for why you believe Jesus is God, feel free to do so! I welcome it. No doubt, you would acknowledge that millions of Trinitarians hold the same belief without much thought.

F2F

 

[MatthewG]

I do believe Jesus became God. Reread the post to understand why.

Exploring Trinitarian Logic

Sorry your wife is poorly bro, God bless you both, that she may heal and that you may rest. Thanks Bro..things happen when we get older as you well know...she's 72 in May and recovering from three traumatic events last year. God is always there for us. We do not know his plan for us, although...

www.christianityboard.com

I do believe the Word of God was with God and was God in the beginning.

No one has to accept what I believe. It's subjective.

If you have a question or something, I'll gladly do my best to address it hopefully by the spirit.

Ps. (Im not a trinity believer.) Though I love Yahavah, and Yeshua, and am thankful for the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Christ which is given by Yahavah.

 

[face2face]

I do believe Jesus became God. Reread the post to understand why.

Exploring Trinitarian Logic

Sorry your wife is poorly bro, God bless you both, that she may heal and that you may rest. Thanks Bro..things happen when we get older as you well know...she's 72 in May and recovering from three traumatic events last year. God is always there for us. We do not know his plan for us, although...

www.christianityboard.com

I do believe the Word of God was with God and was God in the beginning.

As do I.

And that Word which was with God and was is His Logos which became Flesh.

Now it's up to you and your Bible in hand to work out:

What type of Flesh
Why Flesh?
What did God achieve in that Flesh?
What was removed from that Flesh?
How was that Flesh changed?
Why couldn't Flesh be saved?

Ask as many questions as you can I am certain you will be revealed truth! But first cast away the creeds which destroy the text.

F2F

 

[MatthewG]

As do I.

And that Word which was with God and was is His Logos which became Flesh.

Now it's up to you and your Bible in hand to work out:

What type of Flesh
Why Flesh?
What did God achieve in that Flesh?
What was removed from that Flesh?
How was that Flesh changed?
Why couldn't Flesh be saved?

Ask as many questions as you can I am certain you will be revealed truth! But first cast away the creeds which destroy the text.

F2F

This is not something that concludes with my original post, therefore I am just gonna move on. All the best to you!

 

[face2face]

This is not something that concludes with my original post, therefore I am just gonna move on. All the best to you!

Of course you will Matthew...

 

[MatthewG]

I edited post

• #2,253

If anyone has any questions to it please feel free to ask. If you don't care, that is fine as well.

 

[face2face]

...And it was night

 

[face2face]

Something else to ponder @Brakelite

The term "Son of Man" sparked no outrage among the Jews, not even from Christ's enemies! Clearly, they did not interpret it as a claim to be a supernatural being, let alone a claim to be God. Can you truly argue that this term, in particular, is surprisingly encouraging to the orthodox belief that the Messiah is God Himself come to save us, or a repurposed angel/son?

What evidence exists to suggest that Jesus' Jewish audience understood it in this way?

F2F

 

[Wrangler]

There is nothing wrong with thinking.

It’s just an expression that means I think X is true.

Truth is independent of what people think. It is either true or not true, regardless of what people think.

God does not become, he is, or as he put it I AM (meaning eternal). There is a book entitled, Jesus is Not God with a Capital-G. He definitely became a lowercase-god, however.