Easter ? What are we celebrating?

[BreadOfLife]

Allow me one post more in answer,

This is what you BOF wrote,
"'The women left the Crucifixion, witnessed the Burial- THEN went home to prepare the spices and perfume - before resting for the Sabbath (John 19:31). Their rest BEGAN at sundown - NOT the next morning.'"
This is not Mark or Matthew or Luke. John OMITTED everything that happened between 19:30 when Jesus died, and "the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath" the Sixth Day began "when evening had come", WHICH 'Preparation' John defined "great-day-of-(PASSOVER-)sabbath"--NOT the weekly Sabbath which Luke wrote about where he says that "the women began to rest the Sabbath".

John picks up with the synoptists only in 19:38 where Joseph appeared on the scene for the first time in Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50.

John therefore leaves off after Jesus died in 19:30 where the synoptists leave off after Jesus died in Mark 15:37 Matthew 27:50 Luke 23:46 but before Joseph appears after "evening had come".

John therefore has his story of the Jews IN BETWEEN AFTER the evening had come and AFTER the next day HAD begun AFTER sunset when Joseph arrived "AFTER THESE THINGS" of the Jews verses 31 to 38.

The synoptists on the other hand have their record about "everybody who came to watch the spectacle" of the Crucifixion and saw Jesus die, IN BETWEEN, three hours BEFORE sunset BEFORE the evening BEFORE the Sixth Day began after sunset with evening and Joseph arrived Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50.

The synoptists tell of "everybody who came", who included "many women", not just the 2 Marys, who THEN went home, but not "'to prepare the spices and perfume - before resting for the Sabbath'", but "FLED HOME-WARDS, BEWILDERED HEART-BEATING FOR FEAR AND TERROR" while the crosses were left forlorn WITH THE CRUCIFIED ON THEM, UNTIL "evening had come ... there suddenly arrived Joseph".

The women left the scene and went home TWICE. First on the day Christ died. Second time on the day He was Buried. First time three hours before sunset; second time exactly as long, three hours, before sunset.

So this, "'The women left the Crucifixion, witnessed the Burial- THEN went home to prepare the spices and perfume - before resting for the Sabbath (John 19:31).'" contains two flagrant, inexcusable, inaccuracies.

WRONG.
It doesn't matter HOW may times you deny the Scriptural facts - you can't change them.

John doesn't "change" the day or anything else. He simply tells of events that happened AFTER the burial but BEFORE sundown.
Now - I've already schooled you on the fact that the Greek word used for "Evening" in Matt. 15:52 Ὀψίας (opsias), is a very loose term that encompasses SEVERAL HOURS. Your entire position is one of sour grapes because you have LOST this argument.

Mary Magdalene and Mary, mother of James and Joseph witnessed the burial of Jesus, then went home and prepared spices and perfumes but eventually had to stop and rest after sundown for the SABBATH (John 19:31).

That BURIES your entire argument . . .

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

WRONG.
It doesn't matter HOW may times you deny the Scriptural facts - you can't change them.

John doesn't "change" the day or anything else. He simply tells of events that happened AFTER the burial but BEFORE sundown.
Now - I've already schooled you on the fact that the Greek word used for "Evening" in Matt. 15:52 Ὀψίας (opsias), is a very loose term that encompasses SEVERAL HOURS. Your entire position is one of sour grapes because you have LOST this argument.

Mary Magdalene and Mary, mother of James and Joseph witnessed the burial of Jesus, then went home and prepared spices and perfumes but eventually had to stop and rest after sundown for the SABBATH (John 19:31).

That BURIES your entire argument . . .

Re: "'John doesn't "change" the day or anything else.'"

Who said he does? Not I!

Re: "'He (John) simply tells of events that happened AFTER the burial but BEFORE sundown.'"

"'AFTER the burial but BEFORE sundown.'" Where? Here, implied only in John 19:42b, not -quoting you- in "'John 19:41-42'".

What in John is implied only? What is mentioned expressly in Luke 23:54-56a.

Does John tell of events that happened AFTER Jesus had DIED but BEFORE sundown?
No. There is nothing told between 19:30 and 19:31.

Re: "'Ὀψίας (opsias), is a very loose term'"

First, John does not use Ὀψίας; your thoughts got loose mate.

Re: "'Mary Magdalene and Mary, mother of James and Joseph witnessed the burial of Jesus, then went home and prepared spices and perfumes but eventually had to stop and rest after sundown for the SABBATH (John 19:31).'"

I never had any problems with this except for your miserable pathetic misappropriation of John 19:31 where you should have stated Mark 16:47 Matthew 27:61 and Luke 23:56a; so how can it bury MY "'entire argument'"? -- it buries YOUR entire argument!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Re: "'John doesn't "change" the day or anything else.'"

Who said he does? Not I!

Re: "'He (John) simply tells of events that happened AFTER the burial but BEFORE sundown.'"

"'AFTER the burial but BEFORE sundown.'" Where? Here, implied only in John 19:42b, not -quoting you- in "'John 19:41-42'".

What in John is implied only? What is mentioned expressly in Luke 23:54-56a.

Does John tell of events that happened AFTER Jesus had DIED but BEFORE sundown?
No. There is nothing told between 19:30 and 19:31.

Re: "'Ὀψίας (opsias), is a very loose term'"

First, John does not use Ὀψίας; your thoughts got loose mate.

Re: "'Mary Magdalene and Mary, mother of James and Joseph witnessed the burial of Jesus, then went home and prepared spices and perfumes but eventually had to stop and rest after sundown for the SABBATH (John 19:31).'"

I never had any problems with this except for your miserable pathetic misappropriation of John 19:31 where you should have stated Mark 16:47 Matthew 27:61 and Luke 23:56a; so how can it bury MY "'entire argument'"? -- it buries YOUR entire argument!

As I admonished you earlier - cherry-picking verses from different Gospels, then pitting them against one another simply DOESN'T WORK, junior.

First of all - I never said that John used the Greek word for "Evening", Ὀψίας (opsias). I expressly stated that MARK used it in Mark 15:42. I told YOU to read ALL of the accounts and distill them in CONTEXT - but you failed again, making the same mistake of cherry-picking.

Now - pay attention. It is about 3:00 in the afternoon and Jesus has just died:
John 19:31
Now IT WAS THE DAY OF PREPARATION, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

The soldiers then break the legs of the other 2 men crucified with Jesus and pierce Jesus through the heart. Enter Joseph of Arimathea . . .

John 19:38-42
Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away. He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds. Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. Because IT WAS THE JEWISH DAY OF PREPARATION and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.


Here is the corresponding text from Luke’s Gospel:

Luke 23:54-56
IT WAS PREPARATION DAY, and the Sabbath was about to begin. The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

This ALL happened on the SAME day - the day that Jesus was crucified - FRIDAY.

THIS is why I told you that cherry-picking DOESN’T work. God took care of wolves like YOU so that His children would NOT be misled. Go sell your snake oil somewhere else . . .

You LOSE.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

As I admonished you earlier - cherry-picking verses from different Gospels, then pitting them against one another simply DOESN'T WORK, junior.

First of all - I never said that John used the Greek word for "Evening", Ὀψίας (opsias). I expressly stated that MARK used it in Mark 15:42. I told YOU to read ALL of the accounts and distill them in CONTEXT - but you failed again, making the same mistake of cherry-picking.

Now - pay attention. It is about 3:00 in the afternoon and Jesus has just died:
John 19:31
Now IT WAS THE DAY OF PREPARATION, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

The soldiers then break the legs of the other 2 men crucified with Jesus and pierce Jesus through the heart. Enter Joseph of Arimathea . . .

John 19:38-42
Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away. He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds. Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. Because IT WAS THE JEWISH DAY OF PREPARATION and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.


Here is the corresponding text from Luke’s Gospel:

Luke 23:54-56
IT WAS PREPARATION DAY, and the Sabbath was about to begin. The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

This ALL happened on the SAME day - the day that Jesus was crucified - FRIDAY.

THIS is why I told you that cherry-picking DOESN’T work. God took care of wolves like YOU so that His children would NOT be misled. Go sell your snake oil somewhere else . . .

You LOSE.

This is classic! Unimprovable. Boy am I happy with this!

NO, I owe God, no man or boy, thanks, worship and glory in all humbleness, for this post addressed in rebuttal to me, from an ordained and 'officiated'[*] Roman Catholic clergyman whose life's devotion went into "'Exposing anti-Catholic lies online for 15 years . . .'".

[*I cannot immediately recall the titles and honours 'BreadOfLife' has mentioned of himself several times now.]

O God, be merciful to me, a sinner! You have given me the most fitting crown of glory with this post. Now let me die, your most unworthy slave, in peace and great happiness. I have not fought the Good Fight in vain! God all the glory and thanks!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn NEVER FORGET that Bible Societies and Translation of the Scriptures were ANATHEMA until the late 1800s and early 1900s when the Roman Catholic Church inexplicably became the Great Guardian of all Bible Translation and Distribution, which in the 1950s and 80s reached pinnacle achievement!

 

[marksman]

Huh? You show me where it says that everything must be in Scripture

Now answer the question.

 

[marksman]

Jesus the Word of God said one shall live from every word of God, referring to the Scriptures referring to Him. If you do not find that covering everything, then so be it.

I do not remember asking you to answer my question.

 

[marksman]

Your research was incomplete as these verses will show. The first day of the week is called "Sunday" but for Christians who know better it is "the Lord's Day":

And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. (Acts 20:7)

Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. (1 Cor 16:1,2)

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. (Rev 1:10,11)

TESTIMONY OF JUSTIN MARTYR (2nd CENTURY)
And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things.

Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons.

And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need.

But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead.

For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

I am not interested in what Justin Martyr said. I am only interested in what the scripture says.

 

[marksman]

I see you completely failed to understand the point.

Since YOU couldn't show me where Scripture said ANY of what I asked YOU - why should I show YOU where it says to celebrate the Resurrection?
Better yet - why wouldn't you celebrate the Resurrection, which is THE pivotal point of the Christian faith??

SO - I'll be more than happy to answer YOUR question - just as soon as you address ANY one of mine.
Also - when you can show us where the Bible does it say that everything we do MUST be in the Bible . . .

I wonder how long it will take you to realise what a nasty piece of work you are?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I do not remember asking you to answer my question.

You forgot this is an open discussion forum. If you want to be a toffee, don't complain if you get chewed.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Your research was incomplete as these verses will show. The first day of the week is called "Sunday" but for Christians who know better it is "the Lord's Day":

...for Christians who know better than the Word of God, yes.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is classic! Unimprovable. Boy am I happy with this!
NO, I owe God, no man or boy, thanks, worship and glory in all humbleness, for this post addressed in rebuttal to me, from an ordained and 'officiated'[*] Roman Catholic clergyman whose life's devotion went into "'Exposing anti-Catholic lies online for 15 years . . .'".
[*I cannot immediately recall the titles and honours 'BreadOfLife' has mentioned of himself several times now.]
O God, be merciful to me, a sinner! You have given me the most fitting crown of glory with this post. Now let me die, your most unworthy slave, in peace and great happiness. I have not fought the Good Fight in vain! God all the glory and thanks!

In other words - you have NO intelligible response for the overwhelming Scriptural evidence that BURIES your position.

That's what I thought . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Christiaan Gerhardus Ebersöhn NEVER FORGET that Bible Societies and Translation of the Scriptures were ANATHEMA until the late 1800s and early 1900s when the Roman Catholic Church inexplicably became the Great Guardian of all Bible Translation and Distribution, which in the 1950s and 80s reached pinnacle achievement!

You mean the "Catholic Church" - not the "Roman Catholic Church".
I thought I already schooled you on the difference. One is the Church - the other is 1 of 20 Catholic Liturgical Rites.

The Church has ALWAYS been the guardian of the Holy Deposit of the faith through Apostolic Succession.
This isn't something that simply "popped up" in the 18th and 19th centuries.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I wonder how long it will take you to realise what a nasty piece of work you are?

And I wonder how long it will be before you finally admit that you are nothing more that an evasive and dishonest poster.

You couldn't answer ONE of my questions, so you whined about me being "nasty" instead.
Man up, markie . . .

 

[marksman]

And I wonder how long it will be before you finally admit that you are nothing more that an evasive and dishonest poster.

You couldn't answer ONE of my questions, so you whined about me being "nasty" instead.
Man up, markie . . .

My name is not markie and you are no bread of life that is for sure.

 

[marksman]

You forgot this is an open discussion forum. If you want to be a toffee, don't complain if you get chewed.

If you are not asked the question, how can you answer it apart from guessing?

 

[Enoch111]

...for Christians who know better than the Word of God, yes.

Anyone who reject's the Lord's Day rejects what Christ established. Ask yourself why John -- by divine inspiration -- mentioned the Lord's Day if there was no such special day for the apostolic Christians. And the testimony of Justin confirms that fully (no matter what you say about Justin Martyr).

Christ is called "the firstfruits of them that slept" as regards His resurrection, and this is a reference to the Feast of Firstfruits, which was held on "the morrow after the sabbath". Just as He fulfilled Passover on the Cross, He fulfilled Firstfruits in His resurrection. And the day after the sabbath is the first day of the week (the eighth day), which commemorates the resurrection of Christ. Hence "the Lord's Day" for the Lord's Table, and the Lord's Supper.

 

[BreadOfLife]

My name is not markie and you are no bread of life that is for sure.

No - my Lord Jesus is the Bread of Life (John 6:35).
My handle on this forum is simply a tribute to HIM.

Let me know when you're ready to have a grown-up discussion where you actually address the questions asked of you instead of being evasive and dishonest.
Until then, however - I will continue to expose your dishonesty at EVERY turn . . .

 

[Enoch111]

I am not interested in what Justin Martyr said. I am only interested in what the scripture says.

Well you have both, and you cannot ignore Justin's testimony in good faith. So what you are doing is showing bad faith. Not a Christian trait.

Paul could have met with the Christians at Troas at anytime, but the record shows that he waited for seven days in order to be at the church gathering on the first day of the week. And that is when he preached until midnight.

For those who whine about the Lord's Day being the day of the sun, they should study what the day of the evil god Saturn is all about. In any case that is totally irrelevant, and Sunday worship is certainly not connected with the Mark of the Beast (as some believe).

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

As I admonished you earlier - cherry-picking verses from different Gospels, then pitting them against one another simply DOESN'T WORK, junior.

First of all - I never said that John used the Greek word for "Evening", Ὀψίας (opsias). I expressly stated that MARK used it in Mark 15:42. I told YOU to read ALL of the accounts and distill them in CONTEXT - but you failed again, making the same mistake of cherry-picking.

Now - pay attention. It is about 3:00 in the afternoon and Jesus has just died:
John 19:31
Now IT WAS THE DAY OF PREPARATION, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.

The soldiers then break the legs of the other 2 men crucified with Jesus and pierce Jesus through the heart. Enter Joseph of Arimathea . . .

John 19:38-42
Later, Joseph of Arimathea asked Pilate for the body of Jesus. Now Joseph was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly because he feared the Jewish leaders. With Pilate’s permission, he came and took the body away. He was accompanied by Nicodemus, the man who earlier had visited Jesus at night. Nicodemus brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds. Taking Jesus’ body, the two of them wrapped it, with the spices, in strips of linen. This was in accordance with Jewish burial customs. At the place where Jesus was crucified, there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb, in which no one had ever been laid. Because IT WAS THE JEWISH DAY OF PREPARATION and since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.


Here is the corresponding text from Luke’s Gospel:

Luke 23:54-56
IT WAS PREPARATION DAY, and the Sabbath was about to begin. The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it. Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.

This ALL happened on the SAME day - the day that Jesus was crucified - FRIDAY.

THIS is why I told you that cherry-picking DOESN’T work. God took care of wolves like YOU so that His children would NOT be misled. Go sell your snake oil somewhere else . . .

You LOSE.

The above is not even random “‘cherry-picking verses’”; it is cherry picking whole verses to discard,

for one word they contain—the word
“‘"Evening", Ὀψίας (opsias)’” in Mark 15:42 and Matthew 27:57.

“‘Now - pay attention. … I expressly stated that MARK used it .."Evening", Ὀψίας (opsias) .. in Mark 15:42. … Now - …. It is about 3:00 in the afternoon and Jesus has just died: John 19:31 Now IT WAS THE DAY OF PREPARATION,’”

Yes, that’s it, BOL’s disposal technique to cherry-pick verses—

LEAVE OUT cardinal verses because they in “‘CONTEXT’” are

the very ones using the words “"Evening", Ὀψίας (opsias) already had

come since it was / continued to be the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath (‘Thursday-night’) .. there came Joseph…” Mark 15:42 Matthew 27:57 Luke 23:50,
“since / so that / NOW it WAS the Day of Preparation the Jews asked… and after these things Joseph besought…” John 19:31,38.