Does John 1:1 say Jesus is God

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Webers_Home

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In humans He put spirit in them.

JWs would probably call that "life force" which is transferrable.

For example: in order for their version of Michael the archangel to take on
human form, he had to relinquish his angel form because the Society does
not allow for someone to exist as a spirit being and a material being
simultaneously,

However, the death of Michael's angel form didn't cause the core of his being
to go out of existence.

"He had to become a perfect man and yet not lose his continuity of life. His
life-force was not to be extinguished but would be transferred to the ovum
of the virgin girl, Mary."
(Watchtower magazine, 2-15-82, p.7)

"Only in this way could the child eventually born have retained identity as
the same person who had resided in heaven as the Word."
(Aid to Bible
Understanding, 1971, p.920)


When Michael's human form passed away on the cross, his life force was
transferred back to his deceased angel form so it could be restored to life.
So Michael the archangel lives on, but his alter ego Jesus has to remain
deceased to make it possible for him to do so.
_
 

Peterlag

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A rich young ruler came to Christ and called him a “Good Teacher” (Luke 18:18). Jesus replied with “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone” (Luke 18:19). Why did Jesus not compliment this young ruler for calling him “good” if Jesus was telling people he was God? Instead Jesus gave the man a mild rebuke and said that no one was good except “God” and this is evidence that Jesus was not teaching that he was God. Jesus was very quick to make the distinction between himself and God, and in doing so affirmed what this Jewish man would have already believed, which was that there is one God, and Jesus was certainly not that one God.

Luke 2:52 says Jesus grew in favor with God. But if Jesus were God and part of the Trinity then he could not grow in favor with himself or the Father or the Holy Spirit. Jesus could only grow in favor with God if he himself were not God because the mutual love and blessing among the members of the Trinity would have been eternal and unchanging. When it comes to assigning positions of authority in the coming Kingdom of Christ, Jesus said those who will sit next to him as people with authority “is not mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father” (Matthew 20:23). Those positions of authority would be his to give if Jesus were God and co-equal with the Father.

And right here I think it's interesting to note that the popularity of the phrase “Deity of Christ” never appears in the Bible, nor is Christ ever called the “Deity” in the Scriptures. Colossians 2:9 says "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." This verse is stating that God placed all His fullness in Christ, which is quite different from saying that Christ is himself God. In Colossians 1:19 we read “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him.” That is true, but the fact that Christ has “all the fullness” of God does not make him God. Ephesians 3:19 says that Christians should be filled with “all the fullness of God” and that does not mean Christians will somehow become God.
 

Peterlag

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Here's some data I posted today on Isaiah 9:6...

Everlasting Father...

Jesus is not called the "Everlasting Father" anywhere else in Scripture? And that even Trinitarians deny that Jesus is the "Everlasting Father." The word translated "everlasting" is actually "age" and the correct translation is that Jesus will be called "father of the coming age." In the culture of the Bible, anyone who began anything or was very important to something was called its father.

Mighty God...

The phrase "Mighty God" can also be better translated. Those who are familiar with the Semitic languages know that a man who is acting with God's authority can be called "god." Although English makes a clear distinction between "God" and "god" the Hebrew language, which has only capital letters cannot. A better translation for the English would be "mighty hero" or "divine hero." Both Martin Luther and James Moffatt translate the phrase as "divine hero" in their Bibles.
 

Webers_Home

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Isa 9:6 . . For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and
his name shall be called the everlasting Father

Jesus died young and left behind no posterity.

"Who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the
land of the living"(Isa 53:8)

Spiritual leaders are sometimes called Fathers. For example when the
prophet Elijah was taken up; his protégé Elisha cried out:

"My father, My father; the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof."
(2Kgs 2:12)

Female spiritual leaders were called "mother". For example Deborah:

"The inhabitants of the villages ceased, they ceased in Israel, until that I
Deborah arose, that I arose a mother in Israel." (Jdg 5:7)

The thing is; all spiritual leaders prior to Jesus were hampered by mortality.

"The prophets, do they live forever?" (Zech 1:5)

But Christ, though he were once mortal, is now permanently alive.

"Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no
longer is master over him." (Rom 6:9)

"I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore." (Rev 1:18)
_
 

Peterlag

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Many of the Epistles start by saying something like...

Grace be unto you, and peace from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

How come the Holy Spirit person is always getting cheated out of the greeting?
 

Webers_Home

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Many of the Epistles start by saying something like... Grace be unto you, and peace
from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. How come the Holy Spirit person
is always getting cheated out of the greeting?

The epistles are generally regarded as letters from home. Well; Jesus and
his Father are heads of the house; whereas the Spirit is their servant.

In other words: as a born-again, adopted Christian; Jesus and his Father are
my kin folk; whereas the Spirit is not.
_
 

Peterlag

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The epistles are generally regarded as letters from home. Well; Jesus and
his Father are heads of the house; whereas the Spirit is their servant.

In other words: as a born-again, adopted Christian; Jesus and his Father are
my kin folk; whereas the Spirit is not.
_

I got a better idea. The epistles are the gospel of Christ and the Holy Spirit person is not mentioned because there is no Holy Spirit person.
 

Peterlag

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The Old Testament refers to the Messiah as “one like a son of man” and the phrase “son of man” was a Semitic idiom for a human being and it's used that way throughout the Old Testament. The phrase “son of man” also became a title of the Messiah when Daniel referred to him as “one like a son of man” (Daniel 7:13) and that explains why Jesus called himself “the son of man” many times. The use of the “son of man” in reference to the Messiah is one more piece of evidence that Jesus was fully human and one more reason that people were expecting the Messiah to be human. The New Testament teaches Jesus was a man and Jesus himself said he was “a man who has told you the truth” John 8:40. Jesus was not being disingenuous and hiding his “divine nature” but rather was making a factual statement that reinforced what the Jews were expecting of the Messiah—that he would be a fully human man.

The apostles also taught Jesus was a man and we see this when the Apostle Peter spoke in his sermon to the crowds gathered on the Day of Pentecost making a very clear declaration that Jesus was a man approved of God: “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you…” (Acts 2:22). Here Peter clearly taught that Jesus was a man and that God did miracles “by him.” Paul also taught Jesus was a man and we can see that when he was in Athens teaching a crowd of unsaved Gentiles about Jesus Christ and said that God would judge the world “by the man whom He has appointed” (Acts 17:31). Paul never said or implied that Jesus was anything but a “man.”

There are a number of other New Testament verses that state Jesus was a man and we can see them in places like Romans that says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Romans 5:15 says “For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” Some theologians teach that only God could pay for the sins of mankind, but the Bible specifically says that a man must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).
 
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Wrangler

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aul also taught Jesus was a man and we can see that when he was in Athens teaching a crowd of unsaved Gentiles about Jesus Christ and said that God would judge the world “by the man whom He has appointed” (Acts 17:31). Paul never said or implied that Jesus was anything but a “man.”

There are a number of other New Testament verses that state Jesus was a man and we can see them in places like Romans that says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Romans 5:15 says “For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” Some theologians teach that only God could pay for the sins of mankind, but the Bible specifically says that a man must do it.
The rationalizations that go against explicit Scripture truly show the power of indoctrinated idolatry. Everything - including the word of God - is secondary to defending their man-made idol.
 

Peterlag

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The rationalizations that go against explicit Scripture truly show the power of indoctrinated idolatry. Everything - including the word of God - is secondary to defending their man-made idol.

You would think this would wake up a lot of folks understanding that this was invented 4 or 5 hundred years later by the Catholics...

The Apostles Creed (believed to date back to shortly after the time of the apostles themselves) does not mention the Trinity or the dual nature of Christ. The Nicene Creed that was written in 325 AD and modified later added the material about Jesus Christ being “eternally begotten” and the "true God” and about the Holy Spirit being “Lord.” But it was the Athanasian Creed that was most likely composed in the latter part of the 4th century or possibly even as early as the 5th century that was the first creed to explicitly state the doctrine of the Trinity.
 
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Peterlag

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Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The title "Lord" (Greek, Kurious) as Kittel's observes, means "one who has full authority." (7) In the Old Testament, God alone had "full authority" and filled both functions of Creator (Elohim) and Lord (Jehovah). Jehovah is used in connection with men with whom He has entered into some kind of covenant, starting with Adam in Genesis 2:7, and including Israel. Several redemptive characteristics and divine functions are associated with the sacred name Jehovah (Yahweh), including giving righteousness (Jeremiah 23:6), healing (Exodus 15:26), sanctification (Exodus 31:13), providing (Genesis 22:14), protection from enemies (Exodus 17:15), giving peace (Judges 6:24), and being continually present (Ezekiel 48:35). These functions can be assumed and/or delegated by persons having the authority. God has delegated many, if not all of these divine functions to Jesus Christ to share in as "Lord."
 

GEN2REV

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The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself.
If you can't show this personal assertion with Scripture, your OP is fatally flawed.

Because the Bible supplies its own definition for 'The Word' in the same chapter in question, the onus is on you to show where in the Bible it defines that otherwise.

Because the facts contradict your hypothesis, your hypothesis is falsified.

You have zero Biblical evidence to support the notion that 'The Word' means anything but Jesus Christ.

Therefore, it is then proven by Scripture that The Word refers to Jesus Christ.
 

Wrangler

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If you can't show this personal assertion with Scripture, your OP is fatally flawed.

Because the Bible supplies its own definition for 'The Word' in the same chapter in question
No. 1st, the OP recognizes theos is not logos. Therefore, the literal reasoning of God is not literally God but figuratively a god.

2nd, the Bible is not a lexicon. It does not define words. Having said that, not every use of the word "word" in Scripture refers to Jesus. John 1:1-5 is one of those times.
 

GEN2REV

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No. 1st, the OP recognizes theos is not logos. Therefore, the literal reasoning of God is not literally God but figuratively a god.

2nd, the Bible is not a lexicon. It does not define words. Having said that, not every use of the word "word" in Scripture refers to Jesus. John 1:1-5 is one of those times.
How did I know you'd be along post haste? I could've literally put a post script at the bottom of my post that The Wrangler would appear immediately to support an opposing case.

The Bible does define itself and all True students of the Bible are well aware of this.

God did not write a book that He left wide open to the interpretation of any and all comers.

The proof of the definition of the term The Word is all over the Bible, not just in John 1.

And nobody made the nonsense claim that the term 'word' always means Jesus. That is intentionally absurd distraction tactics.

Despite your passion to discredit, and diminish, God's Word, the Bible clearly defines The Word as Jesus Christ.
 

Wrangler

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And nobody made the nonsense claim that the term 'word' always means Jesus. That is intentionally absurd distraction tactics.

Despite your passion to discredit, and diminish, God's Word, the Bible clearly defines The Word as Jesus Christ.
Dualism. While you admit it does not always mean Jesus, you insist it means Jesus without qualification. And again, the Bible is not a dictionary. It does not define words.

It must be very liberating to not be confined by:
1. Definition
2. Logic
3. Language Usage
4. Explicit Scripture.
 

Angelina

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No one went to heaven pre- Jesus. He's the first born of all creation because he made it possible for mankind to enter heaven whereas before, they went to the grave...John 3:13 tells us that he came from heaven. If that is true, then he pre-existed.
 
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GEN2REV

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Dualism. While you admit it does not always mean Jesus, you insist it means Jesus without qualification. And again, the Bible is not a dictionary. It does not define words.

It must be very liberating to not be confined by:
1. Definition
2. Logic
3. Language Usage
4. Explicit Scripture.
images
 

RLT63

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Jesus Christ is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son. The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word of God."

If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it is clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was "from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.
sn In the beginning. The search for the basic “stuff” out of which things are made was the earliest one in Greek philosophy. It was attended by the related question of “What is the process by which the secondary things came out of the primary one (or ones)?,” or in Aristotelian terminology, “What is the ‘beginning’ (same Greek word as beginning, John 1:1) and what is the origin of the things that are made?” In the New Testament the word usually has a temporal sense, but even BDAG 138 s.v. ἀρχή 3 lists a major category of meaning as “the first cause.” For John, the words “In the beginning” are most likely a conscious allusion to the opening words of Genesis—“In the beginning.” Other concepts which occur prominently in Gen 1 are also found in John’s prologue: “life” (1:4) “light” (1:4) and “darkness” (1:5). Gen 1 describes the first (physical) creation; John 1 describes the new (spiritual) creation. But this is not to play off a false dichotomy between “physical” and “spiritual”; the first creation was both physical and spiritual. The new creation is really a re-creation, of the spiritual (first) but also the physical. (In spite of the common understanding of John’s “spiritual” emphasis, the “physical” re-creation should not be overlooked; this occurs in John 2 with the changing of water into wine, in John 11 with the resurrection of Lazarus, and the emphasis of John 20-21 on the aftermath of Jesus’ own resurrection.)
tn The preposition πρός (pros) implies not just proximity, but intimate personal relationship. M. Dods stated, “Πρός…means more than μετά or παρά, and is regularly employed in expressing the presence of one person with another” (“The Gospel of St. John,” The Expositors Greek Testament, 1:684). See also Mark 6:3, Matt 13:56, Mark 9:19, Gal 1:18, 2 John 12.
sn And the Word was fully God. John’s theology consistently drives toward the conclusion that Jesus, the incarnate Word, is just as much God as God the Father. This can be seen, for example, in texts like John 10:30 (“The Father and I are one”), 17:11 (“so that they may be one just as we are one”), and 8:58 (“before Abraham came into existence, I am”). The construction in John 1:1c does not equate the Word with the person of God (this is ruled out by 1:1b, “the Word was with God”); rather it affirms that the Word and God are one in essence.
tn Or “and what God was the Word was.” Colwell’s Rule is often invoked to support the translation of θεός (theos) as definite (“God”) rather than indefinite (“a god”) here. However, Colwell’s Rule merely permits, but does not demand, that a predicate nominative ahead of an equative verb be translated as definite rather than indefinite. Furthermore, Colwell’s Rule did not deal with a third possibility, that the anarthrous predicate noun may have more of a qualitative nuance when placed ahead of the verb. A definite meaning for the term is reflected in the traditional rendering “the word was God.” From a technical standpoint, though, it is preferable to see a qualitative aspect to anarthrous θεός in John 1:1c (ExSyn 266-69). Translations like the NEB, REB, and Moffatt are helpful in capturing the sense in John 1:1c, that the Word was fully deity in essence (just as much God as God the Father). However, in contemporary English “the Word was divine” (Moffatt) does not quite catch the meaning since “divine” as a descriptive term is not used in contemporary English exclusively of God. The translation “what God was the Word was” is perhaps the most nuanced rendering, conveying that everything God was in essence, the Word was too. This points to unity of essence between the Father and the Son without equating the persons. However, in surveying a number of native speakers of English, some of whom had formal theological training and some of whom did not, the editors concluded that the fine distinctions indicated by “what God was the Word was” would not be understood by many contemporary readers. Thus the translation “the Word was fully God” was chosen because it is more likely to convey the meaning to the average English reader that the Logos (which “became flesh and took up residence among us” in John 1:14 and is thereafter identified in the Fourth Gospel as Jesus) is one in essence with God the Father. The previous phrase, “the Word was with God,” shows that the Logos is distinct in person from God the Father. ( Notes from the NET Bible)
 
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