The Bible isn’t written in a deceptive fashion. The Bible is written in Jewish fashion.
If it’s not read in the fashion that it’s written then a different understanding is taken from it. That’s Dr. Moen’s point (post#262).
Does John 1:1 say Jesus is God
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The Bible isn’t written in a deceptive fashion. The Bible is written in Jewish fashion.
If it’s not read in the fashion that it’s written then a different understanding is taken from it. That’s Dr. Moen’s point (post#262).
“Jesus is God’s descendant” = Jesus isn’t his ancestor, God.
That aside, who else, if anyone, would you say “has a legitimate place in God’s genealogy”?
Excellent.
Is the radio program you were listening to a local, regional or national program? Do you remember who the host was?
I would have asked him about Jewish monotheism, but Jewish monotheism is unrelated to trinitarianism. I imagine the host would have pointed that out.
Trinitarians agree on many things, not everything, among themselves concerning the Trinity. I’ve mentioned elsewhere the one soul (self) vs three souls (selfs) issue that divides trinitarians.
All well and good, until you end up saying it means something other than what it says.
This is the conclusion of the matter, I think, that you think we should not, and I think we should, understand that where it says YHWH, it means YHWH. And it goes from there.
You say, agency, I say, the Bible doesn't speak that way in any demonstrable way. You have not shown otherwise.
Much love!
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Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
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• Gen 5:3 . . Adam had a son in his own likeness, in his own image
In other words: Adam's offspring didn't come into the world as another
species. Seth came the same species as his dad; so that Seth was Adam and
Adam was Seth.
That same biological principle would hold true for God's offspring, viz: Jesus
would be God and God would be Jesus. But if Jesus isn't God's offspring,
then of course the JWs are right and traditional Christianity is very mistaken.
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• Gen 5:3 . . Adam had a son in his own likeness, in his own image
In other words: Adam's offspring didn't come into the world as another
species. Seth came the same species as his dad; so that Seth was Adam and
Adam was Seth.
That same biological principle would hold true for God's offspring, viz: Jesus
would be God and God would be Jesus. But if Jesus isn't God's offspring,
then of course the JWs are right and traditional Christianity is very mistaken.
_
That’s what the early Church Fathers did. That’s how we got from the Jewish unitary monotheism of Israel / Jesus to the trinitarianism of the Church.
Them aside . . . you are doing this today. I'm not, and I'm coming up with Trinity. So go figure!
And I'm going to have to conclude that you do not in fact have any actual examples from the Bible where a person is called by another's name, being sent in their place, as the narrative gives account. Demonstrably.
So then it is claims but lacking any actual Biblical evidence that this is so. Or so it seems to me.
Much love!
At best, that would make Jesus a demigod; God, Jr.
If by “traditional Christianity” you mean “trinitarianism,” I think it is very mistaken. It places the begetting of Jesus prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth, as it must, and denies that it has anything to do with reproduction, as it must.
The JWs understand Jesus to have been created as an angel prior to the creation of the heavens and the earth. I think that, too, is very mistaken.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
WHEN they cannot defeat the plain written truth in the bible , THEY then can only make these types of cliams my friend .
Just a reminder . THEY have to then attack either the source or make the claim YE can only understand it IF , IF
I AINT hearing any of them . By grace i know what i read in the bible and i know its true . AND WE STICKING TO IT MY FRIEND .
WE STICKING to the biblical truth . Men will do as they do for whatever reason they do .
BUT LAMBS GONNA DO AS JESUS SAID TO DO , CAUSE LAMBS BELONG TO THE KING and LOVE THE TRUTH .
RLT63
Well-Known Member
His name is Kevin Elkins. He doesn't understand theology. He attends the Church of Christ which is Trinitarian but he says Jesus never said he was God. He has a point but doesn't even know what his own Church teaches on the subject. He is conservative though and I agree with him on a lot of subjects. When it comes to theology he is shooting from the hip.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
ED ZACH LEE agrees my friend . CAUSE THE moment they try and twist it to say something else , ITS A BIG OL LIE from hades .
JOHN meant what he wrote and he wrote the truth . IF folks have a problem with what is written in the bible
THEN that is on THEM . Lambs love and embrace TRUTH , we dont twist it . we love it .
He’s right that Jesus never said he was God. Jesus was even very guarded about openly saying that he was the Messiah, the Son of God.
Taken
Well-Known Member
In context, when I said, WHAT DOES IT MATTER, what Moses called His God? (Moses didn’t HAVE....a NAME of Gods WORD, or a NAME/Title of Gods SPIRIT).... We DO, and DEBATE over it. And MOSES, without A NAME......believed IN God, His Word, His Spirit....so what does it Matter? Can’t introduce MOSES’ thoughts into the DEBATE, since He WAS NOT privy to the Names/Titles of Gods Word or the Name/Title of Gods Spirit....
If ANYONE believes IN...the Lord God Almighty....however one squabbles over, FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT........
To believe IN ONE, IS TO BELIEVE IN THE WHOLE of God.
The conundrum still plagues mankind.....Gods NAME...
God revealing JESUS, and saying HIS NAME is Above ALL OTHER NAMES.
Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
WILL, WORD, POWER,
Lord God Almighty....
ONE GOD, everything created and made, requires the handiwork’s of the WHOLE of God...
His WILL, His WORD, His POWER.
Jesus himself is always the best response to the trinitarian, binitarian and - in some cases, unitarian - arguments.
There is no God besides his God. Everything else is idols.
Fortunately for me, trinitarian scholarship knows better.
That when it says Saul, it means Saul, and when it says Jesus, it means Jesus, and when it says YHWH, it means YHWH? Better than that?
?
Much love!
Going in circles now . . .
Taken
Well-Known Member
Jesus GAVE US the KNOWLEDGE to KNOW WHO He is.
The JEWS knew exactly what Jesus was DOING...forgiving sins, and the Jews wanted to kill Him......BECAUSE He was making Himself GOD, because ONLY God forgives sin.
The Jews wanted to kill Him...BECAUSE He was making Himself GOD, calling Himself THE Son of God.......BECAUSE the Jews KNEW, an eternally being GOD, can not have “eternal” being OFFSPRING...
(Ie procreate offspring)......But Jesus wasn’t procreated.....He CAME OUT FROM GOD, IS GOD.......and Jews wanted to Kill Him for claiming He was God, BY the things HE DID SAY.....THAT ONLY APPLIED TO God.
Had he flat out SAID.......I AM GOD......who would believe Him?
God IS INVISIBLE to human mans eyes....AND SHOULD a human man gaze upon God, that man would incinerate.
THAT didn’t HAPPEN...Men LOOKED upon Jesus, and DIDN”T DIE...
Thus the Jews thought Him a FRAUD....but still wanted Him DEAD, for the Claims He made...the Things He did........
And Him FORGIVING SIN, was a MAJOR reason the Jews wanted Him Dead.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Yes....and IF the whole world was NOT going in circles OVER the ...
Race...Jew/Gentile
Religions...Multiple
FOR centuries...
The Whole world (for centuries) instead be PAYING attention TO the Handful of men in the backroom foot-soldiering with Satan, PREPARING Satan’s “climate change” ——> NWO, great RE-SET... have done what they DO now, go on their about business in their little plot of land, and say oh crap, when the armed govy shows up.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
In the beginning, God created one Man: only the one. From thence came
everybody; including the one Man's wife. She was constructed with material
taken from the one Man's body
There's approximately 7.92 Billion people on today's Earth. They are all the
one Man because God created no other, viz: all those billions of people are
made from that one Man.
So, I could pen a human Shema that says:
Hear, O Israel: Adam our ancestor is one Adam.
Would that be true? Yes, because those Billions were made from his body,
viz: there aren't 7.92B different Adams on Earth, there's only the one.
So then, even if God were to produce 12 sons, He wouldn't be producing 12
Gods, no, He'd be producing more of Himself; and the real Shema would
remain 100% intact.
"Hear O Isreal: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah."
_
In the beginning, God created one Man: only the one. From thence came
everybody; including the one Man's wife. She was constructed with material
taken from the one Man's body
There's approximately 7.92 Billion people on today's Earth. They are all the
one Man because God created no other, viz: all those billions of people are
made from that one Man.
So, I could pen a human Shema that says:
Hear, O Israel: Adam our ancestor is one Adam.
Would that be true? Yes, because those Billions were made from his body,
viz: there aren't 7.92B different Adams on Earth, there's only the one.
So then, even if God were to produce 12 sons, He wouldn't be producing 12
Gods, no, He'd be producing more of Himself; and the real Shema would
remain 100% intact.
"Hear O Isreal: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah."
_
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