Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?
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Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?
The way some Christians talk about God, you would think so.
They tell us we are unacceptable to God. That it is only with great difficulty that God loves and tolerates us.
The image of a God that is disappointed with us, because we don't measure up. Shakes His head when he sees us.
An unreasonable expectation that we can never meet. Not accepted for who we are, or where we are at.
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This is not what I see in God. I see a loving heavenly Father.
His kids are always welcome in his lap. He's intensely interested in them.
He puts everything aside to listen to them. He glories in their presence.
Can hardly wait to see them again when they return. Delights in them.
There is a line down the center of this post, Which side of the line are you on? Top, or bottom?
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BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
We are all that God made us to be. He is Sovereign over his creation. He is Omnipotent.
He is Omniscient.
And when we get to Heaven ,for all eternity, He tells us we will worship him.Praise him. Essentially,reiterate to God that He is God.
Whatever happens from the dawn of creation unto its end, it is all God all the time.
We have no power save for belief.
We so often say,God is in control. Then,we sometimes argue that can't be so Because we can't face What's coming.
We even obsess over God having Predestined all things according to His will and plan. As He tells us in His own Ephesians 1:11 et al.
Obviously, God's word being largely prophecy,which is informing us of His plans ahead of time, is also ignored.
God's name is not Calvin.
God is all mighty. He does as He wishes with his creation. We are here for the ride. Real faith, is holding on and trusting all will work out for the best.
He is Omniscient.
And when we get to Heaven ,for all eternity, He tells us we will worship him.Praise him. Essentially,reiterate to God that He is God.
Whatever happens from the dawn of creation unto its end, it is all God all the time.
We have no power save for belief.
We so often say,God is in control. Then,we sometimes argue that can't be so Because we can't face What's coming.
We even obsess over God having Predestined all things according to His will and plan. As He tells us in His own Ephesians 1:11 et al.
Obviously, God's word being largely prophecy,which is informing us of His plans ahead of time, is also ignored.
God's name is not Calvin.
God is all mighty. He does as He wishes with his creation. We are here for the ride. Real faith, is holding on and trusting all will work out for the best.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?
Dying for another tells the story!
Does God care more for himself than he cares for us?
The way some Christians talk about God, you would think so.
They tell us we are unacceptable to God. That it is only with great difficulty that God loves and tolerates us.
The image of a God that is disappointed with us, because we don't measure up. Shakes His head when he sees us.
An unreasonable expectation that we can never meet. Not accepted for who we are, or where we are at.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is not what I see in God. I see a loving heavenly Father.
His kids are always welcome in his lap. He's intensely interested in them.
He puts everything aside to listen to them. He glories in their presence.
Can hardly wait to see them again when they return. Delights in them.
There is a line down the center of this post,
Which side of the line are you on? Top, or bottom?
/
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
The story of the Prodigal Son is crafted by Jesus to show us the nature of his Father. I think we all need to reread the story regularly because our own propensity for revenge/ payback is part of our sinfulness. We euphemistically call it 'justice' and have the audacity to superimpose this type of justice onto God insisting he operates in the same way we do.
Great post, thanks.
Our own evil desire for revenge clouds our view of the character of God in this regard.
What is it in us that wants to see revenge? We whitewash it by calling it justice.
Hangings us to be public. Folks would stay all day to watch. (entertainment) Sick.
From which we get the saying, "We stayed around until the last dog was hung,"
That's how we end up with the Janus-faced God of Christian theology.
Love and justice, the two sided coin. Flip the coin and see what you get.
/
Agree.
Right.
Our own evil desire for revenge clouds our view of the character of God in this regard.
What is it in us that wants to see revenge? We whitewash it by calling it justice.
Hangings us to be public. Folks would stay all day to watch. (entertainment) Sick.
From which we get the saying, "We stayed around until the last dog was hung,"
Exactly.
That's how we end up with the Janus-faced God of Christian theology.
Love and justice, the two sided coin. Flip the coin and see what you get.
/
Funny thing is...
If you get justice, that's not love.
And if you get love, that's not justice.
/
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Blame the English teachers. The word justice has changed meaning so much that it now means precisely the opposite of what it used to.
The Hebrew and Greek words that are translated 'justice' in most Bibles actually mean 'righteousness' and 'to judge in favor of someone.' In the 17th-18th centuries, English 'justice' was a fair translation of those ideas. It was about acquittal.
But now we associate justice with judgment against someone - condemnation, their just desserts. The literal polar opposite of acquittal.
Wow. Thanks.
That's a game changer.
Do you have any resources that explain this?
/ cc: @quietthinker @Lambano @Hillsage @amadeus @O'Darby @BarneyFife @RedFan @Berserk @Azim
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FWIW, here's a pretty good discussion:
Justice: Hiding in Translation — God Loves Justice
When I first started studying what the Bible said about justice topics, I thought I knew exactly how to find them: search for the word “justice.” But there’s a problem with looking for justice in the New Testament. If you type “justice” into a Bible word search engine, it doesn’t appear much. “Justi
www.godlovesjustice.com
I don't see the "acquittal" aspect.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
God's justice is liberation. Our 'justice' is payback/ revenge.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Resources... not anymore. I used to have a sermon on this, and a .doc of a word study contrasting words for judgment (מִשְׁפָּט /κρίμα) and justice (צְדָקָה/δικαιοσύνη). The PC those were on died and I don't even know where the thumb drive I put that stuff on is at. Have no plans to preach in the future either, so I won't be looking for it.
There's a phrase used frequently throughout the Old Testament... let me find an example...
Jer 23:5
...execute judgment and justice in the earth.
וְעָשָׂה מִשְׁפָּט וּצְדָקָה בָּאָרֶץ׃
καὶ ποιήσει κρίμα καὶ δικαιοσύνην ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς
So if you were to go look up all the places this phrase occurs like this, you'd find that it has to do with acting as a judge in ancient Israel. When the two parties come before you, one of them is condemned and one is justified - the guilty party receives mishpat-judgment (his legal sentence, usually restitution plus damages) and the other party is declared tsadiq-just.
So to follow the Old Testament usage, to talk about God's justice is talking about ruling in somone's favor. Finally, this is a much more important subject in Judaism than Christianity (and better understood there). You might try reading some rabbis on the topic of judgment & justice.
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
It's an interesting article.FWIW, here's a pretty good discussion:
Justice: Hiding in Translation — God Loves Justice
When I first started studying what the Bible said about justice topics, I thought I knew exactly how to find them: search for the word “justice.” But there’s a problem with looking for justice in the New Testament. If you type “justice” into a Bible word search engine, it doesn’t appear much. “Justi
I don't see the "acquittal" aspect.
Something it brings up that I had forgotten... the New Testament translates κρίμα as "justice" while the Old Testament (LXX) has that word down as "judgment."
This is an example of the biggest problem of the King James Bible - its OT translators didn't talk to its NT translators in order to normalize word usage in the two Testaments. In a word-for-word translation, that should have happened.
Thanks for your thoughtful and detailed replies.
Bible readers forget that mercy is always an option. Especially when the debt has already been paid.
What do you know about the use of the word "judgment" in the New Testament?
I need to check out the link that @O'Darby provided too.
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I think this sheds a light on God's love and justice that doesn't destroy his character. Why I was interested.
This does address the problem I see all the time. The assumption that judgment = punishment.
Bible readers forget that mercy is always an option. Especially when the debt has already been paid.
What do you know about the use of the word "judgment" in the New Testament?
I need to check out the link that @O'Darby provided too.
/
Wick Stick
Well-Known Member
Definitely not. Mercy is for the condemned. The justified do not need mercy - they have been judged to be in the right.
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