Doctrinolatry - tribalism and division in the Body of Christ

[One 2 question]

I would disagree with God designing and imagining Satan and his fallen as an opposing force as much as God knew it would happen and allowed it to play out His purposes.

Isn't it great to know that God has a long term plan for all His creations. That we, in this material creation have an impact on the invisible creation. To what degree only God knows. But like the designer of a computer game, God has designed opposing forces to engage the players, to keep them coming back to face new levels with its new challenges and experience new advancements. The thrill of the chase, the thrill of a win makes certain games irresistible and addictive.

God invited Satan and His angels to engage with His game on earth. I believe they are fully engaged and addicted to it. They win enough to keep them involved but we know that they will never get to the end having conquered every stage.

The introduction and existence of good and evil are very much a part of the Designer's overall plan as a means of generating glory and pleasure to the Grand Creators.

If only we could suspend judgement and patiently wait for the unfolding of Their grand plan.

Sometimes I fall back into my old way of thinking that God has made a mistake. But it's more about God not fulfilling my plans, desires, will, hopes, dreams, goals.

His plans are perfectly designed to achieve Their goal of generating never ending glory and pleasure for Themselves.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Isn't it great to know that God has a long term plan for all His creations. That we, in this material creation have an impact on the invisible creation. To what degree only God knows. But like the designer of a computer game, God has designed opposing forces to engage the players, to keep them coming back to face new levels with its new challenges and experience new advancements. The thrill of the chase, the thrill of a win makes certain games irresistible and addictive.

God invited Satan and His angels to engage with His game on earth. I believe they are fully engaged and addicted to it. They win enough to keep them involved but we know that they will never get to the end having conquered every stage.

The introduction and existence of good and evil are very much a part of the Designer's overall plan as a means of generating glory and pleasure to the Grand Creators.

If only we could suspend judgement and patiently wait for the unfolding of Their grand plan.

Sometimes I fall back into my old way of thinking that God has made a mistake. But it's more about God not fulfilling my plans, desires, will, hopes, dreams, goals.

His plans are perfectly designed to achieve Their goal of generating never ending glory and pleasure for Themselves.

Sorry god allowed evil, but did not design the evil He foreknew.

James 1:13-17

King James Version

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13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

1 John 1:5

King James Version

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5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

 

[One 2 question]

Sorry god allowed evil, but did not design the evil He foreknew.

James 1:13-17​

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King James Version​

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13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

1 John 1:5​

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King James Version​

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5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[One 2 question]

Sorry god allowed evil, but did not design the evil He foreknew.

We have the story of this creation where God tempted Adam. God purposely put a tree of temptation in the middle of Adams home, the garden of Eden. Then God took someone from His former creation and put him into this new creation. Satan was introduced to earth by God. Then God left them to it for most of the day.

Was God that short sighted that He couldn't see what was about to happen? We know that putting a hungry fully grown lion in an enclosed sheep pen with a young lamb has only one outcome.

God tempts that's for sure. Read he story of Job.

Read the story of Jesus after his baptism. God sent His Spirit to come upon Jesus. Immediately this Spirit from God led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan. God's Spirit leads into temptation.
In fact Jesus, after His Father led Him into temptation said to His disciples. When you pray say, Our Father in heaven....lead us not into temptation. Why should we ask Father not to do something He can't or will not do? Of course God leads people into temptation. The all knowing God knows full well what His creations will do given certain conditions. Put Satan the hungry lion and Jesus a weakened young lamb together, I think even we know what's going to happen.

God tempts, God delivers. God tempts, God makes a way of escape. God does as He pleases.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Now do a word study and keep it in its immediate context.

peace=salom =

1. completeness, soundness, welfare, peace
   1. completeness (in number)
   2. safety, soundness (in body)
   3. welfare, health, prosperity
   4. peace, quiet, tranquillity, contentment
   5. peace, friendship
      1. of human relationships
      2. with God especially in covenant relationship
   6. peace (from war)
   7. peace (as adjective)

evil= ra it is a masculine adjective for a masculine noun so tis meaning is=
evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity

1. evil, distress, adversity
2. evil, injury, wrong
3. evil (ethical)

It has to be set in contrast with peace (not holiness) so it is adversity either in personal relations, or war or things like famine drought etc.

God did not create Lucifer to be evil, but allowed him to make that choice. God does not create evil 9the opposite of holy)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

We have the story of this creation where God tempted Adam. God purposely put a tree of temptation in the middle of Adams home, the garden of Eden. Then God took someone from His former creation and put him into this new creation. Satan was introduced to earth by God. Then God left them to it for most of the day.

You are using the wrong word. It was not a temptation, but a test. satan was the one who tempted. Gt your words correct.

God knew Adam and Eve would fall, but He did not coerce them to or force them to, He just knew they would. It was all part of His plan and teh counsel of the trinity in eternity past. That is far above all peoples pay grade and ability to wrap our pea brains around.

 

[St. SteVen]

God did not create Lucifer to be evil, but allowed him to make that choice. God does not create evil 9the opposite of holy)

Should not sovereignty come with responsibility?

For instance, if a highway engineer, created an intersection traffic light that displayed a green light (go signal)
for all approaching cars that ended in a deadly accident trap, who would be responsible?
- The automobile drivers that collided with one another?
- The crew that set the equipment in place? (who objected when the equipment test failed)
- The engineer that designed the intersection signal?

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[Ronald Nolette]

Should not sovereignty come with responsibility?

For instance, if a highway engineer, created an intersection traffic light that displayed a green light (go signal)
for all approaching cars that ended in a deadly accident trap, who would be responsible?
- The automobile drivers that collided with one another?
- The crew that set the equipment in place? (who objected when the equipment test failed)
- The engineer that designed the intersection signal?

[

False analogy.

God did not create a flawed system. The bible clearly says that. Satan fell sometime after the creation was complete. God gave Adam and Eve free will to choose to obey or disobey. They chose- not god for them.

 

[One 2 question]

False analogy.

God did not create a flawed system. The bible clearly says that. Satan fell sometime after the creation was complete. God gave Adam and Eve free will to choose to obey or disobey. They chose- not god for them.

The Creators created what They created and it either was made with the ability to become flawed or it didn't. We know now that They made it so it could become flawed. Some believe They made it so it would become flawed so They could fix it and restore it.

Should've They started again and remove Their creations potential to become flawed? Everything would be far better off if They did.

Anyway, it is what it is by Their design and for Their purpose. Glory to Them Who do all things according to the council of Their own will.

 

[St. SteVen]

False analogy.

Not really.

God did not create a flawed system. The bible clearly says that. Satan fell sometime after the creation was complete. God gave Adam and Eve free will to choose to obey or disobey. They chose- not god for them.

That means Satan fell due to the completed creation. Like the cars in the intersection.

This topic asks the question.

Why was "the Tree" placed in the center of the garden (orchard)

The forbidden tree placed where it had to be confronted often. Why was the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil placed in the center (midst) of the orchard (garden) of Eden? Interestingly, Adam and Eve had to be deceived to "eat thereof". It seems they had no intention of eating from the...

www.christianityboard.com

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[One 2 question]

You are using the wrong word. It was not a temptation, but a test. satan was the one who tempted. Gt your words correct.

The same word means test and tempt. As with Jesus being tested by Satan in the wilderness and the Spirit of God leading Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan.

pi-rad'-zo

From G3984; to test (objectively), that is, endeavor, scrutinize, entice, discipline: - assay, examine, go about, prove, tempt (-er), try.

God knew Adam and Eve would fall, but He did not coerce them to or force them to, He just knew they would.

Their Creators knew that Adam would listen to his wife, his wife would be tempted/tested by the serpent, the serpent would use the tree of knowledge and knew Hitler would rise up and kill all those Jews.

It was all part of His plan and teh counsel of the trinity in eternity past. That is far above all peoples pay grade and ability to wrap our pea brains around.

Not any more my friend. We now can know as we have the mind of Christ and the Spirit of Christ. We have been elevated from servants to friends of Christ.
I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. Jn 15:15

 

[Rockerduck]

God planned divisions for an unknown purpose for us. There is a plan for defeating the Devil, who is smarter than us. Certainly, part of this plan is for His people to find common ground in Christ Jesus Himself, who took away our sins. All divisions uniting together defeats Satan, who cannot break the divide.

 

[St. SteVen]

All divisions uniting together defeats Satan, who cannot break the divide.

Could you unpack that a bit? I'm not sure what that means. Thanks.

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[Rockerduck]

Could you unpack that a bit? I'm not sure what that means. Thanks.

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Sure, Armenians and Calvinists are divided, but agree on the Salvation from the crucified, resurrected, and glorified Jesus. Liberals and conservatives have always existed but have existed together most of the time. God created both sides, but we can unite with Jesus. The common enemy of both sides is Satan. When we all, Universalist, Armenians, and Calvinists come together in Christ, we defeat divisions and Satan's temptation. You see, we don't know Gods plan, but we know we are united in Christ Jesus, which is God's plan, at least in part.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Creators created what They created and it either was made with the ability to become flawed or it didn't. We know now that They made it so it could become flawed. Some believe They made it so it would become flawed so They could fix it and restore it.

Should've They started again and remove Their creations potential to become flawed? Everything would be far better off if They did.

Anyway, it is what it is by Their design and for Their purpose. Glory to Them Who do all things according to the council of Their own will.

Well Gods word said when god was finished creating, He called it all very good!

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Those who believed God designed it to fail deny what god said about Creation. If He designed it to fail- it was not very good. He designed the angels and men with the ability to rebel, but did not nor would not design them to intentionally fail.

 

[Behold]

Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may be the only way to prevent division.

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Paul says that the way to stop division is to learn "sound doctrine", and only teach that, and only believe it.

1.) Paul's.

As then all have the "same mind"..

So, when you say that "let everyone just believe what they want"... then you are stating that "truth is relative", and the word of God is "Opinion" and in your case, you prove this with every Thread, and point of view. @St. SteVen .

Division is caused on forums, by people like you, who have no sound theological faith foundation other than "my opinion is my God", so, "anything goes, noone is correct, and the bible is error filled".

Try to understand that opinion, is often the enemy of Truth.
Opinion is like free will...it will cut you and harm you, if you dont understand how to use it wisely.

Find The Truth here.... John 14:6

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic:

Ripped and Torn - What pages have you torn out of your Bible?

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[Eternally Grateful]

A follow-up to my Bibliolatry topic.

Doctrine becomes an idol when it is used to support tribalism and cause division in the Body of Christ.

Since doctrinal unity is impossible, allowing others to hold their own doctrinal opinions may be the only way to prevent division.

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Sadly there are just some doctrines that tear the christian faith apart.

they do not even allow certain things into the church in the NT, why should we do it in the church

We can not just allow any belief to enter into our walls

Noe as far as denominations go. Most denominations do not differ so much on doctrine as it does on how they play church.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Good question.
No, everyone should speak out. But we need to be more tolerant of each other. Our reaction is the problem/solution. IMHO

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it goes both ways though

One side attacks another side..

then on the other hand, a person is so offended that someone disagrees with somethign they said. They they go on the attack against the person who disagrees with them

You can not fight one and not fight the other.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

A religious cult is easy to identify. They meet in the church across the street from your church. And they feel the same way about you.

Where does that get us? Tribe against tribe.

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You must not get out much. Churches where I have been (and I have been to churches all over the country) do not normally act this way. Many churches I have been to actually invite other churches to organized events, and are united on the mission.