Do you believe in a passive God?

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Wick Stick

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>> Salvation cannot be attained before death, so the idea that salvation can be "lost" is wrong-headed. You cannot lose what you do not yet have.

Not so. Paul wrote to Christians:

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,” (Eph 2:8 NKJV)
Yes, so. In context, Ephesians 2 refers to the regeneration of those in the Ephesian church - the time at which they first believed. It calls them "dead" in a metaphorical sense.

That isn't what the original post here is talking about. It's talking about the final resurrection to eternal life, which cannot happen until one is dead in the literal sense.

You have confused the beginning of the Way with the end of the Way. (You should blame the translator, they really made it difficult in this chapter)
 

TheOneHeLoves

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I believe that God is exactly who He says He is. He is slow to anger but does not let sin go unpunished. He decided when and how to execute the consequences. Sometimes it may seems quick and other times it may be a long time. But He is Judge and gets to decide based on what HE knows. We don't see but a speck of anything.
 

dremnant

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Based on the replies here so far, it appears I won't have to expound on this topic that much. It's totally different from many I encounter in person.

There is this group which proclaim a so-called doctrine of "faith alone", and believe they can happily continue in whatever sin they have been engaged in prior to accepting the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

They condemn Christians who have changed from their sinful ways, because they claim it's basically trying to add to the works done by Christ. Even if you are very thankful or love God so much, this group will condemn you for attempting to do any good.

If I didn't hear one of their pastors person-to-person myself, I would probably think they were not for real. They condemn Christians whose lives were changed by the Holy Spirit of God. Their go-to verse is Matthew 7:21 against believers who lives a new life for Christ.

They don't believe in fruits of the Spirit, walking in the Spirit (Galatians 5), or new creature (2 Corinthians 5) the way most Christians do. I can't remember exactly their interpretation is, but it's twisted.

The first time they caught my attention was when I heard one of their teachers (Bob Wilkins) on radio saying it's OK for a Christian to go to a mosque to worship Allah.

This group is the extreme opposite of those who believe in salvation by faith plus works. They both do not believe God intervenes in the lives of His children.
 

David Lamb

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God saves believers in Christ. If you do not believe, unbelief, you will not inherit God's promises. Just like it says, they could not enter into the land because of unbelief.

People cannot enter into the kingdom if they do not believe. Unbelief does not please God, unbelief brings anger then wrath.

And the resurrection to come is of the wicked and good, both are resurrected at the same time, but they have different destinies.

Salvation is both now and later on. Couple examples

John 5

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

Hebrews 9
27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

1 Peter 1

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Praise to God for a Living Hope​

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

Hebrews 3

1 Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest. 2 He was faithful to the one who appointed him, just as Moses was faithful in all God’s house. 3 Jesus has been found worthy of greater honor than Moses, just as the builder of a house has greater honor than the house itself. 4 For every house is built by someone, but God is the builder of everything. 5 “Moses was faithful as a servant in all God’s house,”[a] bearing witness to what would be spoken by God in the future. 6 But Christ is faithful as the Son over God’s house. And we are his house, if indeed we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope in which we glory.

Warning Against Unbelief​

7 So, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
8 do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion,
during the time of testing in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested and tried me,
though for forty years they saw what I did.
10 That is why I was angry with that generation;
I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray,
and they have not known my ways.’
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”[b]

12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”[c]



16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
Yes, I agree. What is the phrase? "Already but not yet," or something similar, referring to the factr that yes, we are already saved, but the full consummation of our salvation does not happen until we get to heaven.
 
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Wrangler

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Do you believe in a passive God? ...or do you believe God is active in your life?
Both are true.

God is generally passive. We know this because of the rarity of miracles. During Creation, he set the laws of the physical universe up and pretty much leaves it alone.

Yet, God is somewhat active in my life. He's not as active in my life as with each beat of my heart but he makes his intent for my life apparent over time. In 2023, there were 2 miracles in my church. Something to write home about.
 

soberxp

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Both are true.

God is generally passive. We know this because of the rarity of miracles. During Creation, he set the laws of the physical universe up and pretty much leaves it alone.

Yet, God is somewhat active in my life. He's not as active in my life as with each beat of my heart but he makes his intent for my life apparent over time. In 2023, there were 2 miracles in my church. Something to write home about.
Miracles should walk with God's word.

Blessing and Love.
 

Ritajanice

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My “Miracle”.....was becoming Born Again, by the Living Spirit Of God......Praise His Holy Name.....I remember it, like it only happened yesterday.

When the Spirit testifies Of God....there is NO mistaking that voice.....it’s so POWERFUL it blew my mind and still does...33 years and counting, going from strength to strength, in Jesus Name!

All Glory, Honour and Praise, goes to Father God for sending Jesus to the cross....our only way back to God.

JESUS is HIS NAME!
 
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Scott Downey

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Yes, I agree. What is the phrase? "Already but not yet," or something similar, referring to the factr that yes, we are already saved, but the full consummation of our salvation does not happen until we get to heaven.
God already knows the end from the beginning, but we do not.
Jesus the author and finisher of our faith, who came from God's says this
that all God's works were finished from the foundation of the world.
That is truly amazing when you think about the consequences.
**********************************************************************
John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

Acts 15:18 [e]“Known to God from eternity are all His works.
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Ephesians 1
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Redemption in Christ​

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and [b]prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, [c]both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
*****************************************************************
Philippians 1

27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God. 29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.
****************************************************************
John 6

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more.

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Hebrews 4
Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, [a]not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:

“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; 5 and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if [b]Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

The Word Discovers Our Condition​

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
 

dremnant

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God is generally passive. We know this because of the rarity of miracles. During Creation, he set the laws of the physical universe up and pretty much leaves it alone.
You're mixing up God's treatment of His people with how He treats nature. Yes it is generally a passive treatment when it comes to nature and the cosmos.

And just because the miracles don't usually happen in a manner you can personally observe...does not mean it happens rarely.
 
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marks

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You're mixing up God's treatment of His people with how He treats nature. Yes it is generally a passive treatment when it comes to nature and the cosmos.

And just because the miracles don't usually happen in a manner you can personally observe...does not mean it happens rarely.
Psalms 104:21-22 KJV
21) The young lions roar after their prey, and seek their meat from God.
22) The sun ariseth, they gather themselves together, and lay them down in their dens.

Matthew 10:29 KJV
Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

I'm seeing that God is personally involved with His creation.

The very existence of this cosmos is an ongoing miracle, a gift of common grace. And no one has any idea, in my opinion, of how many miracles God performs for us continually. Things that happen, or don't happen, and we take it for granted, not realizing that God reversed nature to care for our need.

Much love!
 
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dremnant

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You were not there when God saved me from a mad dog coming to attack me and instantly made the dog scared and running away whimpering...

You were not there when God temporarily gave me authority to cast away demons from the bodies of 2 young women...

You were not there when God stopped me to prevent me from getting hit by a speeding vehicle...

You were not there when God prevented a wicked person from murdering me while I was asleep...

You were not there when God showed me in a dream a terrible disaster, less than 48 hours before it happened...

You were not there when God showed me I was guilty of the same sin I criticized a certain person of...

You were not there when God rescued me from a financial trouble I was sure I would not be able to escape...

You were not there when God showed me how a religious leader lied to his church about the real purpose of his church officer appointments...

You were not there when God started giving me understanding of the Scriptures, when I admitted to Him I'm unable to without His help...

You were not there...
 
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