Do I Have To Go To Church?

[Naomi25]

"Protestant ecclesia" was the limitation, why only them iow (i think is what i had in mind then anyway)

As is the case so often with you, the conversation has led to circles within circles. The intent was never to place limitations, but to describe my field of experience, which you wanted me to define, but that, apparently, placed limitations within, or without, that definition. No. Not my intent, not needed in my opinion.

ah, none that i can recall. Funny, i get that a lot, apparently i am giving that impression? I cant think of a denomination that i did not learn some valuable concept at tbh. So, loved them all, wouldnt go back to any of them, except to visit maybe, chiefly bc they were all cult of sol, all in homo genized agreement on the one thing that is not true, imo

If you have not have bad experiences, yet call 'most' of the forefathers and the teachings/traditions we regard from them "wolves", don't you think that is at best disingenuous and at least false testimony?
And, once again, you accuse orthodox Christianity of being pagan without anything but your say so as proof.

man, youre such a sweet heart to still be speaking in satans dialectic imo...
In the beginining was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God, Naomi
and black will become white in Scripture when you learn the naive dialectic, eat the hidden manna, stop eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge, stop saying you know, become like a little child, however you want to put it, imo.

Oh yes, That's right! I am such a 'sweet' (read stupid) naive person. I absolutely regard the bible as god incarnate. I bow before it at night, and sing songs to it, and ask it to give me great wealth!
Right.
But you know what I find equally ridiculous bbyrd? The notion that 'god' can be 'whispering in the spirit' to thousands of different people all at the same time, all absolutely contrary things, and we're supposed to just nod like lemmings and believe that that is rational. But hey...for someone like you who believe truth is just a puff of fluff that is totally subjective and meaningless, I suppose rationality is overrated, isn't it?
But whatever. As long as people like you mock the bible and where it came from and therefore the weight behind it's words, it allows you to disregard what it says or twist its words. As we have daily proof. The penalty of that will not be upon me. So mock away.

So i would at least reflect on the possibility that the Bible is not Word, mainly so that a better def of Word might manifest when you seek it--bc if you already "know" what Word is you by def are not seeking a better def right--and expect the naive dialect to change virtually every understanding of every passage that you currently have. Imo you owe it to yourself to prove from Scripture that Bible is Word, and when you cant, to face the implications, or, if you can, then post it and lets see

Now...I know you're smart enough to get the distinction between The Word (capitals)...as in John 1:1, and then, the written word. Yeah? Christ is the active, living Word.
The bible is God's letter to us.
Words can have 2 outcomes. One can be active, powerful, authoritative. Like, for example, the decree of a King. When he "speaks" in his official 'voice', people must act, things must get done as the King has demanded. With Christ, it is like this. God speaks, Christ is that action, he is the Word in action, in power.
Words can also just be about information, about recording, about communication. Letters, history, stories, poems. The bible holds all of these. From God, to us.
And since they are from God to us, that makes them important, wouldn't you say? Or don't you think what God wants to tell us about history is important? What he wants to write to us, his wisdom to us? Only a fool would believe so.

ah, in my understanding a "service" is...um what the "Good" (Why do you call Me good?) Samaritan did for the guy in the ditch (who is surely a "saved" person who believes that some "others" are going to hell {if you dig a ditch for others...} while they goto heaven, essentially), so both "worship" and "service" are not pertinent, but "love feast" should be.

Except, you call everything I list as a 'service', which includes singing, worship, teaching and prayer, as a "love feast"...so once again you are doing your circles within circles. Which makes this conversation what...? Pointless?

But would i want to congregate to discuss social issues? Um, doesnt strike me as what would be done at "love feasts," but im just realizing that i havent really formulated a very good def of that yet, esp for back then (why dont you eat at home?), so i would guess "no" but idk.

"Discussing social issues" is bugging me...it is absent i guess is why lol, yeh. hmm. What issues? There are issues? Ha but you just are not going to like any of my responses after you name some "issues" either...bc there arent any issues, Naomi. Ha i know that sounds weird but there just arent. Plenty of perceived issues i guess

Except the issues that you yourself have bought up, right? The ones you think 'normal' church services are missing, right? Like care of the orphans and widows? How about those?
Your inconsistencies are as big as a barn.

ppl who plead the blood or believe that Jesus died for their sins are Esau

Like Esau. The one whom God hated? You're saying that the bible teaches that those under the blood of Christ...those under grace and love, are the same as the one God 'hated'?
You're just one bizarre little cookie, aren't you?

 

[marksman]

I would say that when one is Truly born again of the Holy Spirit then you do not have to go to a Church, did Paul go to a Church to learn after he was Born again.
What is the Church going to teach of such a one who is Truly born again. God will instruct such a one, for such is abiding in him.

You may have set the cat amongst the pigeons as Paul I believe spent several years in the wilderness learning what he needed to learn from God on his own. He didn't "join up" or become a "member" of the church until that had happened. That is probably why God used him to write so much of the New Testament because he had his information straight from the horse's mouth so to speak and God wanted to convey his "rules and regulations" to the fledgling church. Very wise on God's part especially as we have a church (churches) that pick and choose today what they will or will not believe or do.

I have spoken to denominational leaders about some of their beliefs and how they contrast with what the bible says and the reply on every occasion was "Yes but..." In other words "We know that but we prefer the doctrine of the denomination to what the bible teaches." And we wonder why we have not seen the second coming of Christ.

One Baptist church I tried to be part of was a basket case. You had to be a bona fide member to take part in anything, and you could not be a bona fide member until you signed the pledge. They gave me a booklet that set the rules for membership which I had to agree to. I told them that I did not agree with membership as I was already a member through the blood of Jesus but I said I would go through the ritual to please them. I read it and found 31 demands that were not in scripture. Nuf zed.

 

[Naomi25]

well, bc Christ is quite possibly going to appear in a flash, in the clouds...i mean only Yah knows when, right, narf, but only maybe not near as literally as most ppl hope, as other Scripture makes pretty plain; or at least makes easier to connect.
I will never leave you nor forsake you
that they may be one as we are one
and all that, ten more spring to mind immediately

If you think there are biblical verses that prove Christ isn't going to appear literally, you ought to provide them, rather than just assuming your say so is authority enough.
The problem with just tossing out the two you have is that any decent exegete can come along with a couple of other passages and prove that they're speaking about something else.
For example: You cite "I will never leave you nor forsake you". And you do so in an attempt to prove that Christ remains with us and therefore will not 'return'. However, when we look at the whole of scripture, we see:

No man shall be able to stand before you all the days of your life. Just as I was with Moses, so I will be with you. I will not leave you or forsake you. -Joshua 1:5

A promise before Christ even comes that God will be with us and not forsake us. Therefore we know that God can be 'with us' without Christ's physical presence.

We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair;persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; -2 Corinthians 4:8–9

Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.” So we can confidently say,
“The Lord is my helper;
I will not fear;
what can man do to me?” -Hebrews 13:5–6

These verses speak to Christians being supported by God in times of hardship...of not being 'forsaken'. Indeed, Hebrews says that the Lord is our "helper". This is an important point.

And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, -John 14:16

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. -John 14:26

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.- John 15:26

Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. -John 16:7

These verses make it startling obvious: Christ is going physically, but when he does, he is sending the Spirit. The Spirit, we know, dwells within us. As part of the Godhead, the Spirit is one, just as the Father and Son are one. In this way Christ was able to say he would be with us forever. He is. Just not physically. This, then, makes the promises of his second coming more vibrant and startling. Not one we can dismiss as "oh, but he lives among us". The problem with confusing Christ with the Spirit is that we would then have to look at the verses above and say that Christ is being firstly, very disingenuous. Secondly, he has serious identity issues. "First I have to leave so I can come back. Then, when I have come back, I'll will be able to bear witness about me". Right. Thirdly, if Christ really came back, spiritually, we then have to look at his ascension in the beginning of Acts as nothing more than a hide and seek nonsense from his Disciples. He got lifted up physically out of sight. An angel told his Disciples they'd see him return in exactly the same manner...but in reality he just snuck back down and has been skulking around invisibly.
My point being: there are no scriptures to back any of these ridiculous ideas up, and plenty of scriptures to the contrary. Christ ascended and the Spirit became the active member of God here on Earth among God's people. Christ dwells among his people now through the Spirit, just as God has moved among his people throughout all of history through either the Spirit or Christ.

she said, with complete placidity

Really? Talk about character assassination. To start off with, you seemed to have missed the fact that I said "sadly". That would suggest it makes me "sad", not 'placid' about this fact. Secondly, how on earth do you know how it makes me feel that large chunks of the population are not saved? You don't.
But, here's a tip for free. Our feelings don't dictate God's rules.

so you say

Yeah. I do say. But you know what? I'm only repeating it:

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” -Matthew 28:18–20

 

[Naomi25]

um, well, you arent going to like this reply, but bc we are still worshipping Apollos right now, and have not "seen" Christ yet, imo. With the "returning" and the "whisking away" and all that, DMA, etc
View attachment 8752

Yeah. I'm about done with conversation. For the life of me I cannot understand how you have "Christian" on your profile.
But, I'm not going to get through to you, and you sure as heck aren't going to convince me....sorry.

 

[reformed1689]

If there are non Christians present then evangelism is the purpose.

No, it isn't. That is never the primary purpose of the gathering of the saints.

 

[Windmill Charge]

No, it isn't. That is never the primary purpose of the gathering of the saints.

A service can have more than one purpose.

When we meet together we do so to worship our Lord and Saviour, to praise him, to thank him.
We also petition him for those in need both generally as well as indetail.
We meet to learn about God, to be challenged in how we regard God, others, ourselves and our possession.
Non Christian should also be made aware that there is a God, that it is unreasonable not to believe in him and that there are consequence to not believing in him.
We also learn about missionary activity in our area, nationall and internationally and how we can pray for and support in other ways.

Are these all always present? Not in the church I attend, but any elements are.

It was Moody who preached on Hell to a large congragation, closing the service with come back next week to learn how to avoid going to Hell.
That week the Chicago fire destroyed a large part of the town. That congragation never reassembled and he resolved never to preach without also including the gospel.

Your town may not be burnt down, but can you say that a non Christian in this Sunday's service will last to attend the evening service?!
Who is responsible for preaching to that non Christian whether they are a first time visitor or a regular?

 

[reformed1689]

A service can have more than one purpose.

When we meet together we do so to worship our Lord and Saviour, to praise him, to thank him.
We also petition him for those in need both generally as well as indetail.
We meet to learn about God, to be challenged in how we regard God, others, ourselves and our possession.
Non Christian should also be made aware that there is a God, that it is unreasonable not to believe in him and that there are consequence to not believing in him.
We also learn about missionary activity in our area, nationall and internationally and how we can pray for and support in other ways.

Are these all always present? Not in the church I attend, but any elements are.

It was Moody who preached on Hell to a large congragation, closing the service with come back next week to learn how to avoid going to Hell.
That week the Chicago fire destroyed a large part of the town. That congragation never reassembled and he resolved never to preach without also including the gospel.

Your town may not be burnt down, but can you say that a non Christian in this Sunday's service will last to attend the evening service?!
Who is responsible for preaching to that non Christian whether they are a first time visitor or a regular?

You are missing the point completely.

 

[farouk]

It's not a case of "us versus them" in attempting to understand truth and where we find it. It's about looking to scripture and seeing how God defines it.

Exactly; it's a matter of searching the Scriptures prayerfully.

 

[farouk]

Should be called attending the gathering, the ekklesia, the assembly of believers, wherever that may be.

It's what the word means... :)

It has its local and universal aspects, depending on the context of the passage where ecclesia occurs.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I don't believe that we have one true denomination of Church in the World that is worthy of Jesus Christ today at all, they are all a business first and foremost a company that is grovelling to the Government and they do the Governments will. or they will not get their 30 peace's of silver.

Being religious is the problem, every Atheist I know is a radical religious ratbag.
I have even seen such people come into the Church, truly unrepentant ? they have not changed their spots and claim to be a good person in front of all.
Not to mention a Priest claiming that we were all Awesome ! what a goose ! and they get away with this nonsense.

I am going to Church to prove to all that I am a good person oh and remember not to offend anyone with mentioning them words Jesus Christ.
Don't you know that Islam and the Jews and now Christians all worship the same god. yep ! Pope Frances claims it's the same god as he worships, but don't upset him or his followers with what Jesus Christ said, that no one comes to the Father but through who ? so who are they worshiping then ? Idols made by Man, worshiping the Beast. that's Man ! Mans works !

One must be born again Jesus said, to enter into the Kingdom of God. so don't be surprised that outside of that is of Satan abiding in him, for they are truly lost. and boy what a creep show that it truly is. Churches supporting child molesters _O I wash my hands of them, I can't stand them at all.

 

[Cooper]

I don't believe that we have one true denomination of Church in the World that is worthy of Jesus Christ today at all, they are all a business first and foremost a company that is grovelling to the Government and they do the Governments will. or they will not get their 30 peace's of silver.

Being religious is the problem, every Atheist I know is a radical religious ratbag.
I have even seen such people come into the Church, truly unrepentant ? they have not changed their spots and claim to be a good person in front of all.
Not to mention a Priest claiming that we were all Awesome ! what a goose ! and they get away with this nonsense.

I am going to Church to prove to all that I am a good person oh and remember not to offend anyone with mentioning them words Jesus Christ.
Don't you know that Islam and the Jews and now Christians all worship the same god. yep ! Pope Frances claims it's the same god as he worships, but don't upset him or his followers with what Jesus Christ said, that no one comes to the Father but through who ? so who are they worshiping then ? Idols made by Man, worshiping the Beast. that's Man ! Mans works !

One must be born again Jesus said, to enter into the Kingdom of God. so don't be surprised that outside of that is of Satan abiding in him, for they are truly lost. and boy what a creep show that it truly is. Churches supporting child molesters _O I wash my hands of them, I can't stand them at all.

I am glad my father cannot hear you say all pastors are only interested in money. Mine was an ordained minister who paid his own way through Bible College and he lived entirely by faith, supported only by the congregation. I tell you we were as poor as church mice. It was the same for missioneries who were supported by their home church and likewise for my daughters church as well. As for Bible teaching, if he was alive today and knew what is said on the internet, he would be so upset. There are exceptions to the rule you know, but in the main I agree with you, I just don't want people thinking everyone is tarred with the same brush. Overall, I agree with your sentiments. :)
.

 

[farouk]

You are also right in saying the church is not a building, but it is the body of believers. This is the church. We are the church.

e you are a guest, but they probably feel as nervous as you. I know I am not always good at approaching new people because I get a tad nervous!

Hi @shineyourlight The local church is all about Acts 2.42 activities, isn't it? :) continuing steadfastly in the Apostles' doctrine and in fellowship and breaking of bread and prayers.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I am glad my father cannot hear you say all pastors are only interested in money. Mine was an ordained minister who paid his own way through Bible College and he lived entirely by faith, supported only by the congregation. I tell you we were as poor as church mice. It was the same for missioneries who were supported by their home church and likewise for my daughters church as well. As for Bible teaching, if he was alive today and knew what is said on the internet, he would be so upset. There are exceptions to the rule you know, but in the main I agree with you, I just don't want people thinking everyone is tarred with the same brush. Overall, I agree with your sentiments. :)
.

I do believe that their are good honest too God Priest, but what can they do if they are ? this world is of Satan.

I remember Pope John Paul how he sent out letters every 2 weeks to Priest condemning the homosexual Priest hood and the back lash that he got over such from the Priest, boy they hated them letters.

On Idiot RCC Priest I know claimed it was a job ? ! no wonder he is so lost and talked so much rubbish. such people do not serve Jesus Christ at all, and that's the whole problem, they serve the so called Church. no wonder we as Nations are heading for the Hellfire that is to come. Priest rapping children !!! words fail me, I am so upset. it proves what monsters are about in the Church, not to mention how they got away with such things for so long, that really gets on my goat. I am sure many Priest are in fear for their lives too speak out. but I believe they will go to Hell for not standing up and having God as their witness, come hell of high water. We seen what happened to St Stephen when he pointed out the Truth ! but he seen the Heavens open to him.

 

[Cooper]

I do believe that their are good honest too God Priest, but what can they do if they are ? this world is of Satan.

I remember Pope John Paul how he sent out letters every 2 weeks to Priest condemning the homosexual Priest hood and the back lash that he got over such from the Priest, boy they hated them letters.

On Idiot RCC Priest I know claimed it was a job ? ! no wonder he is so lost and talked so much rubbish. such people do not serve Jesus Christ at all, and that's the whole problem, they serve the so called Church. no wonder we as Nations are heading for the Hellfire that is to come. Priest rapping children !!! words fail me, I am so upset. it proves what monsters are about in the Church, not to mention how they got away with such things for so long, that really gets on my goat. I am sure many Priest are in fear for their lives too speak out. but I believe they will go to Hell for not standing up and having God as their witness, come hell of high water. We seen what happened to St Stephen when he pointed out the Truth ! but he seen the Heavens open to him.

You are right, satan is the god of this world. It is so sad. My daughter's neighbour was going to be a Catholic Priest because it was a safe well paid job. That is not the right motive. Anyway he got married instead of living with his housekeeper like they do. That is just one hypocrisy of the Catholic church. Dear me. What a carry on. Instead he took a job as a social worker and married his girl friend. He is a good bloke.
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