Do I Have To Go To Church?

[Naomi25]

to your perception, maybe, but wadr that does not make it so; it merely makes it obvious where your heart is, if you will allow me. We live in a miracle, esp the two of us, and the world is a completely diff place than it was even 100 years ago, when many of those things, your complaints there, were considered completely acceptable? Or at least that nothing could be done about them? Personally i will fear no evil, and i will worry about my sins existing or not, and not so much about others, wadr to them.

i say this bc i notice we read "the world is passing away" and think "Ragnarok" like you do rather than connecting that feeling to our kvetching about yesterday being better than today, although reminiscence and melancholy arent exactly the subjects here, i know. Sin exists, and the world is fine just like it is imo, the poor you will always have with you, yeh?

Forgive me, but any particular news day would prove you wrong. "It's better than it was 100 years ago" may be true. But I'm not sure that comforts the millions who are suffering and dying even now. Platitudes.

So imo if you hate some sin enough, then bam go do something about it, thats how we got to here, right? Whats wrong with that, iyo?

The problem with this statement is...the logical outworking of it. Sure, Christians work again sins all the time. We do our best. But the idea that 'we just need to do more to stamp out all the sin that bothers us' is, in fact, a statement that we ought to be able to do without God. In other words, we can fix sin and don't need God for that. Which is incorrect. So.

heck, i dont have to wonder, you are as much as saying right there that Yah will be respecting the classification of "Christian," right? "Christian good, evryone else, bad?"

By 'Christian' I mean those found IN Christ. Yeah. And its not 'me' saying it, but the bible.

Acts 4:12 “Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

2 Corinthians 5:21 “For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”

John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."

well, so you say, but Scripture does not say so, exactly, and imo for a very good reason. Jesus did not ask Why do you call Me good? No one is good but Yah for nothing, right? We are not told to worship a jealous Yah only for no reason, imo. I say this bc the next step there is to start "worshipping" and even praying to Jesus, iow admitting "Jesus" into your Pantheon, isnt that really whats going on there?

Well, actually, it does.

waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, - Titus 2:13–14

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. -John 1:1,14

But of the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.-Hebrews 1:8

Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” -John 20:28


There are a heap more verses, but you get my point, The bible most certainly DOES tell us that Christ is God. And we see that when Thomas outright called him God, Jesus did not correct him or rebuke him. Jesus IS God. He and the Father are one.

Gehenna is right here on earth i guess, not too interested in any bad interpretations by Anglish scribes, to get to our concept of "hell" tbh. Plus im hearing "forever and ever" in your inferences of "eternal," which is "a space of time" after all, right

see bc if one lives "forever" then they are an "immortal," which is im pretty sure your end goal and current belief? Unless im wrong? Thats really what its all about, right? You going up to heaven; after you have literally died?

so imo i dunno about that, i dont yet know what i will become but as you say that you do, i can on ly suggest a search of "Mithraism and" and let the auto-completes be your guide, Naomi. And maybe have a drink first, and at least be sitting down, knowledge brings sorrow

Wait. How can 'Gehenna' be here on earth if things are 'perfect'? Your world-views are colliding.
Historically, there was a place outside of Jerusalem where all the trash and refuse got dumped. It was constantly kept alight, a noxious burning pit of foul smelling nastiness. Jesus referred to this place as 'Gehenna' and used it as an example when speaking of that terrible place of darkness that people would go in everlasting destruction, of weeping and gnashing teeth.
Look, I don't particularly care if you want to do a word study on 'eternal' or 'forever'. The fact remains that at the close of 'this age', the 'age to come' will unfold. There is plenty of biblical teaching on this fact, regardless on whether you want to argue it will last a single life time or it will go on without end, or even if time will cease. I don't care, those sort of things are semantics that God can take care of. But they are, quite clearly, taught in scripture. Anyone can do a word search for 'this age' and 'the age to come' and 'eternal life' or 'eternal destruction/judgement' and see Christ himself speaks of it enough to have us believing there is something important here. So no...not some pagan 'pick-up'. Scriptural.

 

[Josho]

i might object to ecclesia for similar reasons as i do "church," or ppl saying they are "saved," but i guess that is a personal decision. If one wants to assume they are ekklesia then bam i guess, but i am going to hear "special snowflake" and run myself.

i think Scripture calls what we do "love feasts," and in a quite tic...toungue in cheek manner, "why dont you eat at home?" and all that, but as the pov is not very self-congratulatory nor literal im pretty much keeping that one to myself lol. Imo The Gathering with all of its undertones might do nicely though, yeh :)

Hmm interesting, so if it were to be called "the place of gathering" how can we simplify that? Is there even a way? Haha

 

[shineyourlight]

This is a question I receive a lot, most of the time in good faith, and decided to post a video about it. Anyone have anything to add to the discussion? I'd love to hear from others and their experience with this question.

May the Lord ad His blessing to His Word!

Hi, TheAngelBand!

I definitely hear you about the church hurting other believers. I’ve been a dedicated follower of Christ since 2006. However, I turned back on the church and God six years ago in 2014 after attending a Bible college for youth ministry. I was gone for five years. I rededicated my life a year ago and it has been a growing and lots of healing.

You are also right in saying the church is not a building, but it is the body of believers. This is the church. We are the church.

However, God has really been pressing on me to start going to church. Until a few weeks ago, I have not gone to church because I have been scared and I have been petrified. Getting involved with other Christians is terrifying – but God is leading me and I think what you said is most important: If God is leading you to go to church, go.

This past year, God has been healing, rising me above my hurt, and teaching me I can allow Him to actually heal me because even though he might break me in order to build me up. He has taught me a few valid lessons this year which it has helped me to grow:

- He will bring back seven-fold of what I have lost.

- He will restore what the locusts have eaten

- I must forgive those who have hurt me. It is my responsibility. It was not my responsibility of how they treated me, but it is now mine to forgive.

- Because some people have hurt me from the church, it has NOTHING to do with me, but all to do with THEM. Pray for them.

- Love yourself as I love you.

The last two have been prominent in my life for the past six months. It is important to forgive those people. And if people aren’t approaching you at church, you approach them. Say hi. As awkward as it may seem for you, a simple “Hi” during the time of greeting can make it least awkward. I think we expect too many people to do things for us, that we forget that we can also approach others to say hi. Of course, they should be the ones because you are a guest, but they probably feel as nervous as you. I know I am not always good at approaching new people because I get a tad nervous!

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I would say that when one is Truly born again of the Holy Spirit then you do not have to go to a Church, did Paul go to a Church to learn after he was Born again.
What is the Church going to teach of such a one who is Truly born again. God will instruct such a one, for such is abiding in him.

 

[Josho]

Hi, TheAngelBand!

I definitely hear you about the church hurting other believers. I’ve been a dedicated follower of Christ since 2006. However, I turned back on the church and God six years ago in 2014 after attending a Bible college for youth ministry. I was gone for five years. I rededicated my life a year ago and it has been a growing and lots of healing.

You are also right in saying the church is not a building, but it is the body of believers. This is the church. We are the church.

However, God has really been pressing on me to start going to church. Until a few weeks ago, I have not gone to church because I have been scared and I have been petrified. Getting involved with other Christians is terrifying – but God is leading me and I think what you said is most important: If God is leading you to go to church, go.

This past year, God has been healing, rising me above my hurt, and teaching me I can allow Him to actually heal me because even though he might break me in order to build me up. He has taught me a few valid lessons this year which it has helped me to grow:

- He will bring back seven-fold of what I have lost.

- He will restore what the locusts have eaten

- I must forgive those who have hurt me. It is my responsibility. It was not my responsibility of how they treated me, but it is now mine to forgive.

- Because some people have hurt me from the church, it has NOTHING to do with me, but all to do with THEM. Pray for them.

- Love yourself as I love you.

The last two have been prominent in my life for the past six months. It is important to forgive those people. And if people aren’t approaching you at church, you approach them. Say hi. As awkward as it may seem for you, a simple “Hi” during the time of greeting can make it least awkward. I think we expect too many people to do things for us, that we forget that we can also approach others to say hi. Of course, they should be the ones because you are a guest, but they probably feel as nervous as you. I know I am not always good at approaching new people because I get a tad nervous!

I believe there are seasons and some people maybe in a season when they are not called to go to Church, as in Church building, and then there are people that God is calling to go to Church.

I often joke to my parents that I am called to be a pew seater. Have been involved in worship once though playing the banjo, that was free moving Pentecostal worship though. I have been asked a couple of times if I want to at the Charismatic Anglican church we are currently attending, I have been sort of holding back though, as I just don't think I am really skilled enough. Recently have been operating the media desk though.

As God probably has other plans for me other than just being a pew seater. Haha

Still a great excuse though "I am called to be a pew seater." It's just a joke though.

 

[Josho]

I would say that when one is Truly born again of the Holy Spirit then you do not have to go to a Church, did Paul go to a Church to learn after he was Born again.
What is the Church going to teach of such a one who is Truly born again. God will instruct such a one, for such is abiding in him.

We do not have to go to a Church, but what is a Church going to teach of such a one who is truly born again?

Well a truly born again person does not know everything about the Bible, and we often have to be reminded, and we sometimes might miss what God is actually saying. That's just a reason why we are the body of Christ.

 

[bbyrd009]

So, I wouldn't say that there are any self-imposed limitations

"Protestant ecclesia" was the limitation, why only them iow (i think is what i had in mind then anyway)

Sorry if you had some bad experiences.

ah, none that i can recall. Funny, i get that a lot, apparently i am giving that impression? I cant think of a denomination that i did not learn some valuable concept at tbh. So, loved them all, wouldnt go back to any of them, except to visit maybe, chiefly bc they were all cult of sol, all in homo
genized agreement on the one thing that is not true, imo

That's one of the strongest arguments for always bringing it back to the bible, which is God's word which does not change.

man, youre such a sweet heart to still be speaking in satans dialectic imo...
In the beginining was the Bible, and the Bible was with God, and the Bible was God, Naomi
and black will become white in Scripture when you learn the naive dialectic, eat the hidden manna, stop eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge, stop saying you know, become like a little child, however you want to put it, imo.

So i would at least reflect on the possibility that the Bible is not Word, mainly so that a better def of Word might manifest when you seek it--bc if you already "know" what Word is you by def are not seeking a better def right--and expect the naive dialect to change virtually every understanding of every passage that you currently have. Imo you owe it to yourself to prove from Scripture that Bible is Word, and when you cant, to face the implications, or, if you can, then post it and lets see

So...in your understanding a service should only be about gathering together and discussing social justice issues?

ah, in my understanding a "service" is...um what the "Good" (Why do you call Me good?) Samaritan did for the guy in the ditch (who is surely a "saved" person who believes that some "others" are going to hell {if you dig a ditch for others...} while they goto heaven, essentially), so both "worship" and "service" are not pertinent, but "love feast" should be.

But would i want to congregate to discuss social issues? Um, doesnt strike me as what would be done at "love feasts," but im just realizing that i havent really formulated a very good def of that yet, esp for back then (why dont you eat at home?), so i would guess "no" but idk.

"Discussing social issues" is bugging me...it is absent i guess is why lol, yeh. hmm. What issues? There are issues? Ha but you just are not going to like any of my responses after you name some "issues" either...bc there arent any issues, Naomi. Ha i know that sounds weird but there just arent. Plenty of perceived issues i guess

Have no idea what you're referring to with your Esau quote. Spell it out if it's important, ta.

ppl who plead the blood or believe that Jesus died for their sins are Esau

 

[Naomi25]

yes, i know

so you say, but no, It is not, wadr
go, and do likewise

find out why the tax collectors and whores are beating you into the kingdom

etc

Well, lets reason this out a little. I've already provided verses that speak that we must put our faith in Christ and him alone, so I won't do that again. Instead, I'll ask this: if Christ tells us that HE is THE way, truth and life...and then tells us to 'go and do likewise'....what do you think he is telling us to go and do? God and tell them that there are many ways to God? To live their best lives now and think God will think that's good enough?
Would that not be hypocritical of what he had spent a good portion of the NT teaching everyone?
The fact that he sought out tax collectors and whores, but shamed the Pharisees, is not because you have to be sinful and anti-religious to get into heaven. It's because as a general rule those heavily religious sort are so caught up in their own righteousness that they miss the fact that they need someone else's righteousness....Christ's. People who live as the 'bottom dwellers' of the social order usually have a decent understanding that any 'righteousness' they have will be 'given' to them. Thus they grabbed hold of what Jesus offered them like starving people.
I grant you there are still plenty of religious moron's haunting the halls of 'Christianity', but orthodox Christianity does not teach it, it rejects it. The ONLY thing that gets a person into heaven, that makes him right with God, is the imputed righteousness of Christ. And that is given to a person only when he confesses Christ as Lord and Saviour.
Now...you can make an attempt to persuade me that the bible allows 'other paths' to God, but I'm afraid it's nothing but horrendous eisegesis.

and boy do "we"have a ritual for that, or what?
:)

2 Corinthians 5:21 - For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

No "ritual", just grace.

ya, im fam. Heil, baby
ok well i wouldnt be writing that in stone just yet ok, John 18:14 Lexicon: Now Caiaphas was the one who had advised the Jews that it was expedient for one man to die on behalf of the people. , and i dont think you will be Quoting any Scripture for that, as weird as that maybe seems right now. No, Yah mos def did not sacrifice His Son for us, I desire mercy, not sacrifice right

Okay, here's a question. If you think "Christianity" is nothing but a series of pagan traditions cobbled together and bastardized even from there, what are you doing here? Why do you even pretend to call 'God' God? It seems to me that what you see and read in scripture is so far removed from what orthodox Christianity is, that you may as well be walking in another religion. Which is your right. But let's not pretend or mince words or attempt to try and claim that orthodox Christianity has just 'stumbled' into mistaken pagan rights since the 12 ran screaming from Christ's side.
But quibbling between the two seems a little dishonest to me, and just a little historically lazy and inaccurate...like repeatedly throwing out a "the Jews did it".

 

[bbyrd009]

You're really interested in the Muslim angle, aren't you? Are you wondering if I'd as a Muslim person to kindly leave my Church if they didn't confess Christ?

ah no, Muslims are just the current boogey-men, i might once have as easily asked about Japs or Russkies; i chose Muslims bc they are the current "others." And more wondering if in your opinion they are a def possibility or not, as imo you do not have a "Church" but nevermind that for now

Here's a question for you then. Why do you think Paul refers to Christ's coming as our "blessed hope"?

well, bc Christ is quite possibly going to appear in a flash, in the clouds...i mean only Yah knows when, right, narf, but only maybe not near as literally as most ppl hope, as other Scripture makes pretty plain; or at least makes easier to connect.
I will never leave you nor forsake you
that they may be one as we are one
and all that, ten more spring to mind immediately

Sadly, most Muslims may acknowledge Jesus as a person who existed, but they don't have saving faith in him.

she said, with complete placidity

As Christians we need to love them and attempt to have conversations with them about this.

so you say

 

[Naomi25]

ah, i guess you mean "converted," right, to our common form of Mithraism? Out of the fryin pan, inta th' far, imo
interesting, gotta link?
nice talking with you btw

You know, I just LOVE your constant toss out comments that relate Christianity to pagan stuff. It's interesting to me, because as far as I can see, you have not much proof. And considering our source document, the bible, is where we draw the majority of our doctrines and traditions from, I'm just not sure how you go about debunking that. You can try I suppose. Or you can just charge right on ahead and deny it saying what it does, like its clear references of Christ's second coming. It's a thing. Can't say it'll change a single thing tho.

The 'Fastest Growing Church' in the World Is 'Spreading Like a Wildfire' in Iran: New Documentary

Iran has world’s ‘fastest-growing church,’ despite no buildings - and it's mostly led by women: documentary

yeh, i know. Ok, i wish you the best ok, in your quest for immortality and etc
imo there is no judgement for beliefs, after all

Again, showing you just don't really GET what we're really after. We not nuts who are searching for the key to immortality and eternal youth.
The bible promises us that Christ will come again and then he will dwell with us. That there will be no sin or death. What we long for is to see Jesus face to face. To have no more sickness, death or suffering. If that's not something you can at least understand, if not share, then you are missing a big chunk of scripture and what it calls us to long for.

 

[Naomi25]

even though you cant Quote that; no "Jesus, shuvu" anywhere, see
Return to Me, and I will return to you
is what we get when we go looking for that!
after the def of "eternal" has been properly massaged into "forever," yeh? Even though any lexicon will clarify "eternity" as "a space of time; an age"

I know you're smart enough to realise that the word "return" need not appear for the idea to be clearly represented. For example, if I say to you "I will come back", that means the same. Or, "I will come again". When you start threading these other...CLEAR...intentions in with verses that speak of followers being with Christ, of him viewing him visibly and personally. And then especially when we put them together with verses about the Day of the Lord and judgement etc and how that also factors into a time when there will no longer be sin, death or suffering. Well, gee, I don't know...I'd say you'd have to be fairly stubbornly set on it NOT being a 'return' to proclaim it cannot mean a return. Wouldn't you? At the very least, I would think it becomes the very weakest sort of argument for it.

do you know what this belief system really is, Naomi? bc wadr it is not Christianity ok
doesnt mean Yah does not love you anyway though :)

Bbyrd. I mean this with the utmost politeness. But I have become overwhelmingly convinced that you are the last person I can rely upon to advise me on what Christianity is or is not. Frankly, I don't think you have a blessed clue. And that saddens me more than it frustrates me.

 

[bbyrd009]

If Christ is still with us now, as we know he is in Spirit, then why should we be looking for his 'appearing'? Why should it be our 'blessed hope'? And why should we be 'waiting' for it?

um, well, you arent going to like this reply, but bc we are still worshipping Apollos right now, and have not "seen" Christ yet, imo. With the "returning" and the "whisking away" and all that, DMA, etc

 

[bbyrd009]

and i guess thats prolly how that convo ended
for tonight anyway :)

i sincerely wish you the best
in your quest for immortality after you have died, ok Naomi
and after all i didnt actually see you with a shovel in your hand digging that ditch for others now did i
but i would want to be witness to the profession the Muslim would get from you for that i guess
gnite

 

[bbyrd009]

Hmm interesting, so if it were to be called "the place of gathering" how can we simplify that? Is there even a way? Haha

ha sure there is, only the whole model is different imo, and so this Titling of it for it to be called something is...just maybe not so relevant. Right now we gather for an hour on Sunday to have a "service" and to "worship," yeh? But what is a "Love Feast?"

would kids, and maybe most "church"-attendees idk, detest a love feast like they do "church" now? seems to me not

personally im leaning toward a whispered "hey, we're tearing one off up at Calvin's cabin this weekend, pass it on" kinda thing, but see, "we" dont even really much hang with the members of our "church" now as a rule, do we
maybe some ppl do, surely a bell curve, quite a few hang with only their church right
but the mainstreams, i dont think so

 

[bbyrd009]

I know you're smart enough to realise that the word "return" need not appear for the idea to be clearly represented.

go with that then, Naomi. fine with me
Return to Me and I will return to you

The amazing name Samaria: meaning and etymology

 

[bbyrd009]

but granted a very strong inference is made, sure
i suggest that that is calculated, and shuvu is purposefully not used in conjunction with "Jesus" or "Christ"

 

[shineyourlight]

I believe there are seasons and some people maybe in a season when they are not called to go to Church, as in Church building, and then there are people that God is calling to go to Church.

I often joke to my parents that I am called to be a pew seater. Have been involved in worship once though playing the banjo, that was free moving Pentecostal worship though. I have been asked a couple of times if I want to at the Charismatic Anglican church we are currently attending, I have been sort of holding back though, as I just don't think I am really skilled enough. Recently have been operating the media desk though.

As God probably has other plans for me other than just being a pew seater. Haha

Still a great excuse though "I am called to be a pew seater." It's just a joke though.

Haha, okay, pew seater

I do think some people might be in seasons where they aren't called to church. I know God calls me to be part of community. My cousin and her family are part of an Anglican church and I've been to a friend's wedding where he and his wife were part of the Anglican church. It was a pretty cool experience.

I think the only dangerous thing about someone not going to church is because they feel burned. I think there is a time to heal, but everyone needs to be careful of that because if they take time away to heal but never get back, that means resentment, bitterness, and anger have probably settled into their spirit. Anyone should question their "why" as to why they aren't called to the church. If it is out of unforgiveness, I think it is important to go in order to practice that forgiveness and to start practicing in the spirit of forgiveness.

But yes, I do not think everyone needs to go to church. I do not believe it is a matter of them being "saved" if they go or don't go.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

We do not have to go to a Church, but what is a Church going to teach of such a one who is truly born again?

Well a truly born again person does not know everything about the Bible, and we often have to be reminded, and we sometimes might miss what God is actually saying. That's just a reason why we are the body of Christ.

Fellowship is fellowship and we have the Bible and that's all that we need, going to Church will not save you. bible study classes now that can be worthy of God.

I have seen that many people who go to Church that are lost and could not care less about Jesus Christ in their life. they don't want to talk about the Lord Jesus or even look at a Bible truly to study such.

I go to Church and it pains me to do so because Christ is not the forefront in there lives, they only peddle a social religious card, I can get that message from joining the workers union.

 

[Dcopymope]

This is a question I receive a lot, most of the time in good faith, and decided to post a video about it. Anyone have anything to add to the discussion? I'd love to hear from others and their experience with this question.

May the Lord ad His blessing to His Word!

Did Abraham belong to a church when he found grace in the eyes of God on account of his faith in him? Your answer is in whether or not this was the case.

 

[Josho]

Fellowship is fellowship and we have the Bible and that's all that we need, going to Church will not save you. bible study classes now that can be worthy of God.

I have seen that many people who go to Church that are lost and could not care less about Jesus Christ in their life. they don't want to talk about the Lord Jesus or even look at a Bible truly to study such.

I go to Church and it pains me to do so because Christ is not the forefront in there lives, they only peddle a social religious card, I can get that message from joining the workers union.

Oh I agree with you on fellowship (if you are being more specific as in "Christian fellowship") and the Bible, and that going to Church itself does not make someone saved.

How ever it's main purpose is to equip the saints and build up the body of Christ. But spending time with God should be done no matter whether we go to Church or not, we should be spending time with God everyday.

And you should not be hearing the same sort of unwholesome language fellowshipping in a good Church compared to the workers union in most cases, most workplaces in Australia have plenty of unwholesome talk, and if you let that get into your head all the time, that's just not good for you, if you learn the ability to ignore it, then great, but not many people have that ability.

So the wrong kind of fellowship can be harmful.