Different ideas

[bbyrd009]

words are not evidence unless backed up by fact....Keep trying.

"Most of the Bible is an adaptation of the very ancient and quite global wisdom tradition that celebrated the exuberant freedom and autonomy of every human individual (Jude 1:24) and the subsequent psychodiversity of the entire human realm, whereas most formal Christianity is an adaptation of Roman Imperial Theology, which was designed to control the masses and make them compliantly stand in neat rows, waiting for orders in solemn uniformity.

Emperor Constantine famously made Christianity the Roman state religion, but Constantine's favored deity was and always remained Sol Invictus, or the Invincible Sun (hence aureoles and Christmas and all that), and many aspiring world-leaders before and since him have used the sun and its signature invincibility as their chief symbol. The sun's invincibility would be argued by the fact that nothing can stop it from moving. That is, of course, unless something even greater than the sun shows up and demonstrates this superiority by stopping the sun dead in its tracks."
Evolution, the Bible and the halting of the sun over Gibeon

 

[aspen]

"Most of the Bible is an adaptation of the very ancient and quite global wisdom tradition that celebrated the exuberant freedom and autonomy of every human individual (Jude 1:24) and the subsequent psychodiversity of the entire human realm, whereas most formal Christianity is an adaptation of Roman Imperial Theology, which was designed to control the masses and make them compliantly stand in neat rows, waiting for orders in solemn uniformity.

Emperor Constantine famously made Christianity the Roman state religion, but Constantine's favored deity was and always remained Sol Invictus, or the Invincible Sun (hence aureoles and Christmas and all that), and many aspiring world-leaders before and since him have used the sun and its signature invincibility as their chief symbol. The sun's invincibility would be argued by the fact that nothing can stop it from moving. That is, of course, unless something even greater than the sun shows up and demonstrates this superiority by stopping the sun dead in its tracks."
Evolution, the Bible and the halting of the sun over Gibeon

So the drive to make America a Christian nation, while worshiping consummerism and violence is going to be rejected by the same fundamentalists who are trying so hard to achieve it?

 

[bbyrd009]

So the drive to make America a Christian nation, while worshiping consummerism and violence is going to be rejected by the same fundamentalists who are trying so hard to achieve it?

ha dunno, the author was making a different point.
i guess we should see division there if it is not of God, and after all every Fundie is different too right
but i think the fundies manifested the drive, so if one is intent upon maintaining a winner/loser scenario, where else would they go?
are you aware of any fundy sounding the alarm? i see PBS doing so, but no fundies?

 

[amadeus]

"Most of the Bible is an adaptation of the very ancient and quite global wisdom tradition that celebrated the exuberant freedom and autonomy of every human individual (Jude 1:24)

Global wisdom or tradition that was inspired by whom and then adapted by whom?

Ultimately, of course, God, but every person looking backward in his own history as a man in family or tribe or group came would eventually see [if he could see] a place [Eden] where men actually conversed with God. Therefore within the collective memories and writings of men there was probably a measure of truth although from early on it was mixed with their own ideas. As men moved through time away from their real conversations with God it became quite difficult and even impossible to separate the truth from the lies of men.

Selfishness and power were always there pressing men on up toward the top of some tower of Babel [confusion].

Men wrote things down and as we see when we read some of those other ancient writings there was some coincidence and overlapping with the what we read in the Bible. Without God's help, who could or would sort out the truth from the error? Can man even understand the scriptures without God's help?

Jesus spoke frequently of that which was written because being the Truth and the Word, he knew what was of men and what was of God. Who else ever could?

and the subsequent psychodiversity of the entire human realm, whereas most formal Christianity is an adaptation of Roman Imperial Theology, which was designed to control the masses and make them compliantly stand in neat rows, waiting for orders in solemn uniformity.

Some men in a real sense thought, and think, that what others had strived to do with their tower of Babel, they accomplished or almost accomplished with the Roman Empire. When Christianity apparently came to the fore within that supposedly great empire men took what they had from God again and streamlined it with their own well-developed rule book... but they may even have called it God's rulebook. Yes, God's rules were in it because He kept them, but few were able to understand or were even interested in understanding what was of God and what was of man. God also made it that way. Only by God could anyone understand any part of God's message to man.

Emperor Constantine famously made Christianity the Roman state religion, but Constantine's favored deity was and always remained Sol Invictus, or the Invincible Sun (hence aureoles and Christmas and all that), and many aspiring world-leaders before and since him have used the sun and its signature invincibility as their chief symbol. The sun's invincibility would be argued by the fact that nothing can stop it from moving. That is, of course, unless something even greater than the sun shows up and demonstrates this superiority by stopping the sun dead in its tracks."
Evolution, the Bible and the halting of the sun over Gibeon

The sun god and other such gods made by men were not retained or embraced by everyone, but even of those multitudes who confessed themselves to be on the Lord's side, probably few really knew Jesus at all. For the most part, I believe, they either apathetic or they were deluded. Repeatedly as we read the histories written by men along with the truth written in the Bible, as we are led [if we are] by the Holy Spirit, we [who is included in the "we"?] are able to we see that God sent men to help some break through the barriers that men had built against understanding what Jesus really was and is. Some may even have been on the surface a part of the church built by men, but their hearts...?

The writings of men were generally and commonly [usually?] controlled by the men in control, but God at times kept within even such writings [outside of scripture] a bit of truth in spite of the efforts of men to hide that which did not fit into their own plans.

God sent men after the time of the original apostles and disciples of Jesus to work with hearts of people really hungry and thirsty for His righteousness. In some measure those men sent would have understood God message and taught it to people. Like so many men of God in the OT, many of these were probably killed or suppressed by the powers of men in both church and state. They would lose their lives because those powers wanted to keep what they had and get more.

In spite of this opposition God, I believe, always kept a thread of truth available to those who were really hungry and thirsty for the righteousness of God...

During what men called the Dark Ages, it was very dark [God being the Light] for those without eyes to see.. Those with eyes to see were probably very few. Even with the Reformation this probably did not change for most people although on the surface it might appear that it did.

It has always been only a few who find the Way and walk in it. It is not because it has not been there, [either before and after Martin Luther] but rather because most people were simply not hungry and thirsty for the right things.

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

 

[bbyrd009]

imo the very planet has been remade since then though;
we live in a miracle, as far as they would have been concerned

Can man even understand the scriptures without God's help?

Jesus spoke frequently of that which was written because being the Truth and the Word, he knew what was of men and what was of God. Who else ever could?

i doubt the author would disagree; he seems quite humble

he actually even brought this out in The Mandelbrot Set and the Quantum Physics thingy, an explanation of how facts can only get one to 99% (prolly much closer to 1%; we only recognize slightly less than 5% of what we know must exist; the rest is "dark matter"), and are not truth

 

[amadeus]

imo the very planet has been remade since then though;
we live in a miracle, as far as they would have been concerned

Certainly we live in a miracle, but how many are able to see it? Of those who can see it, how many are anxious to or even willing to acknowledge it? We all get caught up in the "fun" parts and even when known the important parts get at best put on the back burner for... perhaps ...later.

i doubt the author would disagree; he seems quite humble

I am glad to hear that, but who else in the world of men is really listening to any of this? Jesus came with Life, but the ones who should have known better and care killed him. He allowed it and forgave them, but what does that say about men? Hey I am one of them too!

he actually even brought this out in The Mandelbrot Set and the Quantum Physics thingy, an explanation of how facts can only get one to 99% (prolly much closer to 1%; we only recognize slightly less than 5% of what we know must exist; the rest is "dark matter"), and are not truth

So then we live in the darkness, a darkness that the eyes of men cannot penetrate, a darkness that is filled with filth and we wallow in it and too often come up smiling.

 

[bbyrd009]

I am glad to hear that, but who else in the world of men is really listening to any of this?

So then we live in the darkness, a darkness that the eyes of men cannot penetrate

i found forums by searching relevant concepts; i wouldn't discount the renaissance we are now engaged in
ppl are def much more seeking nowadays imo; regardless of what the MSM implies
you never know when something you've posted helps it click for someone else

 

[amadeus]

i found forums by searching relevant concepts; i wouldn't discount the renaissance we are now engaged in
ppl are def much more seeking nowadays imo; regardless of what the MSM implies
you never know when something you've posted helps it click for someone else

Yes, I really do know.

Dozens of times over the years on this forum, on other forums and in church houses, I have thought to myself I am finished with this. These people don't appreciate God so forget them... and then the selfish part: They don't appreciate me. Even though at times I find myself wanting to yield to my weariness, I reach out to God one more time and one more time He's there to encourage me and say: 'the end is not yet. I have something more for you to do for me.' Every time I reached for Him in my weariness, He has always been there. He's here! How can I stop? I cannot because I know that the next time He will also be there.

Give God the glory!

 

[Helen]

@amadeus Yes indeed, so true...lovely post.

 

[twinc]

"Most of the Bible is an adaptation of the very ancient and quite global wisdom tradition that celebrated the exuberant freedom and autonomy of every human individual (Jude 1:24) and the subsequent psychodiversity of the entire human realm, whereas most formal Christianity is an adaptation of Roman Imperial Theology, which was designed to control the masses and make them compliantly stand in neat rows, waiting for orders in solemn uniformity.

Emperor Constantine famously made Christianity the Roman state religion, but Constantine's favored deity was and always remained Sol Invictus, or the Invincible Sun (hence aureoles and Christmas and all that), and many aspiring world-leaders before and since him have used the sun and its signature invincibility as their chief symbol. The sun's invincibility would be argued by the fact that nothing can stop it from moving. That is, of course, unless something even greater than the sun shows up and demonstrates this superiority by stopping the sun dead in its tracks."
Evolution, the Bible and the halting of the sun over Gibeon

this is news - that the sun moves and actually rises and sets - twinc

 

[Helen]

this is news - that the sun moves and actually rises and sets - twinc

That is not what I was taught ...the earth revolves around the sun, not visa versa.
I don't think that the sun moves at all...
The sun is a type of God...He doesn't move, we do! He is always there...waiting for us to come back.

 

[twinc]

That is not what I was taught ...the earth revolves around the sun, not visa versa.
I don't think that the sun moves at all...
The sun is a type of God...He doesn't move, we do! He is always there...waiting for us to come back.

as Christians we cannot and must not be led by the many way out weird and wacky ideas that are proclaimed but what the bible/God says viz the earth does not move but the sun does - btw God does move and is moved imho - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

some great reflections on one's individual perspective there, imo; and the one on earth's perceived centricity v reality is even famous, isn't it?
A virtual lesson in the heavens about how "me-centered" life is not, lol.
Stating that the earth orbited the sun caused so much cognitive dissonance in ppl that you could even get killed for it, at one time

 

[bbyrd009]

this is news - that the sun moves and actually rises and sets - twinc

from a perspective it does, certainly.
that does not make that perspective Absolute Truth though, does it?

 

[twinc]

from a perspective it does, certainly.
that does not make that perspective Absolute Truth though, does it?

so what does or should for a Christian, but seemingly does not for many if not most Christians imho - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

so what does or should for a Christian, but seemingly does not for many if not most Christians imho - twinc

sorry, i gave this a day for it to hopefully clarify for me, but i just cannot make that make sense as a reply to that other.


"so what does or should..." what? for a Christian?

 

[twinc]

sorry, i gave this a day for it to hopefully clarify for me, but i just cannot make that make sense as a reply to that other.


"so what does or should..." what? for a Christian?

if only you had completed the sentence you would have understood
"so what does or should make a perspective Absolute Truth for a Christian but seemingly does not - twinc

 

[bbyrd009]

if only you had completed the sentence you would have understood
"so what does or should make a perspective Absolute Truth for a Christian but seemingly does not - twinc

ah, sorry. i actually assumed that at first, by in my opinion Christians should be realizing that their perspective is not absolute truth anyway lol, so my fault reading short-sighted there i guess.

what does make a perspective absolute truth for a Christian? Tares, imo.
The psychoactive effects of tares

i mean, unless you can name some absolute truth to universal satisfaction?