Did ANYONE In Scripture (Including Jesus), Claim Jesus IS God?

[face2face]

Translation: "I can't meet the challenge, so I'm saying that I can, but I'm going to blame you for why I won't, because I'm proud."

It seems like one of those overly loose translations, like The Message Bible. It's really best to avoid using that version!

 

[Magdala]

It seems like one of those overly loose translations, like The Message Bible. It's really best to avoid using that version!

That's a poor comeback, since you know that I wasn't using a translation of The Bible. You should've remained silent, it would've been just as effective.

 

[face2face]

That's a poor comeback since you know that I wasn't using a translation of The Bible. You should've remained silent. It would've been just as effective.

Don't hurt - use the search funtion top right hand corner...works a treat!

 

[Magdala]

Don't hurt - use the search funtion top right hand corner...works a treat!

I did use it, and I found a post where you said that Jesus's answer to the Pharisee's question, "You are not yet fifty years old! Have you seen Abraham?" (Jn. 8:57), was about preeminence, not preexistence. Jesus explicitly not only said that He existed before Abraham was born, but that He's always existed, by referring to Himself as "I AM", the name of God: "And God spoke to Moses, saying, l AM THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. And God said again to Moses, thus shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, the Lord God of our fathers, the God of Abraham, and God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, has sent me to you: this is My name for ever, and my memorial to generations of generations" (English translation from The Tanakh, Ex. 3:14-15). In response, the Pharisees attempted to stone Jesus to death for blasphemy, because they understood that He had said He's God. (Jn. 8:59)

 

[face2face]

I did use it, and I found a post where you said that Jesus's answer to the Pharisee's question, "You are not yet fifty years old! Have you seen Abraham?" (Jn. 8:57), was about preeminence, not preexistence.

In Colossians 1:18, for example, when it says that Christ is "the head of the body, the church," and "that in all things He might have the preeminence," it means that Christ is most important and above all others in the Body and in all creation (except his Creator the Almighty God).

However, Jesus explicitly said, "[...] before Abraham came into existence, I AM" (Jn. 8:58), thus asserting that He existed before Abraham,

The question is how did he exist?

In John 8:56, Jesus says, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."

How did Abraham look forward to the day of Christ - what event do you think taught Abraham about the Promised Son?

and referred to Himself as "I AM" just as God did to Moses: "And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you" (Ex. 3:13-14).

Jesus would share in the name after its a family name! Do you understand what I mean when I say its a family name?

It's because the Pharisees understood that Jesus was saying He's God that they attempted to stone him for blasphemy. (Jn. 8:59)

Interesting they never drew this conclusion at his trail!

In Matthew 26:63-66 / Mark 14:61-64, during Jesus' trial before the high priest Caiaphas, the high priest asked Jesus directly: “Are you the Christ, the Son of God?” Jesus responded affirmatively, saying, "You have said so," and also added that they would see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven (referencing Daniel 7:13).

Why did the High Priest not lay your charge of him calling himself God?
Why did Jesus not refer to himself as God?
Why instead does Jesus use his preferred title "Son of Man" (80 times! compared to 5 x Son of God)

If you respond without addressing these questions and facts, don't be surprised if I lose interest.

F2F

 

[MonoBiblical]

I did use it, and I found a post where you said that Jesus's answer to the Pharisee's question, "You are not yet fifty years old! Have you seen Abraham?" (Jn. 8:57), was about preeminence, not preexistence. However, Jesus explicitly said that He existed before Abraham was born, and referred to Himself as "I AM", the name of God: "God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you" (Ex. 3:13-14). It's because the Pharisees understood that Jesus was saying He's God that they attempted to stone him for blasphemy. (Jn. 8:59)

I just love how I is part of your God's name. I AM is a lame and selfish name which didn't happen.

Exodus LXX 3:14 καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν καὶ εἶπεν οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ισραηλ ὁ ὢν ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς

 

[Hobie]

Did ANYONE In Scripture (Including Jesus), Claim Jesus IS God?

Yes? Please offer Scriptural Quote.

Glory to God,
Taken

When Jesus said He was "I Am" and the Jews immediately understood what He was claiming and picked up rocks to stone Him for His declaration...

 

[MonoBiblical]

When Jesus said He was "I Am" and the Jews immediately understood what He was claiming and picked up rocks to stone Him for His declaration...

It wasn't about Godhood and notice it doesn't say Israelites. hint hint

 

[Hobie]

i have noticed that there are those who claim to have the 'spirit' of God but they deny the Lord Jesus Christ

They do not deny that he was a real person - rather they deny His words and even use His words against Him

Did not the pharisees do the same!

It is a unclean spirit but they do not discern..

 

[Taken]

In Colossians 1:18, for example, when it says that Christ is "the head of the body, the church," and "that in all things He might have the preeminence," it means that Christ is most important and above all others in the Body and in all creation (except his Creator the Almighty God).

It means what it says…
Christ is the Head of “His newly Established Church”…and “it’s newly Established Members”…. (JEWS and GENTILES)
….WHO have “Received” Their SALVATION, Before Physical Death…
* Are Baptized By the Lamb.
*. no one can TAKE From Christ.
* The Lord Shall RAISE up (Rapture), those Body’s.

And the the Head of the Physically Dead Faithful Israelites…and continuing Living ISRAELITES and Gentiles who Physically Die Believing IN God, IN Jesus’ Existence…
Shall After Physical Death…
* Be Baptized By God.
* no one can TAKE them From God.
* God Shall Raise Them up After the millennial Reign…(First Resurrection).

No, God did NOT “create” Christ Jesus

* God Creates AND Makes (possibilities) For His Creations.
* God … Foretells…Knowledge
* God … Establishes…Descriptions, Names, Titles.
* God … Reveals…
* And “IF”…an Individual…(Believes, Commits his Belief…)
* That individual
* WITH Christ…WILL…Receive his Salvation…
AND Understanding…Before Physical Death…
OR
* WITH God …WILL…Receive his Salvation AND Understanding…After Physical Death.
….WITH neither…?
* WILL…Receive Understanding AFTER Death…Believe…And “According TO their lifetime compiled and recorded “Evidence”and “Judgement per the Evidence”…
Be sentenced to Damnation…eternal destruction and separation From God.

Everything Was Created AND Made By, through, Of God…in 6 Days.

The Re-MAKING …of what has Become Corrupt… Is Offered…and ….FEW Accept and enjoy the Benefit.

God did NOT… create…or make…His Existence…His Word, His Power, His Wisdom, His Light, His Seed, etc.
But God DID REVEAL…and IDENTIFY…His Word, Power, Wisdom, Light, Seed, etc. with Names, Titles, Descriptions God Established…and Revealed the Knowledge …to Whom and WHEN, According to God ORDER and Way.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[face2face]

It means what it says…
Christ is the Head of “His newly Established Church”…and “it’s newly Established Members”…. (JEWS and GENTILES)
….WHO have “Received” Their SALVATION, Before Physical Death…
* Are Baptized By the Lamb.
*. no one can TAKE From Christ.
* The Lord Shall RAISE up (Rapture), those Body’s.

And the the Head of the Physically Dead Faithful Israelites…and continuing Living ISRAELITES and Gentiles who Physically Die Believing IN God, IN Jesus’ Existence…
Shall After Physical Death…
* Be Baptized By God.
* no one can TAKE them From God.
* God Shall Raise Them up After the millennial Reign…(First Resurrection).

No, God did NOT “create” Christ Jesus

* God Creates AND Makes (possibilities) For His Creations.
* God … Foretells…Knowledge
* God … Establishes…Descriptions, Names, Titles.
* God … Reveals…
* And “IF”…an Individual…(Believes, Commits his Belief…)
* That individual
* WITH Christ…WILL…Receive his Salvation…
AND Understanding…Before Physical Death…
OR
* WITH God …WILL…Receive his Salvation AND Understanding…After Physical Death.
….WITH neither…?
* WILL…Receive Understanding AFTER Death…Believe…And “According TO their lifetime compiled and recorded “Evidence”and “Judgement per the Evidence”…
Be sentenced to Damnation…eternal destruction and separation From God.

Everything Was Created AND Made By, through, Of God…in 6 Days.

The Re-MAKING …of what has Become Corrupt… Is Offered…and ….FEW Accept and enjoy the Benefit.

God did NOT… create…or make…His Existence…His Word, His Power, His Wisdom, His Light, His Seed, etc.
But God DID REVEAL…and IDENTIFY…His Word, Power, Wisdom, Light, Seed, etc. with Names, Titles, Descriptions God Established…and Revealed the Knowledge …to Whom and WHEN, According to God ORDER and Way.

Glory to God,
Taken

When he returns I hope you will come to know he is the beginning of the Creation of God.

The pièce de résistance!

And when or if you ever discover that truth you will remember these conversations and know you missed it.

F2F

 

[Taken]

The question is how did he exist?


F2F

You and others have repeatedly been answered…this wondering question.

God OPENED His Mouth and His Word came Forth out of His Mouth.
Same for mankind…called…God Said, or man Said.

(Because God maintains Believing His Word…His Word that comes Forth, Continues to Remain IN God, IS God).

Same for manKind…who speaks his word remains IN him.

UNLIKE…God…God IS a SPIRIT, manKIND, is not A Spirit.

LIKE…God…ManKIND has A spirit (called the Truth in his Heart)
God Has SEVERAL Spirits (all derived from His One Same Spirit)

Men WHO Become “converted”…ARE Promised to “Receive THEN”…
* Gods “Spirit of TRUTH”…with and IN them.
* Gods Seed…with and IN them.
* Their natural Truth (in their Heart)(regarding heavenly things)…Circumcised…Re-Born…with Gods Seed, Gods Truth.

Does that individual Receive ….All of Gods Several “Spirits” With Them?
No…NEVER…ALL.
One or Several of Gods Spirits?…Yes that IS Possible…but Never ALL.

All Of Gods “ Several Spirits”…Belong…To GOD…Himself…It is His Power. His Glory, He “gives” (the totality”)TO no one.

Study OF the Spirits OF God… your option to learn and believe or not.

Study OF Gods foretelling, God Establishing of Names, Titles, Descriptions For Himself. And God Establishing by His Declarations…His Authotity…your option to learn and believe or not.

It is when men have Not read, Not studied, Do not Understand…WANT “answers” to things they are not yet “prepared” to “receive”.

That is “common place” in today’ widely “accepted”…society…via “Pushing little children” in…daily discussions of Sex, drugs, decision making…beyond the scope of their preparation….is a fail.

So also is it a fail…for a man to understand heavenly things, without preparation to receive the understanding.

Gods Word came forth out of Gods Mouth.
God called His Word …God…Son of man…Son of God…Life…Truth…Way…Nazarene…Jew…Teacher…High Priest…without ancestors…without Beginning…without Ending…Power…Wisdom…All knowing…Savior…Good Shepherd…Salvation…Spirit, Everlasting Father…Mighty God…CHRIST…Quickener…Judge…JESUS…KING of kings, LORD of Lords…On and on…God Himself.
God Himself.

No one can Hear, Read, Learn, Study, Understand FOR You.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[David in NJ]

It wasn't about Godhood and notice it doesn't say Israelites. hint hint

Some people believe in an 'intellectual' salvation, whereby they 'think' they 'know' and equate that with God
This is another great deception formulated by satan = SEE Genesis chapter 3

However, God does not accept man's intellect as it is corrupted and cannot ascend to His Kingdom.

It has been and always will be a 'heart-condition' that leads a man to HELL or to HEAVEN.

The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
I, the Lord, search the heart,
I test the mind,
Even to give every man according to his ways,
According to the fruit of his doings.

Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”

So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man.
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

There is only one Remedy that can SAVE a man = the Word that was God in the Beginning = the LORD Jesus Christ

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[amigo de christo]

Some people believe in an 'intellectual' salvation, whereby they 'think' they 'know' and equate that with God
This is another great deception formulated by satan = SEE Genesis chapter 3

However, God does not accept man's intellect as it is corrupted and cannot ascend to His Kingdom.

It has been and always will be a 'heart-condition' that leads a man to HELL or to HEAVEN.

The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
I, the Lord, search the heart,
I test the mind,
Even to give every man according to his ways,
According to the fruit of his doings.

Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”

So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man.
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

There is only one Remedy that can SAVE a man = the Word that was God in the Beginning = the LORD Jesus Christ

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

the heart of man twists doctrine unto its own destruction . At most it serves only a god of its own making that pleases its flesh .
The heart of lamb , changed by GOD , loveth TRUTH and Knows that EVERY WORD of GOD IS TRUTH .
It alters not the truth of scriptures but rather loves and embraces the truth .
Many mold a god unto their own loving and that god cannot deliver them or save them . another jesus saves not .
And any version of Jesus that omits truth , OH IT AINT JESUS at all .
KEEP marching on my friend . many no likey the GOD inspired scriptures in the bible . But the sheep sup upon
the lovely words of truth and shall not sip the cup of a harlot .

 

[amigo de christo]

When he returns I hope you will come to know he is the beginning of the Creation of God.

The pièce de résistance!

And when or if you ever discover that truth you will remember these conversations and know you missed it.

F2F

WHEN HE RETURNS all who loved and made a lie will weep and wail .
All who followed interfaith co exist finding common ground will weep and shall wail .
Many follow another jesus , another god , one presented by darkness and has fed their lustful hearts desires .
THAT ONE CANNOT SAVE .
I suggest we all do us an exodus outta such places
I suggest a massive ENTRODUS back into THE BIBLE .

 

[amigo de christo]

Some people believe in an 'intellectual' salvation, whereby they 'think' they 'know' and equate that with God
This is another great deception formulated by satan = SEE Genesis chapter 3

However, God does not accept man's intellect as it is corrupted and cannot ascend to His Kingdom.

It has been and always will be a 'heart-condition' that leads a man to HELL or to HEAVEN.

The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
I, the Lord, search the heart,
I test the mind,
Even to give every man according to his ways,
According to the fruit of his doings.

Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”

So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated? But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man.
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.”

There is only one Remedy that can SAVE a man = the Word that was God in the Beginning = the LORD Jesus Christ

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

The call has been made , the cry has been given , COME YE OUT FROM AMONGST HER lest ye partake of her sins
and recieve of her plagues . FOR STRONG IS THE LORD GOD who shall judge the WHORE who by means
of finding common ground interfaith has promised this people PEACE n safety .
THough hand join in hand , denomination with denomination and with the false religoins of the world
believingthey serve a God of love , THERE SHALL BE NO PEACE unto the wicked , THEY DENIED
THE ONLYONE who COULD have reconciled them to GOD and give them the PEACE of GOD .
They have said within their hearts , WHERE IS THIS BIBLICAL JESUS , HE HAS been gone a long time
come let us make us a golden bull of interfaith , let us make our own love god and serve him and our lusts .
As in the days of moses when he had long ascended up and had not returned
the peoples did an evil thing
And in that mountain MOSES had made intercession for the people
but when he returned delivered wrath upon the ungodly .
SO TOO Shall the SON OF MAN DO ON HIS DAY when HE cOMETH to deliver the WRATH OF GOD
against all who danced to the song of another god and had done so even in the name of JESUS . Woe wail
to the many on that day . TO the many who used the name of JESUS to serve sin
and to sell a lie that its not necessary to have BELEIVED ON HIM . WOE wail to them all . FOLKS had better repentfast
and get in the bible real quickly to learn for themselves .

 

[Marvelloustime]

the heart of man twists doctrine unto its own destruction . At most it serves only a god of its own making that pleases its flesh .
The heart of lamb , changed by GOD , loveth TRUTH and Knows that EVERY WORD of GOD IS TRUTH .
It alters not the truth of scriptures but rather loves and embraces the truth .
Many mold a god unto their own loving and that god cannot deliver them or save them . another jesus saves not .
And any version of Jesus that omits truth , OH IT AINT JESUS at all .
KEEP marching on my friend . many no likey the GOD inspired scriptures in the bible . But the sheep sup upon
the lovely words of truth and shall not sip the cup of a harlot .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

The call has been made , the cry has been given , COME YE OUT FROM AMONGST HER lest ye partake of her sins
and recieve of her plagues . FOR STRONG IS THE LORD GOD who shall judge the WHORE who by means
of finding common ground interfaith has promised this people PEACE n safety .
THough hand join in hand , denomination with denomination and with the false religoins of the world
believingthey serve a God of love , THERE SHALL BE NO PEACE unto the wicked , THEY DENIED
THE ONLYONE who COULD have reconciled them to GOD and give them the PEACE of GOD .
They have said within their hearts , WHERE IS THIS BIBLICAL JESUS , HE HAS been gone a long time
come let us make us a golden bull of interfaith , let us make our own love god and serve him and our lusts .
As in the days of moses when he had long ascended up and had not returned
the peoples did an evil thing
And in that mountain MOSES had made intercession for the people
but when he returned delivered wrath upon the ungodly .
SO TOO Shall the SON OF MAN DO ON HIS DAY when HE cOMETH to deliver the WRATH OF GOD
against all who danced to the song of another god and had done so even in the name of JESUS . Woe wail
to the many on that day . TO the many who used the name of JESUS to serve sin
and to sell a lie that its not necessary to have BELEIVED ON HIM . WOE wail to them all . FOLKS had better repentfast
and get in the bible real quickly to learn for themselves .

@amigo de christo

 

[Wrangler]

I don't see where Jesus denies being good, so you'll have to show me that one.

Anyway, the P1 issue is "WAS JESUS GOOD? Was he? Never mind whether or not he said so. WAS HE? Yes or no, @Wrangler?

I already showed you where Jesus said he is not good. Regarding whether Jesus is good is also an answer I already gave.

What is it with trinitarians asking what was just answered?
U. Jesus died, which proves he is not God.
T. What is the proof text that Jesus is not God.

Re-read my previous post to you.

 

[David in NJ]

For those who do not believe Christ is God, they deprecate Him, they do not recognize Him.
It is why you hear them saying, we don't worship Christ, well neither do Islamicists or Jews.
For them, Jesus is just a man like they are men, nothing special.
For some say God saved me and made me born again, what did Jesus do.
God is the only Savior, this will exclude Jesus as the Savior. Savior means something different to them.

I chose you out of the world,​

That is what God does
Mark 13:20
And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

John 15

The World’s Hatred​

18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 He who hates Me hates My Father also. 24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. 25 But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’

Acts 15, God choses from all the nations a people for His name.

12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had [c]become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the [d]Lord who does all these things.’

18 [e]“Known to God from eternity are all His works.

From @Wrangler in his post #680 : "I already showed you where Jesus said he is not good."