Did ANYONE In Scripture (Including Jesus), Claim Jesus IS God?

[MA2444]

The new and creative ways to rationalize what is not in Scripture continue to amaze.

No, the precise opposite. An all powerful God does not need to be strengthened by dead prophets.

Dead prophets? So you don't even know what I was talking about...

 

[CadyandZoe]

This is the declaration of John that you disagree with(per your words = which is what i am going by)

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life— the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us— that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.
And these things we write to you that your joy may be full. - 1John 1:1-4

I don't disagree with John. Can you be more specific?

 

[Johann]

I don't disagree with John. Can you be more specific?

Simple, that Jesus preexisted and God became something He was not before-in the likeness of man.

Johann.

 

[CadyandZoe]

This is incorrect-

The Greek Term "With" in John 1:1 (πρός)
The word translated as "with" in John 1:1 (πρός) does not primarily denote origin or source but instead conveys the idea of relationship, proximity, or interaction.

You assume your premise in your proof. The only way that "with" conveys the idea of relationship is if it is true that the term "word" conveys the idea of personhood. Which it doesn't. Secondly, Trinitarian doctrine teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all aspects of a single entity known as "the Godhead." And a single entity can't have a relationship with itself, interaction with itself, or proximity to itself.

Do you understand what I'm saying? You can't have it both ways. Either there are three beings interacting with each other, or there is a single being. Trinitarians claim that God is a single being—one ousia. If you say that the second person of the Trinity interacted with the first person of the Trinity, you can't also claim that they are one ousia.

It suggests a dynamic and relational existence, not merely an abstract concept like a promise being "with" God.

Again, this is only true IF "Word" is a person. You haven't proved that word is a person. You assume it. If word is a thing, as is the case, then the term pros doesn't convey the idea of relationship.

Promises are typically attributed to God’s word or covenant

My point exactly. The "logos" is a promise.

In John 1:14, the Logos is clearly identified as a person: "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth."

I disagree. John 1:14 says that the promise became flesh. The one who became flesh is the person. There is no hint of consubstantiation in John 1.

Again, Trinitarians believe that God is a single entity consisting of three persons. The persons, "Father", "Son" and "Holy Spirit" are all subsumed under the single essence of the Godhead. The idea that one of the persons becomes something else violates logic and scripture. If the so-called second person of the Trinity were to become something else, at that moment the Godhead ceases to be a single entity.

The Bible teaches us that God is both simple and immutable, i.e. he never "becomes" anything else.

The text goes on to describe this person as the "only begotten Son" (John 1:18), affirming the personal nature of the Logos.

Incorrect. John 1:18 is talking about Jesus-the-man being the only begotten Son.

For instance, Colossians 1:16-17 states that "all things were created by Him and for Him," affirming Christ’s role as the agent of creation.

Paul is not talking about the agency of Creation; he is talking about the reason for creation. Paul argues that "all things were created "in him" and the phrase "in him" refers to an association with Jesus. God created everything for his son, and with his son in view.

Similarly, Philippians 2:6 speaks of Christ existing "in the form of God" before His incarnation.

I disagree. Paul is exhorting his readers to be like Christ. In this regard, he isn't asking his readers to give up their deity. He is asking them to adopt the humility of Jesus who emptied himself of his right to be respected as a king.

 

[David in NJ]

So is Logos less powerful than the spoken word of God?

Riddle me this, didn't Jesus declare Himself to be God on the Mt. of Transfiguration? Isn't that what that was all about?

AFAIK, the mount of transfiguration was on Mt. Hermon and this is where the fallen angels made their pact to start having hybrid children with the pretty earth girls. So in my eyes, that Mt. Hermon is like a mount of evil or something so that Jesus chose there to do His transfiguration probably held a lot more spiritual significance than doing it just for the 3 disciples. I think He prolly did something not recorded in scripture? He showed Himself to be divine, and God.

Excellent point on Mt.Hermon/fallen angels

And here we have another direct Signature from the FATHER of Who His SON actually is.

This is the exact, precise, undeniable Truth of JESUS taking them UP the mountain.

TRUTH = SAME LORD that called Moses to come UP the Mountain and kneel before the 'bush of FIRE that did not burn"

Same Moses and Same Lord meet again on the mountain.
Same Elijah and Same Lord who met when Elijah hid in the cave of the same mountain.

So Elijah arose, and ate and drank; and he went in the strength of that food forty days and forty nights
as far as Horeb, the mountain of God.
And there he went into a cave, and spent the night in that place; and behold, the word of the Lord came to him, and He said to him, “What are you doing here, Elijah?”

@Taken @Johann

 

[David in NJ]

I don't disagree with John. Can you be more specific?

That which was from the beginning, = in the beginning was the Word
The Word became flesh = which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled,
The Word that was God = concerning the Word of life = In Him is life....

For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

 

[Johann]

You assume your premise in your proof. The only way that "with" conveys the idea of relationship is if it is true that the term "word" conveys the idea of personhood. Which it doesn't. Secondly, Trinitarian doctrine teaches that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all aspects of a single entity known as "the Godhead." And a single entity can't have a relationship with itself, interaction with itself, or proximity to itself.

Do you understand what I'm saying? You can't have it both ways. Either there are three beings interacting with each other, or there is a single being. Trinitarians claim that God is a single being—one ousia. If you say that the second person of the Trinity interacted with the first person of the Trinity, you can't also claim that they are one ousia.

Again, this is only true IF "Word" is a person. You haven't proved that word is a person. You assume it. If word is a thing, as is the case, then the term pros doesn't convey the idea of relationship.

My point exactly. The "logos" is a promise.

I disagree. John 1:14 says that the promise became flesh. The one who became flesh is the person. There is no hint of consubstantiation in John 1.

Again, Trinitarians believe that God is a single entity consisting of three persons. The persons, "Father", "Son" and "Holy Spirit" are all subsumed under the single essence of the Godhead. The idea that one of the persons becomes something else violates logic and scripture. If the so-called second person of the Trinity were to become something else, at that moment the Godhead ceases to be a single entity.

The Bible teaches us that God is both simple and immutable, i.e. he never "becomes" anything else.

Incorrect. John 1:18 is talking about Jesus-the-man being the only begotten Son.

Paul is not talking about the agency of Creation; he is talking about the reason for creation. Paul argues that "all things were created "in him" and the phrase "in him" refers to an association with Jesus. God created everything for his son, and with his son in view.


I disagree. Paul is exhorting his readers to be like Christ. In this regard, he isn't asking his readers to give up their deity. He is asking them to adopt the humility of Jesus who emptied himself of his right to be respected as a king.

I suggest forget about what the trinitarians say and take a look at the Scriptures-the Greek and Hebrew grammar is against your emphatic denial on who is the Logos.

J.

 

[Johann]

That which was from the beginning, = in the beginning was the Word
The Word became flesh = which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled,
The Word that was God = concerning the Word of life = In Him is life....

For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

You can give the English and I will delve into the Hebrew and Greek grammar brother.

J.

 

[Wrangler]

Dead prophets? So you don't even know what I was talking about...

I do but feel free to use verses to enlighten me.

 

[Johann]

My point exactly. The "logos" is a promise.

Incorrect-

Grammatical Analysis of John 1:1-2
John 1:1-2 (Textus Receptus):
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος. Οὗτος ἦν ἐν ἀρχῇ πρὸς τὸν Θεόν.

Key Points:
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος ("In the beginning was the Word"):
The verb ἦν (was) is in the imperfect tense, denoting continuous existence. The Logos existed before creation, implying pre-existence rather than something coming into being (as a "thing" would).

ὁ Λόγος ("the Word"):
The use of the article ὁ identifies the Logos as a specific subject, not an abstract idea or impersonal force.

πρὸς τὸν Θεόν ("with God"):
The preposition πρὸς conveys relational closeness, often indicating face-to-face interaction. This grammatical structure suggests personal relationship, which cannot apply to a "thing."

Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος ("the Word was God"):
The absence of the article before Θεὸς emphasizes the quality of divinity. The Logos shares the essence of God, not merely as an attribute or plan but as a Person.

2. Contextual Evidence in John 1:14
John 1:14: Καὶ ὁ Λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο, καὶ ἐσκήνωσεν ἐν ἡμῖν.
(And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.)

Key Points:
The Logos "became flesh" (σὰρξ ἐγένετο), meaning the Logos entered human existence.

Abstract concepts like promises or plans do not take on flesh. This directly points to incarnation, which is inherently personal.

The verb ἐσκήνωσεν ("dwelt") means "to pitch a tent" or "tabernacle," indicating the personal presence of the Logos among humanity, akin to God’s presence in the Old Testament tabernacle.

John immediately ties the Logos to the "glory as of the only begotten of the Father" (δόξαν ὡς μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρός), reinforcing that the Logos is not an impersonal force but the unique, personal Son of God.

3. Scholarly Support
C.K. Barrett (Commentary on the Gospel of John)
Barrett emphasizes that Logos in John’s prologue is deeply rooted in both Jewish and Hellenistic thought. In Jewish tradition, the Word of God (Dabar Yahweh) was understood as God’s active agent in creation, revelation, and redemption. Similarly, Hellenistic philosophy viewed the Logos as rational order. John transforms these concepts, presenting the Logos not as an impersonal principle but as the pre-existent Christ.

D.A. Carson (The Gospel According to John)
Carson explains that the relational language of "with God" (πρὸς τὸν Θεόν) demonstrates that the Logos is distinct from the Father while fully sharing in His deity. Carson argues that only a personal being can "dwell" among humanity and reveal God’s glory, as the Logos does in John 1:14-18.

Leon Morris (The Gospel of John)
Morris shows the personal nature of the Logos, stating that John’s use of the term draws from its Old Testament background where God’s Word is active and personal (e.g., Psalm 33:6, Isaiah 55:11). John explicitly identifies the Logos as Jesus, the incarnate Son of God.

4. Theological Implications
The prologue of John portrays the Logos as:

Pre-existent: "In the beginning" aligns the Logos with God’s eternal nature.
Relational: "With God" indicates personal interaction, not abstraction.
Divine: "The Word was God" affirms the Logos shares God’s essence.
Incarnate: The Logos taking on flesh confirms personal identity, not an impersonal plan or promise.

Can't help you and will move onward.

J.

 

[RLT63]

Did ANYONE In Scripture (Including Jesus), Claim Jesus IS God?

Yes? Please offer Scriptural Quote.

Glory to God,
Taken

Yes, John in John chapter 1 and John 17:5

 

[Johann]

Yes, John in John chapter 1 and John 17:5

the beginning. Jhn_1:2; Jhn_1:15, *Jhn_8:58; *Jhn_17:5, *Gen_1:1, Psa_90:2, *Pro_8:22-31, *Isa_9:6; Isa_43:13, +*Mic_5:2, Act_11:15 g. Eph_3:9, Php_4:15 g. *Col_1:17; *Col_1:18, 2Th_2:13, Heb_1:10; Heb_7:3; **Heb_13:8, 1Jn_1:1, Rev_1:2; Rev_1:4; *Rev_1:8; Rev_1:11; Rev_1:17; *Rev_3:14; Rev_21:6; *Rev_22:12; *Rev_22:13.

was the Word. Note.—No title could be conceived more clearly expressive not only of the pre-existence of Christ, but of his essential Divinity as co-eternal with God than this—The Word, ο λογος;—for as the word of a person co-exists with himself, and is that in which the mind or thought of man is embodied, in order to be declared or made known, and by which the spirit in man is revealed, so did Christ in his eternal and pre-existent nature as "The Word" co-exist with God, who in him also is embodied for manifestation, declared and revealed, as below, Jhn_1:18—’the same, the self, the same very self as thought, or any act of the mind.’

Moreover that "The Word" or "Logos" denotes a person, and not merely an attribute—as Wisdom or Reason—is evident from this passage, as well as all the places where mentioned in the references here given. For evidence that by "The Voice" or "Word of Jehovah," the Jews at and before the coming of Christ had been accustomed to designate the Messiah, see Townsend’s Dissertation on the Logos, N.T. Chronology, pp. 7 and seq. (William De Burgh, New Marginal Readings and References to the Gospels, p. 222). FS101, +Deu_32:42, Jhn_1:14, Isa_49:1-2, Heb_4:12-13; Heb_6:1, 1Pe_1:25, 1Jn_1:1-2; 1Jn_5:7, *Rev_19:13.
and. FS148, +Gen_8:22.

with God. Jhn_1:2; Jhn_1:18, Jhn_3:12; Jhn_14:10; Jhn_16:28; *Jhn_17:5, *Pro_8:22-31, *Zec_13:7, Col_2:2, 1Jn_1:2.
and the Word. FS101, +Deu_32:42, By Hyperbaton, the subject, "the Word," being defined by the article which is prefixed to it, can be placed at the end of two of the clauses, and in each case we are to put the stress on "the Word." FS77, +Exo_3:19, Bengel notes that "when the predicate precedes the subject, there is an epitasis (an emphatic enlargement of the subject)" as also in Jhn_4:24 (New Testament Word Studies, vol. 1, p. 543).

*Jhn_10:30-33; +**Jhn_20:28, +*Psa_45:6, +*Isa_7:14; +*Isa_9:6; Isa_40:9-11, Mat_1:23, *Rom_9:5, **Php_2:6 note. *1Ti_3:16, **Tit_2:13, *Heb_1:8-13, **2Pe_1:1 g. 1Jn_5:7; 1Jn_5:20.

was God. Not "a god," for the lack of the Greek article here does not make "God" indefinite, but determines which term ("Word" or "God") is to be the subject of the linking verb "was." Greek word order is somewhat more flexible than English, for in English statement sentences the predicate nominative always follows the linking verb. But the literal order of the Greek words here is "and God was the Word" (kai theos ēn o logos), the subject "Word" follows the verb, and the predicate nominative "God" precedes the verb, the reverse of English word order.

Since this clause uses a linking verb, both the subject and the predicate nominative are in the nominative case, so case endings do not serve to identify the subject in this construction; rather, the article "the" points out the subject of the clause. Greek uses the article "the" to accomplish what English does by word order. Thus, if John had placed the article "the" before "God," the meaning would be "God was the Word;" if he had placed the article "the" before both "Word" and "God," the meaning would be convertible or reversible: it would mean equally "God was the Word," and "The Word was God," but this John did not do.

By placing the article "the" before "Word," "Word" must be the subject of the linking verb "was," and the statement can only be rendered "the Word was God." Just as mistaken is the rendering "the Word was divine," for "God," lacking the article, is not thereby an adjective, or rendered qualitative when it precedes a linking verb followed by a noun which does have the article.

See the note on Mat_27:54 for scholarly documentation and an explanation of this construction known technically as the "anarthrous noun."

Translators and translations which choose to render this phrase "a god" or "divine," are motivated by theological, not grammatical, considerations.

The phrase "a god" is particularly objectionable, because it makes Christ a lesser "god," which is polytheism, and contrary to the express declaration of Scripture elsewhere (Deu_32:39).

For clearly if Christ is "a god," then he must be either a "true god" or a "false god." If "true," we assert polytheism; if "false," he is unworthy of our credence. John’s high view of Christ expressed throughout his Gospel, climaxing in the testimony of Thomas, who addressed Christ as "my Lord and my God," is asserted from this opening statement, "the Word was God." There is no legitimate basis for understanding his declaration in any lesser sense than affirming the full deity of our Savior. **Jhn_5:18; +*Jhn_8:35; +*Jhn_8:58; +*Jhn_8:59; +*Jhn_10:30; +*Jhn_10:33; +*%+Jhn_10:34; Jhn_14:7; +**Jhn_20:28, +*Deu_32:39, +*Job_19:26, Isa_7:14; Isa_9:6; *Isa_43:10; **Isa_44:6, **Jer_23:5; **Jer_23:6, +*Mic_5:2, %Act_12:22; **Act_20:28, Rom_9:5, %*2Co_4:4, Eph_5:5 g. **Php_2:6 note. 2Th_1:12 g. 1Ti_3:16, **Tit_2:13 g. +*Heb_1:8, **2Pe_1:1 g. Rev_21:7.

Some extra verses brother and pray you are well and healthy.

J.

 

[Pearl]

The fact that there are multiple accounts of Jesus being worshipped point to His deity.

 

[David in NJ]

The fact that there are multiple accounts of Jesus being worshipped point to His deity.

JESUS never once stopped or rebuked anyone from showing worship towards Him.

“Tell the daughter of Zion,
‘Behold, your King is coming to you,
Lowly, and sitting on a donkey,
A colt, the foal of a donkey.’ ”
So the disciples went and did as Jesus commanded them. They brought the donkey and the colt, laid their clothes on them, and set Him on them. And a very great multitude spread their clothes on the road; others cut down branches from the trees and spread them on the road. Then the multitudes who went before and those who followed cried out, saying:

“Hosanna to the Son of David!
‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’
Hosanna in the highest!”

 

[David in NJ]

The fact that there are multiple accounts of Jesus being worshipped point to His deity.

@Johann @amigo de christo @CadyandZoe @Aunty Jane @Wrangler @Scott Downey @RedFan

Do you guys/gals SEE this ??? - Psalm 37:7

7 - Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for Him; Do not fret because of him who prospers in his way,
Because of the man who brings wicked schemes to pass.

Can you SEE now ???

 

[Scott Downey]

The fact that there are multiple accounts of Jesus being worshipped point to His deity.

They deny even that.

 

[Taken]

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Spiritually…what do you understand Col 1:15 to mean?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

People make this exclamatory statement all the time.

Surely People proclaiming a Scriptural Truth all the time, is not an issue for you, is it?

Doesn't make the person they say it its actually God,

Scripture records a conversation between Jesus and Thomas.

“If” WHAT Thomas said About Jesus TO Jesus was in ERROR…
Does it NOT seem particular to you , Jesus did NOT correct Thomas??
But “instead” Jesus verified what Thomas said…

John 20:
[28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed:

the Creator of Jesus.

Do you think God “Created God?
Or do you Disagree, with Thomas, that Jesus “IS” Lord AND God?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MatthewG]

God made Christ.
Jesus was divine because he was the very Word of God. The Word of God was never “made” as Jesus was born of the flesh and of spirit.


“For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭21‬ ‭NLT‬‬

2 Corinthians 5:21 For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ. | New Living Translation (NLT) | Download The Bible App Now

For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

bible.com

“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. | King James Version (KJV) | Download The Bible App Now

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

bible.com

 

[MatthewG]

God made Christ.
Jesus was divine because he was the very Word of God. The Word of God was never “made” as Jesus was born of the flesh and of spirit.


“For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭21‬ ‭NLT‬‬

2 Corinthians 5:21 For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ. | New Living Translation (NLT) | Download The Bible App Now

For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ.

bible.com

“For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. | King James Version (KJV) | Download The Bible App Now

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

bible.com

I think people just want to be liked by other people and acknowledge as they are right while others are wrong. Is this all people care about? That’s my question. I believe it truly stunts spiritual growth. The Word was God… Jesus was made flesh and born of the flesh and spirit and the Word of God dwelled in him… Jesus and the Father are one on the throne as it is stated in revelation. As the Lord God Almighty.

These aren’t the things that get you into heaven I’m afraid it’s faith and love. Believing in the one who had sent Jesus, and love. Those are what’s going to matter in the end. Did you have faith and did you love others.