"Depart from me i never knew you". #1

[Phoneman777]

You want me to cut and paste my response again so that you can pretend you didnt receive it?
Maybe instead, you can try to be honest.

But i willl do this for you, again.

"depart from me, i never knew you".

"knew you".... this means to have become a Son of God.
Its very specific.
It means to KNOW......this is understood, literally, as "flesh joining flesh"....or, when you become intimate with someone, sexually.....is "to know them".
And example of this, is when the homosexuals in Sodom wanted the 2 Angels to come outside, so that they could "know them".
See that?
That is "flesh joining flesh", they were hoping to enjoy with the 2 angels.
God burned them into black cinder, and you can see this area, in Israel.. Ive been there, as that is where my home is....fella.
This when explained in the Spiritual Realm, as "one with God", means to become a Son of God, or the "Bride of Christ".

See that INTIMACY? = "to KNOW".

Understand?

So, when Jesus told YOU in that verse that He never "KNEW YOU"......this means what i just explained to you.
You are not JOINED To God, as Born again, so, you are not KNOWN.
And those in the verse, were not 'known".

Sorry, but you didn't address either of my two points - you only appealed to what you think are "proof texts" that aren't. Does a husband and wife continue to be "one flesh" after they divorce? Absolutely not - so it is when God and a saint become "one" but later that saint impenitently turns his back on God.

I like if you'd respond to this point:
​

The "many" in Matthew 24:12 KJV who allow widespread iniquity to turn their agape cold and dead (a far more spit-worthy spiritual condition than that of the merely lukewarm Laodicean saints Jesus will spew out His mouth) are indeed saints who Jesus contrasts with the saint in verse 13 who will "endure to the end" and be "saved". These "many" can't possibly be the wicked because "agape" can be only demonstrated by happily keeping God's commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) while the wicked can't keep them even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

 

[Keiw]

In regards to 2 Peter 2:20, those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. (2 Peter 1:4)


Rev 7:14--says its they( the saved) who have washed their robes white in the blood of the lamb.

Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment. Judas Iscariot is a good example of someone who rejected the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and was never saved.

In regards to Hebrews 10:26, see post #42. For if we go on deliberately and willingly sinning after once acquiring the knowledge of the Truth, there is no longer any sacrifice left to atone for [our] sins [no further offering to which to look forward]. (AMPC) 1 John 3:9 - No one born (begotten) of God [deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin, for God’s nature abides in him [His principle of life, the divine sperm, remains permanently within him]; and he cannot practice sinning because he is born (begotten) of God.

 

[Phoneman777]

See that INTIMACY? = "to KNOW".

Understand?

So, when Jesus told YOU in that verse that He never "KNEW YOU"......this means what i just explained to you.
You are not JOINED To God, as Born again, so, you are not KNOWN.
And those in the verse, were not 'known".

I've already made it clear I agree with you on this. The problem is this: you think only those He never knew will hear Him say "depart from Me".

I've heard false pulpit prophets like Dr. Charles Stanley say over and over for years, "A saved person who continues to work iniquity may lose jewels in their crown but they will not lose their salvation - because the ones to whom Jesus will say "Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity" are those He never knew and were never saved!!!"

Now, if Jesus said, "All in that day will say unto Me, Lord Lord...and I will profess unto them, I never knew you", you all would be absolutely right. He didn't.

He said there will be "many" He never knew that will hear Him say "depart", but there will also be many saints He knew full well but allowed iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead who will hear those words, as well, according to Matthew 24:12-13 KJV. What say you???

 

[WalkInLight]

Actually it's God's Salvation that took the responsibility to redeem every person who will believe, with the Blood and Death of Christ.
This is why Philippians 1:6 tells the true believers that God is Faithful to complete their Salvation.

So, if you had taken time to read my Thread, vs, just see it as a opportunity to post your self saving Cross rejecting Theology (Legalism) you would have noted that i told you that "when the Devil has you deceived, you wont know it and you think this has not happened to you".
It has.

See, anytime a person is trying to make it to heaven or keep themselves saved by self effort as you are demonstrating with your Theology, then that is related to not being born again, or its the evidence of being deceived out of real faith in Christ.
Thats a fact.

Pay close attention to the fact that im here teaching that Christ keeps you saved, and you are teaching that YOU have this responsibility.
Now, you can't see this as broken faith, or dead faith, because of what i have explained that the Devil does, but you can believe that the real Christians here, can see you very clearly, and im glad you showed up, as you are their very teaching tool that i was explaining that they are to NOTICE. SEE.... and HEAR.

The problem in these discussions and interpretation is the meaning people put on words like "I never knew you" and "salvation"

Jesus highlights evildoers who claim Him as Lord, who Jesus disowns. If one is repentant and desiring to put Jesus's words into action
Jesus knows us. The group Jesus will definitely disown is those who say they have Jesus's authority but fail to follow.
I would suggest anyone who falls into this category better start repenting and getting their act in order.

Salvation is doing the will of the Father on earth. It is this walk. It is that simple.

God bless you

 

[Keiw]

I've already made it clear I agree with you on this. The problem is this: you think only those He never knew will hear Him say "depart from Me".

I've heard false pulpit prophets like Dr. Charles Stanley say over and over for years, "A saved person who continues to work iniquity may lose jewels in their crown but they will not lose their salvation - because the ones to whom Jesus will say "Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity" are those He never knew and were never saved!!!"

Now, if Jesus said, "All in that day will say unto Me, Lord Lord...and I will profess unto them, I never knew you", you all would be absolutely right. He didn't.

He said there will be "many" He never knew that will hear Him say "depart", but there will also be many saints He knew full well but allowed iniquity to kill their agape cold and dead who will hear those words, as well, according to Matthew 24:12-13 KJV. What say you???

Dr Stanley is wrong. Any can fall. Solomon fell to false God worship in his end. Judas a hand picked apostle fell-He sold Gods son for 30 pieces of silver. Peter fell when he lied 3 x that he didnt know Jesus( he eye witnessed miracle after miracle) but he repented and stood back up.

 

[Phoneman777]

Dr Stanley is wrong. Any can fall. Solomon fell to false God worship in his end. Judas a hand picked apostle fell-He sold Gods son for 30 pieces of silver. Peter fell when he lied 3 x that he didnt know Jesus( he eye witnessed miracle after miracle) but he repented and stood back up.

And there is it: that little word which causes the hair on the back of the necks of sinners and the OSAS crowd to bristle. Because, without it no man will see the kingdom.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

There are two ways to interpret Matthew 7:23 when Jesus said, “I never knew you.”

Interpretation #1.
A believer accepts the false Jesus that they can sin and still be saved on some level from the very beginning.
I did not think this was possible, but it is true. Someone on this forum confirmed with me that they accepted Jesus on the basis that all their future sin was paid for and they are a sinner (present tense) saved by grace. This means they are justifying sin under God’s grace whereby Jesus would say He never knew them.

Interpretation #2.
Ezekiel 18:24 says that if a righteous person does iniquity (sin), all their previous righteousness will not be remembered. Seeing God associates with the righteous, Jesus will no longer remember them anymore. It will be as if He... never knew them. For there is nothing to remember because no previous righteousness exists anymore.

It is worth taking note that the reason why Jesus told them to depart from Him was not because they did many wonderful works, but it was because they worked iniquity (sin).

"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:23).

Even if Ezekiel 18:24 was not a proper interpretation or possibility on Matthew 7:23, this does not mean that the Bible does not teach elsewhere that a believer can fall away in other instances (Please see the following list of verses).

1 Samuel 16:14
1 Samuel 31:4
Ezekiel 18:24
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 4:11
Hebrews 6:4-9
Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews 12:15
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-7
Galatians 3:1-5
2 Peter 2:20-22
2 Peter 3:17
Matthew 13:18-23
1 Corinthians 10:12
2 Thessalonians 2:3

In Matthew 7:23, I believe these are believers but they believed in a wrong version of Jesus in that they thought they could sin and still be saved. Whether they always believed this way is unclear by the text.

But they cast out demons in His name. This means they believed in Jesus. It is just not the same Jesus as described in the Bible. Yes, sure, they may even say they followed the Bible, but I believe they twisted and distorted Scripture to justify sin and evil thereby creating their own version of Jesus (Whereby the real Christ did not know them).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

For what is the way we can know Jesus?

By keeping His commandments (See: 1 John 2:3).

Yet, the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them (See: 1 John 2:4).

Jesus is the way the truth and the life (John 14:6).
So the truth that is not in them is Jesus if they are disobeying His commandments.

Can a person be out of fellowship with Jesus and be saved?

No.

The Bible says in 1 John 5:12 that he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

To all:

I believe the Bible plainly teaches that a Christian has to meet the bare minimum level requirement of holiness to be saved (After they are first saved by God's grace through faith in Christ and the gospel mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). A Christian cannot justify sins that the Bible condemns and be saved. Paul says that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God and lists sins like murder, hate, idolatry, adultery, etc. (Galatians 5:19-21). To “inherit the Kingdom” is related to salvation (See: Matthew 25:34). So when Paul says, “that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God” he is referring to how they will not be saved.

In addition, Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

14 “Follow peace with all men, and holiness,
without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;”
(Hebrews 12:14-15).​

Looking at the text more closely does not make it any better. Please take note that verse 14 says to follow after peace with all men, and follow after holiness as the condition of seeing the Lord. In addition, verse 15 makes it even worse. It says that we can fail the grace of God. There are tons more verses where these came from. You cannot ignore them all, or change them all.

 

[Wynona]

Reader......Are you trusting in "holding onto your faith? or trying to "abide" by SELF effort?

Self effort is attacked on this forum a lot. It's as if anything we do could threaten our "resting in the finished work of the cross" and thereby threaten our salvation.

Does this make sense? Is there even a way to avoid all self-effort besides comitting to doing nothing every day? And if its only about moral self-effort, then what do we do when temptation comes?

Are we to resist like the Bible tells us or is that a damning "self-effort"? Are we to take our thoughts captive or is that "self effort" as well? Not to mention putting to death the deeds of the body. Surely that is an effortless outflow of "trusting in the finished work of the cross".

The problem with demonizing self effort is that it is confuses people like myself who used to believe these phrases.

I decided to put less effort into putting my sin away because of these teachings and sin absolutely mopped the floor up with me.

Unfortunately we have to obey the Spirit's guidance and this is not always easy.
Resisting is not always easy. That's why Once Saved Always Saved is so appealing. If there's no eternal consequence for not obeying, then the work of crucifying the flesh can be put off indefinitely.

And the more I can "rest" and put off resisting temptation, the more spiritual and trusting in Jesus I can feel I am while not feeling guilty about the sin in my life.

Only reading the Scriptures with a fresh heart for the truth can undo this mindset. My words cannot. I can only encourage people to go back to the Scriptures and test everything.

 

[amigo de christo]

Self effort is attacked on this forum a lot. It's as if anything we do could threaten our "resting in the finished work of the cross" and thereby threaten our salvation.

Does this make sense? Is there even a way to avoid all self-effort besides comitting to doing nothing every day? And if its only about moral self-effort, then what do we do when temptation comes?

Are we to resist like the Bible tells us or is that a damning "self-effort"? Are we to take our thoughts captive or is that "self effort" as well. Not to mention putting to death the deeds of the body. Sure that is an effortless outflow of "trusting in the finished work of the cross".

The problem with demonizing self effort is that it is confuses people like myself who used to believe these phrases.

I decided to put less effort into putting my sin away because of these teachings and sin absolutely mopped the floor up with me.

Unfortunately we have to obey the Spirit's guidance and this is not always easy.
Resisting is not always easy. That's why Once Saved Always Saved is so appealing. If there's no eternal consequence for not obeying, then the work of crucifying the flesh can be put off indefinitely.

And the more I can "rest" and put off resisting temptation, the more spiritual and trusting in Jesus I can feel while not feeling guilty about the sin in my life.

Only reading the Scriptures with a fresh heart for the truth can undo this mindset. My words cannot. I can only encourage people to go back to the Scriptures and test everything.

very true dear sister .

 

[amigo de christo]

Self effort is attacked on this forum a lot. It's as if anything we do could threaten our "resting in the finished work of the cross" and thereby threaten our salvation.

Does this make sense? Is there even a way to avoid all self-effort besides comitting to doing nothing every day? And if its only about moral self-effort, then what do we do when temptation comes?

Are we to resist like the Bible tells us or is that a damning "self-effort"? Are we to take our thoughts captive or is that "self effort" as well. Not to mention putting to death the deeds of the body. Sure that is an effortless outflow of "trusting in the finished work of the cross".

The problem with demonizing self effort is that it is confuses people like myself who used to believe these phrases.

I decided to put less effort into putting my sin away because of these teachings and sin absolutely mopped the floor up with me.

Unfortunately we have to obey the Spirit's guidance and this is not always easy.
Resisting is not always easy. That's why Once Saved Always Saved is so appealing. If there's no eternal consequence for not obeying, then the work of crucifying the flesh can be put off indefinitely.

And the more I can "rest" and put off resisting temptation, the more spiritual and trusting in Jesus I can feel while not feeling guilty about the sin in my life.

Only reading the Scriptures with a fresh heart for the truth can undo this mindset. My words cannot. I can only encourage people to go back to the Scriptures and test everything.

Take heed unto thyself and unto the doctrine , CONTINUE in it , for in doing so you shall both save yourself and those that hear you .
I keep under my BODY and bring it unto subjection lest even after i have preached the gospel to others I myself be a CAST AWAY .
Rather odd how many reminders the early church told us about DOING . TODAY doing is callled legalism and to remind folks
to cease from sin is called not trusting in Faith . Rather odd , JESUS was the first one who said NOW GO and SIN NO MORE
lest something even worse come upon you . HE was the first one to say BE HEARERS AND DOERS OF THE WORD .
JESUS gave a lot of TO DO and then said HE who comes to me and HEEDS NOT my sayings , EXACTLY SISTER .
WE are to continually stir one another up TO DO GOOD and to FLEE EVIL .
Exhort one another daily , LEST ANY DOES become HARDENED THROUGH the decietfulness of sin
Lest any root of bitterness springs up and troubles you and thereby MANY BE DEFILED . I can do this all day
with all those constant reminders . SO my question is HOW COME its now considered NOT HAVING FAITH IN CHRIST to do so .
Rather odd , ALL the apostels did this , JESUS did it first , SO WHO is truly having FAITH IN CHRIST
those who omit all his reminders or those who CONTINUE TO REMIND FOLKS TO DO . ITS US WHOSE FAITH IS IN JESUS .
Folks keep forgetting that GOD works THROUGH the church to continually keep the church safe and built up .
but when we start chipping away at all those warnings and creating acroynms and other doctrines
THAT CHURCH aint being kept safe and it aint gonna endure to the END EITHER . Satan knows this its why
he has so many calling these reminders LEGALISM .

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Self effort is attacked on this forum a lot. It's as if anything we do could threaten our "resting in the finished work of the cross" and thereby threaten our salvation.

Does this make sense? Is there even a way to avoid all self-effort besides comitting to doing nothing every day? And if its only about moral self-effort, then what do we do when temptation comes?

Are we to resist like the Bible tells us or is that a damning "self-effort"? Are we to take our thoughts captive or is that "self effort" as well? Not to mention putting to death the deeds of the body. Surely that is an effortless outflow of "trusting in the finished work of the cross".

The problem with demonizing self effort is that it is confuses people like myself who used to believe these phrases.

I decided to put less effort into putting my sin away because of these teachings and sin absolutely mopped the floor up with me.

Unfortunately we have to obey the Spirit's guidance and this is not always easy.
Resisting is not always easy. That's why Once Saved Always Saved is so appealing. If there's no eternal consequence for not obeying, then the work of crucifying the flesh can be put off indefinitely.

And the more I can "rest" and put off resisting temptation, the more spiritual and trusting in Jesus I can feel I am while not feeling guilty about the sin in my life.

Only reading the Scriptures with a fresh heart for the truth can undo this mindset. My words cannot. I can only encourage people to go back to the Scriptures and test everything.

Well said, sister.

 

[Keiw]

And there is it: that little word which causes the hair on the back of the necks of sinners and the OSAS crowd to bristle. Because, without it no man will see the kingdom.

I know, some false teachers tell all that Jesus death covered all their sins, so they continue down that same path. They must have missed this simple bible milk-Acts 3:19--Repent and turn around( stop doing the sin) to get sin blotted out. Those make lots of tithes tickling ears.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

I think the problem with the teaching that insists a Christian can lose what Jesus said he'd never lose is this. God knew those he called to himself before he created the world.
Being omniscient there is no thing he would not know, including those who may backslide, or lose faith for whatever reason.

 

[Phoneman777]

@Behold What say you about this, brother?

The "many" in Matthew 24:12 KJV who allow widespread iniquity to turn their agape cold and dead (a far more spit-worthy spiritual condition than that of the merely lukewarm Laodicean saints Jesus will spew out His mouth) are indeed saints who Jesus contrasts with the saint in verse 13 who will "endure to the end" and be "saved". These "many" can't possibly be the wicked because "agape" can be only demonstrated by happily keeping God's commandments (1 John 5:3 KJV) while the wicked can't keep them even if they wanted to (Romans 8:7 KJV).

 

[Keiw]

I think the problem with the teaching that insists a Christian can lose what Jesus said he'd never lose is this. God knew those he called to himself before he created the world.
Being omniscient there is no thing he would not know, including those who may backslide, or lose faith for whatever reason.

No he didnt know individuals, he knew some would stand up for him. Jesus death opened the door to all men. Few find the road.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

No he didnt know individuals, he knew some would stand up for him. Jesus death opened the door to all men. Few find the road.

Those few are those Jesus knew before the foundation of this world.

 

[Keiw]

Those few are those Jesus knew before the foundation of this world.

Only that some would stand. He did not know a single individual that lives now back then. Otherwise it would be absolutely cruel to have mortals suffer and die for over 6000 years and for Jesus to go through what he did. If only those who were chosen back then was true. Any can choose with their free will to obey God and his son.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Only that some would stand. He did not know a single individual that lives now back then. Otherwise it would be absolutely cruel to have mortals suffer and die for over 6000 years and for Jesus to go through what he did. If only those who were chosen back then was true. Any can choose with their free will to obey God and his son.

Believe as you like.
That isn't Biblical.