Defending Homosexuality

[Stranger]

Sounds like your saying God doesn’t have the capacity to love us while we are yet in our sins.

God has already demonstrated the love for us while we were, are yet in our sins. Homosexuals have rejected God and that demonstrated love.

Stranger

 

[Waiting on him]

God has already demonstrated the love for us while we were, are yet in our sins. Homosexuals have rejected God and that demonstrated love.

Stranger

So you say a man having his neighbors wife isn’t sin

 

[Stranger]

Exodus 20:17 KJV
[17] Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
This ones in the top ten.
Tecarta Bible

What's in the top 10? This should be good.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

The homosexual is already in the 2nd giving up of the downward spiral revealed in (Rom. 1:24-32) He has already rejected the truth. The chances of them pulling out of that, of wanting to pull out of that are very slim.

Stranger

Totally agree. I have known some...but I have never heard of or known a truly 'recovered' one.
The best I have known...is one who came to Christ and gave up being a practicing homo.

He decided to live the rest of his life without a sexual partner , and just for God.
In that case I have to say that is no different to having recovered alcoholics or recovered drug addicts in the congregation. Without the love and support of the brethren who knows if they could even make it to the end.

Of course in this discussion we have left out the direction of the Holy Spirit to every separate situation and lumped them all in together.
If we were 'hands on' we also have the discernment and witness of the Holy Spirit as guidance.

.....H

 

[Stranger]

So you say a man having his neighbors wife isn’t sin

No, I didn't say that.

Stranger

 

[Waiting on him]

No, I didn't say that.

Stranger

The churches are full of it. I don’t hear any opposition from the pulpits.

 

[Stranger]

Totally agree. I have known some...but I have never heard of or known a truly 'recovered' one.
The best I have known...is one who came to Christ and gave up being a practicing homo.

He decided to live the rest of his life without a sexual partner , and just for God.
In that case I have to say that is no different to having recovered alcoholics or recovered drug addicts in the congregation. Without the love and support of the brethren who knows if they could even make it to the end.

Of course in this discussion we have left out the direction of the Holy Spirit to every separate situation and lumped them all in together.
If we were 'hands on' we also have the discernment and witness of the Holy Spirit as guidance.

.....H

It is because homosexuality is itself already a judgement of God against them. It is not just a sin, but it is a perverted life they have been turned over to by God.

Stranger

 

[Waiting on him]

It is because homosexuality is itself already a judgement of God against them. It is not just a sin, but it is a perverted life they have been turned over to by God.

Stranger

Maybe you could consider in Romans he was referring to an age prior to His Cross?

 

[Stranger]

The churches are full of it. I don’t hear any opposition from the pulpits.

Well, I can't help that.

Stranger

 

[Helen]

It is because homosexuality is itself already a judgement of God against them. It is not just a sin, but it is a perverted life they have been turned over to by God.

Stranger

See I have to disagree. You have lumped them all in together.
You give no hope to those who feel trapped and desiring real peace with God. They are not just "a lump" pre-judged.

 

[Stranger]

Maybe you could consider in Romans he was referring to an age prior to His Cross?

Maybe you could, but I won't. If it makes you feel better, place it anywhere you like.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

See I have to disagree. You have lumped them all in together.
You give no hope to those who feel trapped and desiring real peace with God. They are not just "a lump" pre-judged.

God has lumped them altogether. Not me. (Rom. 1:27) Can any of them be saved? Of course...if they want to be saved. But, again, they are where they are because of their rejection of God already. So, if you know any of them who want to be saved, who want Christ as their Lord and Saviour, praise God. They can be. But, they are already where their wants placed them.

Stranger

 

[Waiting on him]

No natural flesh body will stand before God, it’s impossible. The only thing that can stand before him in judgement is the works that are wrought by him, lets keep it real. This is why he says the effeminate the drunkard,adulterous,fornicated,etc... doesn’t enter. It’s already judged.

 

[Enoch111]

It is because homosexuality is itself already a judgement of God against them. It is not just a sin, but it is a perverted life they have been turned over to by God.

While this was directly applicable to those who went into idolatry and debauchery (as stated in Romans 1), what we see today is more of an external influence on impressionable young minds, and all the godless influences which have been working in the Western world since the 1960s. No doubt demonic influence is also at work in all sexual perversions.

 

[Willie T]

Unfort "denying my services" will be forwarded as "casting stones," see, after a false paradigm has been set up, "we" are the baby's parents, or similar, we are getting "married" so you have to make our cake.

So, if two pimps brought a baby into your pediatrics office and demanded that you consider the welfare of the baby paramount, what would you do now?

This is not the bakery scenario. No one said anything about setting you up by "demanding" anything. Two people bring a sick child and you say that your decision to help rests in your judgment of the people who brought the child? I have to say that is something I just can't get my head around. I say, help the child, and then perhaps tell them that they will need to go elsewhere in the future because you are opposed to their lifestyle.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Haven't seem you for a while!

This is one subject that I will not even pretend that I can give an answer to. I have gone in circles on it.

I do not understand it. I know three such "Christians" who have come out in that life style. One now 58 that I myself lead to the Lord at age 14.
Beautiful , gentle Christian boy. Always in our house..even dropped by our kitchen with his brother on the way to school ..( same age as my own daughters..) He 'came out' about a decade ago...but had 'been in it for a decade before that.

I find it gut wrenching and confusing...
I don't understand how Sodomite and Christian came be in the same sentence. I don't "understand" the none Christians...but the ones ( I know three, ) who still attend meetings and go by "Christian" I shake my head...and yes, they all have partners , two are actually married.

I think it is a ponderable that has no answer.

And no Reggie B, we are not still in the Old Covenant...lets talk, if we are talking, of and in, the New Covenant . I believe some are already "in" hell.

Well fact is I am talking of in the NT, Jesus never came to abolish the Law ! and that's a fact ! not one jot ! so that makes the Law stand as to God and God does not change or put something forward for just a joke ? no the Law still stands and anyone who rejects the Law is of Satan, hell even the Jews know that fact and that's why they killed Jesus, because they thought that he was going to get rid of the Law ? but Jesus was not at all, he was fulfilling the Law and adding the two things that must be seen in a Human context, so it's not just a robotic letter of the Law like in the OT but understand the Human condition and that is to love and treat all as Jesus pointed out.
So fact is, that does not make wrong correct at all, but the Gay movement are in spite as to God in fact and anyone who can't see that fact must be a moron, so no we do not as Christians support such degenerate filth at all and Christianity never has promoted such rubbish ever until nowadays, that they are in fact peddling claiming that to look down on Sodomy as a grave Sin now, not to mention it's only the last 10 years or so that they have been peddling that Satanic line full on 24/7 from the Satanic Pope Frances down, not to mention anyone who supports such Satanic filth will be going to Hell, because they can not enter the Kingdom of God and promote any such Anti-Christ nonsense.

Look I know Gays, but I never promote their Sinful ways ever and I never will, because such is a Carnal Sin and they are going to Hell. it was never Adam and Steve.
Sin should never be promoted ever because they that do will go to Hell for abiding with Satan, Jesus will say that he never knew you, because you never obeyed him, because such a one was promoting Satan. you can not have two masters.

A Christian who Sins repents of his Sins and one who takes pride in his Sin is condemned in it.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is not the bakery scenario. No one said anything about setting you up by "demanding" anything. Two people bring a sick child and you say that your decision to help rests in your judgment of the people who brought the child? I have to say that is something I just can't get my head around. I say, help the child, and then perhaps tell them that they will need to go elsewhere in the future because you are opposed to their lifestyle.

well just to be clear I wouldn't oppose any action that someone else did there myself, nor expect them to do what I might do. Imo a pediatrician is the last person I would let near my baby anyway, but other ppl feel different. And if the baby were sick right then I would help it sure, but their lifestyle would be less of a consideration for me personally there than the fact that I would have no access to the real parent, see, the father, whom I would have difficulty getting say family history or even maybe a gene profile from if I needed it, iow not even regarding my opinion as to their fitness as parents, which is already assured anyway I guess.

See, you say "two ppl bring me a sick child" but what really happened is two women brought me a well child for preventive care in that particular scenario anyway, and they advertised themselves as the parents when that cannot physically be true right, so as a pediatrician I am blind to the hypocrisy in the first part there I guess, but I'm def being called to participate in a lie in the second part, one that in my position could become quite material I think.

Seems to me that something is being demanded more or less too?
"Treat our child the same as the child of parents who are not participating in a deception that could be at your expense?"

But I also hate to get lumped in with our resident homophobes, imo their lifestyle is none of my business, even with the baby which just (deliberately imo) complicates matters. I just wanted to make the point that if those two came to me implying that the welfare of the baby should be paramount then they would prolly be sorry if I took them seriously anyway.

Imo there were about four crimes committed as soon as they walked into my office, and I would mostly seek to stay as uninvolved and unjudgemental as possible tbh. I certainly wouldn't infer that they were lost or going to hell, as I know where that tripe comes from. I guess I would prolly even refer them if I knew someone who would accept them?

 

[bbyrd009]

Haven't seem you for a while!

This is one subject that I will not even pretend that I can give an answer to. I have gone in circles on it.

I do not understand it. I know three such "Christians" who have come out in that life style. One now 58 that I myself lead to the Lord at age 14.
Beautiful , gentle Christian boy. Always in our house..even dropped by our kitchen with his brother on the way to school ..( same age as my own daughters..) He 'came out' about a decade ago...but had 'been in it for a decade before that.

I find it gut wrenching and confusing...
I don't understand how Sodomite and Christian came be in the same sentence. I don't "understand" the none Christians...but the ones ( I know three, ) who still attend meetings and go by "Christian" I shake my head...and yes, they all have partners , two are actually married.

I think it is a ponderable that has no answer.

And no Reggie B, we are not still in the Old Covenant...lets talk, if we are talking, of and in, the New Covenant . I believe some are already "in" hell.

well said imo. What comes to us as "homosexuals" in the Bible is likely not the best translation anyway, I suspect "hedonist" is better, and I bet homospirituals are really the hidden point in there. I babysit the daughter of lesbian "parents" so I'm often conflicted here too :)

But the sins of Sodom are listed after all, and regardless of all the preoccupation and the braying about sex imo sex is not really in view there. It just makes a handy proxy that also allows the judgemental to reveal themselves imo

 

[bbyrd009]

With the exponential rise of defenders of homosexuality in the world, I cannot help but wonder how it is that many who claim to be of the Christian community can defend this lifestyle so fervently. I suppose I will never be able to understand why anyone who claims to be a Christian can feel comfortable defending that which God has condemned.

See if they hadn't been attacked so relentlessly by religious homophobes we would not now be in this position I guess, so the Scripture if you dig a pit for others you end up in it yourself is playing out here I think.

 

[Willie T]

well just to be clear I wouldn't oppose any action that someone else did there myself, nor expect them to do what I might do. Imo a pediatrician is the last person I would let near my baby anyway, but other ppl feel different. And if the baby were sick right then I would help it sure, but their lifestyle would be less of a consideration for me personally there than the fact that I would have no access to the real parent, see, the father, whom I would have difficulty getting say family history or even maybe a gene profile from if I needed it, iow not even regarding my opinion as to their fitness as parents, which is already assured anyway I guess.

See, you say "two ppl bring me a sick child" but what really happened is two women brought me a well child for preventive care in that particular scenario anyway, and they advertised themselves as the parents when that cannot physically be true right, so as a pediatrician I am blind to the hypocrisy in the first part there I guess, but I'm def being called to participate in a lie in the second part, one that in my position could become quite material I think.

Seems to me that something is being demanded more or less too?
"Treat our child the same as the child of parents who are not participating in a deception that could be at your expense?"

But I also hate to get lumped in with our resident homophobes, imo their lifestyle is none of my business, even with the baby which just (deliberately imo) complicates matters. I just wanted to make the point that if those two came to me implying that the welfare of the baby should be paramount then they would prolly be sorry if I took them seriously anyway.

Imo there were about four crimes committed as soon as they walked into my office, and I would mostly seek to stay as uninvolved and unjudgemental as possible tbh. I certainly wouldn't infer that they were lost or going to hell, as I know where that tripe comes from. I guess I would prolly even refer them if I knew someone who would accept them?

There is not much way anyone can hope to converse with you on a situation if you allude to it under one guise, and then, a few posts later, change the entire scope of that same situation.

(BTW, in many heterosexual adoption cases, there often is no access to the original family in order to gather all that "history" you mentioned.)