'Death is swallowed up in victory' -When?

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bbyrd009

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Sometimes its down right confusing!
ah well thats on me i guess
As I did say: "...there can never be more than one truth."
Jesus is "the truth". Surely you didn't mean that there are others, especially when He said it in the singular, and applied to Himself as being the only truth.
oh...in that case, nevermind :D
Yeah! That is the point exactly! But unfortunately the ALL the characters in the cartoon MISSED what God's will IS.
John 6[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
ok
might be interesting to hear your def of last day...
come to think of it the root is not coming to me for that one either narf...brb
Strong's Greek: 2078. ἔσχατος (eschatos) -- last, extreme
yeh so last maybe as in and the last state of that man was better than the first,
even though i slipped a little joke in there bc that cant be Quoted :)
ok another little joke. Bc see Scripture is prolly playing a little joke there too, using a little two-word literal scenario as a euphemism? Which i mean i can in no way whatsoever prove or ever offer as a fact of course

well except one is "tomorrow" and the other is today
so yeh take your pick i guess
 
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Earburner

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It is not that there is more than one Jesus, meaning one truth. It is that everyone, who has any knowledge of that truth, which Jesus is, disagrees with many others, who also say that they know Jesus. This is true of you and it is true of me... until we have it all... or until we see his face! Who sees his face clearly now?

"And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.
And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.
After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly." Mark 8:23-25

What did it take for that blind man to see clearly? What will it take for you and for me?
And again, my point is: ONLY Jesus is the Truth! And the only "will of God" that is required of us, is to believe in Him.
Thats all I was saying.
 

bbyrd009

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Hence the reason why "flesh and blood cannot inherit the KoG". 1 Corinthians 15:50.
ha, another little joke, He came that we might have life, more abundantly, and as long as it is today
and we are certainly to inherit as soon as we are no longer children, as long as the heir is a child he is no better than a slave etcetc. You can see how the literal phrase can be taken another way? Just like you got me earlier lol. Of course "flesh and blood" cany inherit, bc the kingdom is within you right, in your flesh and blood i mean, in your spirit, which resides in your flesh and blood. I mean unless you are hoping to become an immortal and go up to heaven after you have died?
:D
And again, my point is: ONLY Jesus is the Truth! And the only "will of God" that is required of us, is to believe in Him.
Thats all I was saying.
well, all must come before the judgement seat to be judged for their works regardless right, so do what you like with that i guess
 

Earburner

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Honestly, I believe that you're the one who's believing the lie of strong delusion. I believe that Jesus Christ along with those who The True God Jehovah has chosen to be kings, Priests and judges with him in that heavenly Messianic kingdom and who like Jesus gets a resurrection like him who was given immortality and inherited incorruption when he was resurrected so do these who are kings, Priests and Judges with Jesus in that heavenly Messianic kingdom. Jesus along with these Jehovah God has chosen from among mankind to be kings, Priests and Judges in that heavenly Messianic kingdom are the ones who will rule over Earth. This the New Heaven. The New Earth they rule over is this same planet but with only righteous humans on it.
Also while I do believe in a peaceful planet Earth, I believe that peace will last for eternity. Those who survive Armageddon will have the work of cleaning up the earth and clearing away the ruins of this old system. And then they will have the privilege, under the direction of the Kingdom rule, of cultivating the earth and making it a beautiful place in which to live. What a happy work that will be! God will bless everything that is done. He will provide the right kind of climate to grow crops and raise livestock, and he will see to it that these are protected from disease and harm.

At 1 Thessalonians 5:3 when it says They(meaning the unrighteous) start saying peace and security then sudden destruction is upon them(meaning the unrighteous) and they(again meaning the unrighteous) will not escape. It's the unrighteous who will not escape. God isn't talking about the righteous saying peace and security or that sudden destruction will be on the righteous. The True God is talking about the unrighteous. Jesus said just as the days of Noah so will it be in the last days. Just as there were righteous people survive the flood there will be those righteous humans who will survive Armageddon. They will pass through the great tribulation and Armageddon on into the New Earth without dying. The planet earth will not be a burnt up planet, the fire represents total destruction of a wicked human society being destroyed off planet earth not planet Earth being destroyed.
God created the physical universe along with planet Earth to exist forever. I know you and others have never believed that God loved mankind so much he wanted them to live forever but I do and will always believe God loved mankind so much that he wanted them to exist forever. So when God put Adam on Earth in the garden of Eden I can see by the commands God gave mankind that he wanted them to fill the whole planet with humans extending that Garden of Eden as they filled the planet. I see the command that God gave Adam to not eat the forbidden fruit because God didn't want Adam to die. God loved Adam, why would God want anyone he loves to die. That means since God wanted Adam to live and not die and he put him on planet Earth it's reasonable to understand that God created the planet Earth and therefore the physical universe to exist forever. Just because of what Satan the devil and Adam and Eve did when they sinned doesn't stop God from accomplishing that purpose regarding mankind and this planet Earth. Isaiah 55:10,11
Ok, then lets look at those verses!
1 Thes. 5[1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
[2] For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
[3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

So now, lets discern WHO the righteous (brethren) ARE, and what it is about them, that they HAVE, that makes them righteous!!
See Romans 8:9
Now, if you did read that, then you know that whosover is "none of His", IS UNrighteous!

Q. How many people believe, that when Jesus returns, there will be a millennium of "Peace and security"?
Do you? Well, you are not alone. There are many, many others, and their denominations also, that do!
But as for me, I don't!!
I believe that Jesus is returning in flaming fire, and everyone who is "none of His" will be burnt to a crisp,
"and the earth and the works therein, shall be burned up". 2 Peter 3

Iows, I DON'T believe in that "strong delusion" to believe a lie, of a false, future millennium!
Why?
Ans. Back to Romans 8:8-9 and see also John 16:13.

However, I do believe that we have been in that symbolic period of a "millenium", ever since Pentecost!
 

Earburner

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ha, another little joke, He came that we might have life, more abundantly, and as long as it is today
and we are certainly to inherit as soon as we are no longer children, as long as the heir is a child he is no better than a slave etcetc. You can see how the literal phrase can be taken another way? Just like you got me earlier lol. Of course "flesh and blood" cany inherit, bc the kingdom is within you right, in your flesh and blood i mean, in your spirit, which resides in your flesh and blood. I mean unless you are hoping to become an immortal and go up to heaven after you have died?
:D

well, all must come before the judgement seat to be judged for their works regardless right, so do what you like with that i guess
Through Adam was the judgment of death.
Through Jesus, is the judgment of Life.
If you have come to God through faith in Jesus, and are born again by God's Holy Spirit, then you already have appeared before the judgment seat of Christ, and have been declared "not condemned".
John 3:18.
However, if you have not come to God through Christ, then you remain to be "condemned already" by the judgment against Adam.
 

bbyrd009

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Through Adam was the judgment of death.
Through Jesus, is the judgment of Life.
If you have come to God through faith in Jesus, and are born again by God's Holy Spirit, then you already have appeared before the judgment seat of Christ, and have been declared "not condemned".
John 3:18.
However, if you have not come to God through Christ, then you remain to be "condemned already" by the judgment against Adam.
well, im not buyin it, but then what do i know lol
im swayed mostly by your lack of reply, no offense
its like...im trying to have a convo with Alexa? Or Gis? An Oracle?
i mean nobody gets saved and then becomes "twice the sons of hell you are?"
And again, my point is: ONLY Jesus is the Truth! And the only "will of God" that is required of us, is to believe in Him.
Thats all I was saying.
he who says he knows, doesn't tho see

i never quite got either extreme of that argument tbh
Ok, then lets look at those verses!
1 Thes. 5[1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
[2] For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
[3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

So now, lets discern WHO the righteous (brethren) ARE, and what it is about them, that they HAVE, that makes them righteous!!
See Romans 8:9
Now, if you did read that, then you know that whosover is "none of His", IS UNrighteous!

Q. How many people believe, that when Jesus returns, there will be a millennium of "Peace and security"?
Do you? Well, you are not alone. There are many, many others, and their denominations also, that do!
But as for me, I don't!!
I believe that Jesus is returning in flaming fire, and everyone who is "none of His" will be burnt to a crisp,
"and the earth and the works therein, shall be burned up". 2 Peter 3

Iows, I DON'T believe in that "strong delusion" to believe a lie, of a false, future millennium!
Why?
Ans. Back to Romans 8:8-9 and see also John 16:13.

However, I do believe that we have been in that symbolic period of a "millenium", ever since Pentecost!
we had 1000 years of darkness and you think thats the "millenium?"
interesting. You were the one accusing me of private interpretations though? Or i mean you gotta link, never heard that one
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Well, if you are looking for the word "thrown" or "cast", then you will find that word to be in association with the words "death and hell", of which are descriptive of " sheol", the graves or the "pits" of the dead that are in the earth, being typically 6 feet deep.
Now of course one must make use of sensible understanding. Will God take all the millions of graves of the dead, pick them up, and throw/cast them into a Lake of Fire, that some do think is only a little lake, somewhere in eternity, eternally burning?
The ONLY Eternal Fire, that is ALWAYS burning is God Himself, of which in Jesus' return, He will be that "flaming fire".

There is NOTHING eternal about the elements of this earth, and is therefore subject to burning. What is Lava?

So then, when Eternal flaming fire (God) comes into close proximity with that which is subject to burning, IT WILL BURN and be "consumed" with Eternal fire, until the fuel of itself is exhausted, and then becomes ash. Even 6 feet down.

However, the Eternal flaming fire of Christ, will never go out, nor be extinguished.
Hence the reason why "flesh and blood cannot inherit the KoG". 1 Corinthians 15:50.

First of all the words Sheol or Hades has nothing to do with graveyards where people have dug six feet deep holes to bury corpses nor does it have to do with individual tombs where people have laid their loved ones corpses.
Hades is the same as Sheol it does not refer to a single grave (Gr., taʹphos), or to a single tomb (Gr., mneʹma), or to a single memorial tomb (Gr., mne·meiʹon), but to the common grave of mankind, where the dead and buried ones are unseen.

The lake of fire is a symbolic place that “burns with fire and sulfur,” also described as “the second death.” Unrepentant sinners, the Devil, and even death and the Grave (or, Hades) are thrown into it. The inclusion of death and Hades, all of which cannot be affected by fire, indicates that this lake is a symbol, not of everlasting torment, but of everlasting destruction.—Re 19:20; 20:14, 15; 21:8.

Because death and Hades are cast into “the lake of fire,” “the second death.” They thereby figuratively ‘die out’ of existence, and this signifies the end of Hades (Sheol), the common grave of mankind, as well as the end of death inherited through Adam.

The way you talk about the flaming fire of God it's like your reasoning that you believe this flaming fire controls The True God rather than The True God controls the flaming fire. I find that's very interesting that so many people think that God is controlled by his abilities instead of The True God controlling his abilities. It's not that I believe that the fire that the scriptures talk about destroying the wicked is to be literal fire, but instead I believe it to be symbolic of total obliteration, but even if it were literal fire, for someone to believe that God can't control it, is interesting. The point I'm trying to make is, if God were using literal fire to destroy wicked mankind off the planet, I know God could do that without burning up the planet. If someone thinks that's impossible for God to do. Then so be it. I know when people try to say such things are impossible for God, I'm certainly not going to agree with that.

I have read scripture where Jesus himself tells us to pray to God asking that his will be done as it is done in heaven. Also Jesus said at Matthew 5:5: “Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth.” Do you think that this inheritance from Jehovah will be a polluted earth? If you ask God will be done on Earth as it is in heaven you certainly not asking him to destroy planet Earth.

Will God himself destroy the earth by fire?
Does 2 Peter 3:7, 10 (KJ) support that view? “The heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition [“destruction,” RS] of ungodly men. . . . The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up [“burned (burnt) up,” RS, JB; “will vanish,” TEV; “will be made manifest,” NAB; “will be laid bare,” NE; “will be discovered,” NW].” (Note: The Codex Sinaiticus and Vatican MS 1209, both of the 4th century C.E., read “be discovered.” Later manuscripts, the 5th-century Codex Alexandrinus and the 16th-century Clementine recension of the Vulgate, read “be burned up.”)

Does Revelation 21:1 (KJ) indicate that our planet will be destroyed? “And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”

To be correct, the explanation of these verses must agree with the context and with the rest of the Bible

If these texts (2 Peter 3:7, 10 and Revelation 21:1) mean that the literal planet Earth is to be consumed by fire, then the literal heavens (the stars and other heavenly bodies) are also to be destroyed by fire. Such a literal view, however, conflicts with the assurance contained in such texts as Matthew 6:10, Psalm 37:29 and 104:5, also Proverbs 2:21, 22. So the term “earth” in the above-quoted texts must be understood in a different sense.

At Genesis 11:1, First Kings 2:1, 2, First Chronicles 16:31, Psalm 96:1, etc., the term “earth” is used in a figurative sense, referring to mankind, to human society. Might that be the case at 2 Peter 3:7, 10 and Revelation 21:1?

Note that, in the context, at 2 Peter 3:5, 6 (also 2:5, 9), a parallel is drawn with the Flood of Noah’s day, in which wicked human society was destroyed, but Noah and his household, as well as the globe itself, were preserved. Likewise, at 2 Peter 3:7 it says that the ones to be destroyed are “ungodly men.” The view that “the earth” here refers to wicked human society fully agrees with the rest of the Bible, as is illustrated by the texts cited above. It is that symbolic “earth,” or wicked human society, that is “discovered”; that is, Jehovah will sear away as by fire all disguise, exposing the wickedness of ungodly human society and showing it to be worthy of complete destruction. That wicked society of humans is also “the first earth,” referred to at Revelation 21:1 (KJ).
 

Earburner

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well, im not buyin it, but then what do i know lol
im swayed mostly by your lack of reply, no offense
its like...im trying to have a convo with Alexa? Or Gis? An Oracle?
i mean nobody gets saved and then becomes "twice the sons of hell you are?"

he who says he knows, doesn't tho see

i never quite got either extreme of that argument tbh
we had 1000 years of darkness and you think thats the "millenium?"
interesting. You were the one accusing me of private interpretations though? Or i mean you gotta link, never heard that one
To all of your above replies, I am perceiving that you are rather clueless of HOW the Lord reveals HIS understanding of HIS OWN words, as opposed to our feeble, fleshly minds, attempting to comprehend HIM through the human effort of our logic and numerous analytical word studies.

Apparently, you do not comprehend HIS keys to HIS understanding of "His thoughts and His ways". Please see Isaiah 55:8-9 John 16:13 and Romans 11:13.

Therefore, if you don't fully know of the things of the Lord, then I suggest that you apply yourself in prayer, and investigate HOW it is that HE reveals His Truth to us.
Mat. 16[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but [rather] my Father which is in heaven.
 

Earburner

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So the term “earth” in the above-quoted texts must be understood in a different sense.
YES! I AGREE!! It most surely is to be understood in a different sense, except that the Lord must reveal it to you, by His Holy Spirit, that is if He is within you! Romans 8:8-9

Yesterday at 3:00pm., I wrote:
"In some ways, we have a little bit in common!
As I did previously say:
"So then, what shall appear after this physical earth and celestial heavens are destroyed?
Ans. 2 Peter 3:13, the New Heaven and New earth, of which will be like nothing that we have ever known, or can imagine!"
Why?
Ans. Jesus Himself is the New Heaven, and we ourselves, who are BODILY resurrected after His Immortal likeness, will be the New Earth!!
Why?
Because, WITHIN EACH OF US, who are of faith in Jesus, IS WHERE the Father desires TO DWELL.
"Marvel not that I said unto you,
Ye MUST BE born again [now]".
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Ok, then lets look at those verses!
1 Thes. 5[1] But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
[2] For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
[3] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
[4] But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.[/QUOTE\]

Up above concerning 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 Paul tell his brothers and sisters in Thessalonia that he doesn't need to tell them when the last days(times and seasons) is upon them because they know that God will come as a thief in the night concerning the unrighteous. Paul tells them that when they(meaning the unrighteous) start saying peace and security(as though the unrighteous could achieve peace and security without God) when the unrighteous believe they have achieved peace and security then sudden destruction is to be upon them and none of the unrighteous will escape. When you say there will be No Escapees you have to understand that these scriptures are not saying their will be no people on Earth but it's saying there will be no unrighteous people on earth because these scriptures are telling the brother and sisters in Thessalonia that because they are not ignorant of how things will happen but when the righteous see these things happening that day will not be to the righteous as a day of a thief comes but those who are caught unawares will be the unrighteous. Since these scriptures tell the Thessalonians that they are not in darkness that that day would not overtake them like a thief then these scriptures are showing you that there will be righteous people on earth at that time these things are happening. So when that destruction happens it's the unrighteous that will not escape that destruction. God will not destroy righteous along with the unrighteous.
 
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bbyrd009

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To all of your above replies, I am perceiving that you are rather clueless of HOW the Lord reveals HIS understanding of HIS OWN words, as opposed to our feeble, fleshly minds, attempting to comprehend HIM through the human effort of our logic and numerous analytical word studies.
never been a big fan of logic myself, but ty, you might be right there

Apparently, you do not comprehend HIS keys to HIS understanding of "His thoughts and His ways".
i think you just said that, yeh
so you arent really going to reply to my post at all, are you
im just fodder for your next little sermon?

ok, ty

Therefore, if you don't fully know of the things of the Lord, then I suggest that you apply yourself in prayer, and investigate HOW it is that HE reveals His Truth to us.
ah ok and how is that? ty
 

Earburner

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Barney,
I will ask again, how does Romans 8:8-9 describe the unrighteous, through the words "...he is none of his".
Iows, what is it that they are lacking, that causes them to be "none of His", aka they who are the unrighteous?
 

Earburner

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You are not understanding me, in what the Lord does say, in so many parables about how the saved, aka the righteous, and the unsaved, aka the unrighteous, all live and worship together in all the churches, including yours. Never mind the fact, that its even more worse, when the leaders-Bishops, Elders, Pastors etc., ARE UNrighteous, because they ARE "none of His".
According to the context of Romans 8:8-9, many people who attend and/or are members of a church, are unrighteous (being none of His), and therefore are also unrighteous IN A CHURCH. Leaders included.
Now, can you discern in Romans 8:8-9 what/who it is that makes a person righteous, and how that is manifested in us?
 

Earburner

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Barney,
Since i don't want to drag this out forever, here is the clue in what I am asking you:
The H_ly Sp_ _it of _ _d is the answer!


So then, is the Holy Spirit within you?
If not, then YOU HAVE serious problems with your relationship with God THROUGH Christ!!
 

amadeus

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And again, my point is: ONLY Jesus is the Truth! And the only "will of God" that is required of us, is to believe in Him.
Thats all I was saying.
While I agree, what does it mean to believe in Jesus? It certainly means more than believing that he exists!
 

Earburner

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Therefore, any church and its doctrines, or Leader of a church, that promotes "a thousand years" of "peace and security", after Christ returns (seen or unseen), is fulfilling the prophecy of
1 Thessalonians 5:3, and as a result "are of that spirit of antichrist".
 

Earburner

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While I agree, what does it mean to believe in Jesus? It certainly means more than believing that he exists!
Amen!! Romans 8:8-9 explains the commitment of our profession of faith, in our conversion in Christ, of whether He Himself dwells within us, or we are just giving lip-service as a "religionist".

One can know whether they are one of His, or they continue to remain to be "none of His".
John 3:3-8