Daniel's Final "one week" of Daniel 9:27 Made Simple

[IndianaRob]

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

IOW per your interpretation.

490 days are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be 49 days, and 434 days: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
And after 434 days shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for 7 days: and in the midst of the 7 days he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And this makes sense exactly how???????? Guess what., though? If your interpretation involves no gaps, well 434 days would equal approx 1.2 or so years. 1.2 or so years earlier, meaning 1.2 years prior to the time of the cross, no one was still doing any of this--to build Jerusalem ---the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. LOL. Your interpretation is preposterous beyond belief because your interpretation has them still building the streets after Christ has already been born, after they had already built the streets before Christ was even born. And you have them still doing this less than 2 years prior to the time of the cross since that is where these days involving building Jerusalem and it's streets would have to fit if there are no gaps in your interpretation, and that literal weeks are meant instead of weeks of years.

Some of you act like some of the rest of us are plain stupid or something, as if we should be taking interpretations , such as yours, serious.

I don't think any of you are stupid sir. I'm sure anyone that ASSUMES the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem is talking about earthly Jerusalem would think the idea of 70 literal weeks is insane.

The commandment in Daniel 9:25 is 1) RESTORE and 2) BUILD, not rebuild.

I don't see how anyone can read that verse and not automatically think 1) "Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things." and 2) "That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church".

Actually I do know why people don't see it.

Most people don't understand that the CHURCH (the mother of us all) is heavenly Jerusalem, most think Heavenly Jerusalem is a cube that floats down from heaven at the end of time.

My question to those who view the prophecy from the earthly Jerusalem perspective is how do you know it's talking about earthly Jerusalem especially since the commandment is to 1) RESTORE and 2) BUILD, not rebuild, Jerusalem.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I don't think any of you are stupid sir. I'm sure anyone that ASSUMES the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem is talking about earthly Jerusalem would think the idea of 70 literal weeks is insane.

The commandment in Daniel 9:25 is 1) RESTORE and 2) BUILD, not rebuild.

I don't see how anyone can read that verse and not automatically think 1) "Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things." and 2) "That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church".

Actually I do know why people don't see it.

Most people don't understand that the CHURCH (the mother of us all) is heavenly Jerusalem, most think Heavenly Jerusalem is a cube that floats down from heaven at the end of time.

My question to those who view the prophecy from the earthly Jerusalem perspective is how do you know it's talking about earthly Jerusalem especially since the commandment is to 1) RESTORE and 2) BUILD, not rebuild, Jerusalem.

I agree.

 

[Davidpt]

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Jesus is no longer confirming His everlasting covenant?

Says who?

If He's no longer confirming it, it's not an everlasting covenant.

But He is, and it is.

In this case the problem is not me, it is you and your interpretation.

So, apparently then, my point went over your head. The text says the covenant is only being confirmed for one week. And that I find that odd if Christ is the one confirming it, as to why He would only be doing that for one week? You instead contradict the text by what you submitted here if your position is that Christ is the one confirming this.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Point out in the text where it says---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for MORE THAN one week rather than for one week just like the text plainly says? IOW, how can---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week--possibly mean 2 weeks, 3 weeks, a thousand weeks, so on and so on--anything but one week? IOW, God forbid that it can actually mean one week and for one week only, not more than one week instead. The text does not remotely say the latter, that the one confirming this confirms it for more than one week.

 

[Davidpt]

I don't think any of you are stupid sir. I'm sure anyone that ASSUMES the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem is talking about earthly Jerusalem would think the idea of 70 literal weeks is insane.

The commandment in Daniel 9:25 is 1) RESTORE and 2) BUILD, not rebuild.

I don't see how anyone can read that verse and not automatically think 1) "Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things." and 2) "That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church".

Actually I do know why people don't see it.

Most people don't understand that the CHURCH (the mother of us all) is heavenly Jerusalem, most think Heavenly Jerusalem is a cube that floats down from heaven at the end of time.

My question to those who view the prophecy from the earthly Jerusalem perspective is how do you know it's talking about earthly Jerusalem especially since the commandment is to 1) RESTORE and 2) BUILD, not rebuild, Jerusalem.

Explain this then---the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

First you argue nothing is being rebuilt though it seems pretty obvious something is being rebuilt if the text is saying this--the street shall be built again. How can the street be built again without rebuilding it first? And what about this part---even in troublous times? How do you fit that into the time of Christ just prior to the cross? Why are you not using the book of Ezra and the book of Nehemiah to interpret some of these things?

 

[IndianaRob]

Explain this then---the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

First you argue nothing is being rebuilt though it seems pretty obvious something is being rebuilt if the text is saying this--the street shall be built again. How can the street be built again without rebuilding it first? And what about this part---even in troublous times? How do you fit that into the time of Christ just prior to the cross? Why are you not using the book of Ezra and the book of Nehemiah to interpret some of these things?

You have a good point I’ll have to look into. Thanks.

 

[covenantee]

In this case the problem is not me, it is you and your interpretation.

So, apparently then, my point went over your head. The text says the covenant is only being confirmed for one week. And that I find that odd if Christ is the one confirming it, as to why He would only be doing that for one week? You instead contradict the text by what you submitted here if your position is that Christ is the one confirming this.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Point out in the text where it says---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for MORE THAN one week rather than for one week just like the text plainly says? IOW, how can---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week--possibly mean 2 weeks, 3 weeks, a thousand weeks, so on and so on--anything but one week? IOW, God forbid that it can actually mean one week and for one week only, not more than one week instead. The text does not remotely say the latter, that the one confirming this confirms it for more than one week.

The problem is your denial of the confirmed everlasting covenant.

Matthew 26 YLT
27 and having taken the cup, and having given thanks, he gave to them, saying, `Drink ye of it -- all;
28 for this is my blood of the new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to remission of sins;

Was the Covenant that Jesus gave His disciples a confirmed Covenant?
Or was it an unconfirmed Covenant?

Hebrews 13:20
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

Is this everlasting covenant a confirmed Covenant?
Or is it an unconfirmed Covenant?

Has the everlasting covenant ever changed from confirmed to unconfirmed?

What kind of Covenants does God deal in?
The answer is self-evident.

 

[IndianaRob]

Explain this then---the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

First you argue nothing is being rebuilt though it seems pretty obvious something is being rebuilt if the text is saying this--the street shall be built again. How can the street be built again without rebuilding it first? And what about this part---even in troublous times? How do you fit that into the time of Christ just prior to the cross? Why are you not using the book of Ezra and the book of Nehemiah to interpret some of these things?

I believe this is the wall in Daniel.

Isaiah 26:1 (KJV): In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah; We have a strong city; salvation will God appoint for walls and bulwarks.

I believe this is the street in Daniel.

Isaiah 40:3 (KJV) — The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I believe this is the wall in Daniel.

Isaiah 26:1 (KJV): In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah; We have a strong city; salvation will God appoint for walls and bulwarks.

I believe this is the street in Daniel.

Isaiah 40:3 (KJV) — The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

I like to add something more for considerations:

Every single part of God's Holy Word has a spiritual message to tell. Historically, streets, were places where people gathered to meet and teach.

Luke 13:26

• "Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets."

Low and behold, streets for teaching? YES! Not physical streets in Jersualem or anywhere as we understand it today.

Lamentations 4:1-2

• "How is the gold become dim! how is the most fine gold changed! the stones of the sanctuary are poured out in the top of every street.
• The precious sons of Zion, comparable to fine gold, how are they esteemed as earthen pitchers, the work of the hands of the potter!"

When we begin to truly understand what stones of the Temple here that God is talking about, we will begin to understand what stones of the Temple God is talking about that He says are brought down in the Old Testament and the New Testament. We will begin to understand the Jerusalem He wept over that would be brought to desolation is NOT physical streets and stones. Then we'll begin to understand why God speaks of Himself as the foundation top stone of a new building of a Temple that Israel rejected, and how God speaks of all believers as living stones of the Holy Temple. We need to understand that interpretations belong to God, not Josephus nor Tim LaHaye .

Because every single part of God's Holy Word has a spiritual message to tell. Historically these streets were places where people gathered to meet and teach. It is a wide space of the Church where Two Witnesses testify or teach the Gospel.

Luke 13:26

• "Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets."

Low and behold, streets for teaching? Indeed!

Now look at Two Witnesses:

Rev 11:7-10
(7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
(8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(9) And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
(10) And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

The Two Witnesses or faithful Christians have been overcome and silenced by the beast, the army of false prophets and christs with the spirit of antichrist released from the pit by God. This does not affect their Salvation, of course, and that is why Revelation chapter seven says all Elect had to be sealed through the testimony of Two Witnesses first before Satan can be loosened! But the beast affects their witness or testimony in the Churches. They cannot effectively preach in the external covenant Church anymore because the spirit of Satan is ruling there, and the leaders have departed from the faith unto doctrines of devils. That is why the Two Witnesses are dead to them. This is why God says of this great city that, it is 'spiritually' called Sodom and Egypt. Because though the external Church still retains the name of Christ, spiritually speaking it has become as these two cities which were infamous for their abominations and bondage to Satan. When God's people turn from God and forsake His laws, God speaks of them in the spiritual sense as being in bondage of Egypt and in the abominations of Sodom. Do you see why we are witnessing the rise of false prophets and christs where they have turned church to tolerate homosexuals to be a member, teacher, or even pastors. Where they are selling more and more lukewarm gospel, etc where people will NOT be able to find salvation from this!

And verse 9 and 10 illustrate that the true witnesses (the true Church within the external covenant Church) had become a people of derision or a people to be mocked, reviled, and scorned. Just as the faithful witnesses today are thought of as legalists who literally believe that God 'actually' means exactly what He says. People who actually faithfully adhere to His Word, and seek to keep the commandments of God, not compromising doctrine for the sake of the flesh. The unsaved shall look upon [blepo] these faithful who they have effectively killed in the city. In other words, the disdain of these believers is not something they cannot recognize. Though they surely will deny that these witnesses they silenced taught the truth, they see what their actions have done to them, and recognize that their voice has been eliminated. But they do not repent nor mourn the loss of their truthful witness in the Churches. These people who are from all over the world, from all kindreds (families), tongues (languages) and nations, who see the death of the witnesses in the wide ways do not care about them. We read that they do not bother to bury them. This is symbolizing that the people of the world who have come up into the Church have no regret, and they do not mourn for the fact that the witnesses of truth have been silenced in the City. There is no repentance shown for what they have done.

See, when you love someone, you mourn their death and you take their body up and bury it. But here we see the image which shows that 'none' cared for these faithful witnesses of God who testified to the truth, in that they didn't mourn their loss. That is what the language of, 'there was none to bury them,' signifies. None of the people of the world cared that the truth was not being brought anymore. No one cared that the Lord's servants were killed and their testimony in the Church silenced. The same illustration we saw in Psalms 79:1-4. No one cared that these servants of God were silenced or that God's house was an abomination. In fact, it is a relief to the unfaithful that the Word of God isn't preached in their church anymore! BECAUSE (deceived people that they are) they see it as better for them, for this allows their false teachings to be preached without the witnesses condemning it as the lawlessness it is. Unencumbered now, they can teach doctrines which are contrary to the law of God. Doctrines like those which trivialize the abomination of divorce and remarriage which God says He hates. Doctrines like those which teach that women can be the head of the Churches and rule over men. Doctrines which compromise the Grace of God, or which promotes earthly reigns, lusts and possession. The death of the witnesses to truth in the Church is not a cause for their mourning, it is the cause of their rejoicing. Because just as national Israel before them, they are deceived into thinking that they have done the Church a favor by silencing this witness of God's judgments and truth. So they can exchange their false doctrines together without worry about the faithful testimony of the Two Witnesses.

Now, where will all these things will take place at? STREET of the great city! IN THE CHURCH.... where the faithful Witnesses "can see" the abomination of desolatino standing where it does not belong! IN THE CHURCH!

Thats it for now.

 

[IndianaRob]

I like to add something more for considerations:

Every single part of God's Holy Word has a spiritual message to tell. Historically, streets, were places where people gathered to meet and teach.

Luke 13:26

• "Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets."

Low and behold, streets for teaching? YES! Not physical streets in Jersualem or anywhere as we understand it today.

Lamentations 4:1-2

• "How is the gold become dim! how is the most fine gold changed! the stones of the sanctuary are poured out in the top of every street.
• The precious sons of Zion, comparable to fine gold, how are they esteemed as earthen pitchers, the work of the hands of the potter!"

When we begin to truly understand what stones of the Temple here that God is talking about, we will begin to understand what stones of the Temple God is talking about that He says are brought down in the Old Testament and the New Testament. We will begin to understand the Jerusalem He wept over that would be brought to desolation is NOT physical streets and stones. Then we'll begin to understand why God speaks of Himself as the foundation top stone of a new building of a Temple that Israel rejected, and how God speaks of all believers as living stones of the Holy Temple. We need to understand that interpretations belong to God, not Josephus nor Tim LaHaye .

Because every single part of God's Holy Word has a spiritual message to tell. Historically these streets were places where people gathered to meet and teach. It is a wide space of the Church where Two Witnesses testify or teach the Gospel.

Luke 13:26

• "Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets."

Low and behold, streets for teaching? Indeed!

Now look at Two Witnesses:

Rev 11:7-10
(7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
(8) And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
(9) And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
(10) And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

The Two Witnesses or faithful Christians have been overcome and silenced by the beast, the army of false prophets and christs with the spirit of antichrist released from the pit by God. This does not affect their Salvation, of course, and that is why Revelation chapter seven says all Elect had to be sealed through the testimony of Two Witnesses first before Satan can be loosened! But the beast affects their witness or testimony in the Churches. They cannot effectively preach in the external covenant Church anymore because the spirit of Satan is ruling there, and the leaders have departed from the faith unto doctrines of devils. That is why the Two Witnesses are dead to them. This is why God says of this great city that, it is 'spiritually' called Sodom and Egypt. Because though the external Church still retains the name of Christ, spiritually speaking it has become as these two cities which were infamous for their abominations and bondage to Satan. When God's people turn from God and forsake His laws, God speaks of them in the spiritual sense as being in bondage of Egypt and in the abominations of Sodom. Do you see why we are witnessing the rise of false prophets and christs where they have turned church to tolerate homosexuals to be a member, teacher, or even pastors. Where they are selling more and more lukewarm gospel, etc where people will NOT be able to find salvation from this!

And verse 9 and 10 illustrate that the true witnesses (the true Church within the external covenant Church) had become a people of derision or a people to be mocked, reviled, and scorned. Just as the faithful witnesses today are thought of as legalists who literally believe that God 'actually' means exactly what He says. People who actually faithfully adhere to His Word, and seek to keep the commandments of God, not compromising doctrine for the sake of the flesh. The unsaved shall look upon [blepo] these faithful who they have effectively killed in the city. In other words, the disdain of these believers is not something they cannot recognize. Though they surely will deny that these witnesses they silenced taught the truth, they see what their actions have done to them, and recognize that their voice has been eliminated. But they do not repent nor mourn the loss of their truthful witness in the Churches. These people who are from all over the world, from all kindreds (families), tongues (languages) and nations, who see the death of the witnesses in the wide ways do not care about them. We read that they do not bother to bury them. This is symbolizing that the people of the world who have come up into the Church have no regret, and they do not mourn for the fact that the witnesses of truth have been silenced in the City. There is no repentance shown for what they have done.

See, when you love someone, you mourn their death and you take their body up and bury it. But here we see the image which shows that 'none' cared for these faithful witnesses of God who testified to the truth, in that they didn't mourn their loss. That is what the language of, 'there was none to bury them,' signifies. None of the people of the world cared that the truth was not being brought anymore. No one cared that the Lord's servants were killed and their testimony in the Church silenced. The same illustration we saw in Psalms 79:1-4. No one cared that these servants of God were silenced or that God's house was an abomination. In fact, it is a relief to the unfaithful that the Word of God isn't preached in their church anymore! BECAUSE (deceived people that they are) they see it as better for them, for this allows their false teachings to be preached without the witnesses condemning it as the lawlessness it is. Unencumbered now, they can teach doctrines which are contrary to the law of God. Doctrines like those which trivialize the abomination of divorce and remarriage which God says He hates. Doctrines like those which teach that women can be the head of the Churches and rule over men. Doctrines which compromise the Grace of God, or which promotes earthly reigns, lusts and possession. The death of the witnesses to truth in the Church is not a cause for their mourning, it is the cause of their rejoicing. Because just as national Israel before them, they are deceived into thinking that they have done the Church a favor by silencing this witness of God's judgments and truth. So they can exchange their false doctrines together without worry about the faithful testimony of the Two Witnesses.

Now, where will all these things will take place at? STREET of the great city! IN THE CHURCH.... where the faithful Witnesses "can see" the abomination of desolatino standing where it does not belong! IN THE CHURCH!

Thats it for now.

I have to respectfully disagree with most of that. When they were teaching in the streets, the streets they were teaching in were literal streets.

When Jesus talked about the stones being torn down he was talking about literal stones of the temple.

I 100% agree there are spiritual meanings behind things but there has to be evidence that what’s being talked about it is truly spiritual.

For example we know there are two types of Jerusalem, earthly and heavenly. We know there are to types streets, literal streets and then these streets “Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight” obviously this verse isn’t talking about making literal walking paths straight.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I have to respectfully disagree with most of that. When they were teaching in the streets, the streets they were teaching in were literal streets.

I understand but that is not what God actually talked about.

When Jesus talked about the stones being torn down he was talking about literal stones of the temple.

Mat 24:1-2
(1) And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
(2) And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Joh 2:19-21
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.

Act 15:15-17
(15) And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
(16) After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
(17) That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

In Daniel 9:26, who are the people of the Prince who God said destroy the City and Temple (John 2:19)? ...Is it the Romans of 70 AD, or is it the people of Messiah (read in context) whom He had come to save? Both the city and the Temple were destroyed and leveled so that there was nothing left of them IF we understand the prophecy as God intended, as the spiritual Temple And City Jerusalem that was "Completely" destroyed/removed from the people, where not one stone was left standing (The people of that Temple and City). In other words, they were no longer representative of God's kingdom as it was taken from them. It was not physical temple or stones that the Lord talked about but PEOPLE of his congregation - his body of the temple. Christ has become a chief cornerstone of the rebuilding of THIS FALL. Not rebuilding out of literal bricks and stones. Selah.

Matthew 21:33-45

• "Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
• And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
• And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
• Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
• But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
• But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
• And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
• When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
• They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
• Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
• Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
• And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
• And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them."

The Meaning of Christ's parable is clear. The city and people were destroyed completely, and Christ is the cornerstone of a rebuilding that is kept from the eyes of the obstinate. If you insist the temple and stones that fell, then were is the rebuilding that Christ did in 3 days? Did it take place in 70AD? No.

I 100% agree there are spiritual meanings behind things but there has to be evidence that what’s being talked about it is truly spiritual.

It is. If you understand the the People of the Prince were the Jews at that time. They are the one who have came and destroy the temple. In God's eyes, those people were the stones of the Old Testament building! They are the builders of that building fell. They rejected the Messiah. It was not physical stones, God is talking about here but HIS OWN PEOPLE - the congregaiton of the people - the temple of his Body. SPIRITUALLY! So this is where the Lord has rebuilt the temple... in three days. It is STILL a spiritual temple where we, Christians, are also the lively stone of that building. Just like the Jews of Old.

For example we know there are two types of Jerusalem, earthly and heavenly. We know there are to types streets, literal streets and then these streets “Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight” obviously this verse isn’t talking about making literal walking paths straight.

Right, the Lord spoke of things all the time in Spiritual terms, symbolism, cryptic imagery, types and as shadows. It's not as if it's some new methodology never seen in the Bible before or something new that has just been invented.

Luke 3:3-6

• "And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;
• As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
• Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth;
• And all flesh shall see the salvation of God."

You didn't think Isaiah, under the inspiration of God, was actually declaring that a physical valley in Israel or Mountains or plains would be resettled, did you?

Isaiah 40:3

• "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God."

You didn't think Isaiah was talking about someone coming who was so talented in construction that he would build physical highways out in the Desert for the Lord to walk on, did you? So I don't really see what's to get? There's nothing new in this interpretation. The Jerusalem and her streets in view is NOT a physical city in the Middle East, but a spiritual city where the nations/gentiles to enter into that they might worship God.

 

[CTK]

In this case the problem is not me, it is you and your interpretation.

So, apparently then, my point went over your head. The text says the covenant is only being confirmed for one week. And that I find that odd if Christ is the one confirming it, as to why He would only be doing that for one week? You instead contradict the text by what you submitted here if your position is that Christ is the one confirming this.

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Point out in the text where it says---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for MORE THAN one week rather than for one week just like the text plainly says? IOW, how can---And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week--possibly mean 2 weeks, 3 weeks, a thousand weeks, so on and so on--anything but one week? IOW, God forbid that it can actually mean one week and for one week only, not more than one week instead. The text does not remotely say the latter, that the one confirming this confirms it for more than one week.

Part 1.

Hope you folks don't mind me jumping in here to offer my 2 cents. Today's accepted interpretations for 9:24-27, have been deeply corrupted by the futurist interpretation orchestrated by the RCC in the 16th century period (Reformation period). They commissioned the Jesuits to come up with an alternative interpretation where the papacy was not the "little horn" of Daniel 7 and 8. Prior to the reformation period the papacy was indeed believed to fulfill the prophecies in Daniel that they / he was the little horn. The way they attacked it, and were quite successful in removing the label and identify of the little horn from them was to focus on the messianic verses in Chapter 9. Specifically, the "destructive" verses of 26 and 27. They concentrated on the following:

1) they claimed the "he" at the beginning of 9:27 was not the Messiah but an "antiChrist" figure who had yet come upon the earth. This "he" would be a supernatural evil one who would come at the end of days. Consequently, they (papacy) could not be the little horn.

2) they also included within their new interpretation that the covenant was an "agreeement" that this boogeyman would enter into with Israel, but he would reneg on it after 3.5 years.

3) they essentially also claimed the last 7 years of the 70 weeks of years prophecy was thrown far into the future to a time when these events (above) would take place.

4) they also declared that this evil one will reneg this agreement after 3.5 years that provided an alternative to the phrase in 27, that "in the middle or in the midst" of the week.....

5) also, and at the time of this 3.5 year period, this antiChrist will destroy the Temple - a 3rd Temple that would be built. This covered the phrase of the "end of the sacrifice and the offerings."

6) this covenant mentioned in 27 is where they offer support for the last week of Daniel being thrown in to the future. They also include within this intentional and gross misinterRpretation that the covenant between this anti- Christ is FOR a 7 year period, thus trying to tie all of this together.

Unfortunately, as a result of their immense wealth and power, they would go out into the world, their schools, their universities, their Sunday churches, their Catechism, etc., and preach this interpretation to the children, their children and all the generations from the 16th century to today. Today, it is the "almost exclusively accepted interpretation" among scholars, academics, theologians, and church members - both Catholic and Protestant denominations. After some 500 years of teaching this and overpowering any alternative interpretation of these verses, this has almost become Gospel. But it is so wrong and so evil and so like the little horn that they truly are... Daniel 7 and 8 offer sufficient proof / verses on the identity of this little horn and it can only be one! There is absolutely no Scriptural support or evidence in Daniel, Revelation or Paul's Epistles, etc., that tell us an "antiChrist" figure will come upon the earth- ever. However, God has gone to great lengths to include in Daniel 7 and 8 enough information that reveals a real " little horn" figure, and the time of his coming. So that is, in a nutshell, the genesis for the 7 year tribulation theory or gap theory that was purposely designed by the papacy to remove the identity and label of the little horn from off of their back.

Part 2... in next submission.

 

[CTK]

Part 2.


Now, in my understanding, here is the true story:

1) Gabriel gave Daniel the 70 weeks of years prophecy which provided all the following (all within 9:24-27). And please remember, this was give TO THE JEWS AND THE CITY, (for your people and your holy city - Notice that Gabriel does not say, "for His holy people and His holy city. He specifically identifies it is "Daniel's people and city." This is important since this prophecy pertains to the restoration of the Jews and the city after the Babylonian destruction, not for any other people coming some 2000 years after the cross.

2) Verse 24 first established the external border and boundary for this 70 weeks of years prophecy. It is a prophecy that will take place for a total period of 490 years.

3) Verse 24 also tells us the 6 elements that the Messiah was given by His Father to fulfill during His ministry. And He fulfilled all 6 of them before He returned to His Father.

4) Verse 24 and 25 are both "restorative" verses. In verse 25, Gabriel tells us exactly when the Messiah will arrive and also when the streets and the walls will be built, and to restore and build Jerusalem. The "physical" elements mentioned in 25 (Temple, city, walls, etc.) as well as all the Levitical ceremonies, the 7 feast days, the sacrifices and offerings, etc., will be completed within the first 7 weeks or the first 49 years after the decree was issued by Artaxerxes. And they fulfilled their part in the restoration of everything that was either taken away or destroyed by the Babylonians. It also gives us the exact time when the Messiah will arrive. It will be AFTER (not before, not during, not in) but AFTER the 7 and 62 weeks have been completed. That means the first 69 weeks of the 70 total weeks prophecy are over. There is only one week or one 7 year period remaining.

a) The Messiah would literally arrive on the very first day of the start of the 70th week. He would arrive to be baptized in the Jordan by John and also anointed by His Father. This would begin His ministry and the last week of the prophecy. And as we saw in verse 25 that Gabriel identified the physical elements that would be restored BY THE JEWS and in an identified period, verse 24 provides us with those elements (9:24) that will be fulfilled by the Messiah and can only be fulfilled by the Messiah during His ministry in the last week.

b) Consequently, the 70 weeks of years prophecy can be viewed in two parts - those elements that will be restored by the Jews on earth that were taken away or destroyed, and those elements that will be restored by the Messiah while He is on the earth. The Babylonians took or destroyed EVERYTHING. But there was only one piece of the furniture within the Sanctuary they did not get their hands on - the Ark of the Covenant. Before the Babylonians came, Jeremiah took the Ark from the Sanctuary and hid it so they could not take it to Babylon. The Jews would restore everything that was taken or destroyed in the reverse order they were taken or destroyed. The ONLY thing they were incapable of restoring was the Ark of the Covenant - the presence of God in the Sanctuary. And this is why the Messiah could only arrive and would only arrive AFTER the Jews completed their restorative mission. The Messiah would restore the Ark of the Covenant in His person. He would represent the restoration of the Ark / presence of God in the Sanctuary.

5) Verses 24 and 25 are both "restorative" verses and it is no coincidence that the Messiah is predicted to arrive AFTER everything had been restored. But in verses 26 and 26, which are both "destructive" verses, Gabriel will provide us with the ugly side of things.

6) Now, Gabriel will provide us with the destruction of both the Messiah and the city and the Sanctuary. We are now going on the downside of the mountain. The Messiah will be "cut off" (crucified), AFTER the completion of the 62 weeks. And of course, the 62 weeks would only come after the completion of the first 7 weeks. So, the Messiah first had to arrive AFTER THE 69 WEEKS (VERSE 25), which would begin the 70th week, and now He will be crucified AFTER the 62 weeks are completed. Meaning, Gabriel had given us His arrival in the only remaining week left but would also tell us He would be "cut off" during this same time period - the last week.

7) Verse 26 also tells us the city and the Sanctuary will be destroyed and that certainly will take place in 70 AD.

8) And here is verse 27, the primary target of the little horn to corrupt. First, the "he" at the beginning of the verse is the Messiah.

9) He will confirm the Covenant with many (both Jews and Gentiles) NOT FOR A WEEK BUT DURING THIS SAME LAST WEEK OF THE PROPHECY. Only God enters in an agreement or covenant with His people and it is never a "timed agreement." In the first 20 verses of Chapter 9 Gabriel / Daniel refer to the "Covenant" with God, and His forgiveness of them breaking His covenant. But this particular covenant that He will confirm is mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31-34. Only God will / can make a covenant with His people - certainly no mythical antichrist figure some 2000 years in the future. And one can see that by changing the word "during the last week of the prophecy" versus " for a 7 year period' can change the meaning entirely. And that is what took place. It was DURING the last week of the 70 weeks prophecy the Messiah would go to the cross and confirm the New Covenant with His people.

10) In the middle or in the midst of the week. This is clearly referring to the cross. The Messiah would travel throughout Israel preaching the Good News for exactly 3.5 years until He went to Jerusalem for the last time. He arrived riding on a donkey and would be crucified exactly on Passover - 3.5 years from the beginning of His ministry - the first day of the last week of the prophecy. And as a result of His crucifixion, He would be the Passover Lamb of God and a Perfect and final sacrifice. His sacrifice for our sins would do away with the need for any further animal sacrifices or offerings.

There is absolutely NO antichrist figure but there is definitely a little horn figure - a man having eyes..... There is also the "spirit” of an "antichrist" - one who opposes anything of God... but not an actual person. Anyone who disobeys God, His commandments, worships other gods or idols and preaches a different Gospel that Jesus is having an "antichrist" spirit.”

 

[IndianaRob]

Part 1.

Hope you folks don't mind me jumping in here to offer my 2 cents. Today's accepted interpretations for 9:24-27, have been deeply corrupted by the futurist interpretation orchestrated by the RCC in the 16th century period (Reformation period). They commissioned the Jesuits to come up with an alternative interpretation where the papacy was not the "little horn" of Daniel 7 and 8. Prior to the reformation period the papacy was indeed believed to fulfill the prophecies in Daniel that they / he was the little horn. The way they attacked it, and were quite successful in removing the label and identify of the little horn from them was to focus on the messianic verses in Chapter 9. Specifically, the "destructive" verses of 26 and 27. They concentrated on the following:

1) they claimed the "he" at the beginning of 9:27 was not the Messiah but an "antiChrist" figure who had yet come upon the earth. This "he" would be a supernatural evil one who would come at the end of days. Consequently, they (papacy) could not be the little horn.

2) they also included within their new interpretation that the covenant was an "agreeement" that this boogeyman would enter into with Israel, but he would reneg on it after 3.5 years.

3) they essentially also claimed the last 7 years of the 70 weeks of years prophecy was thrown far into the future to a time when these events (above) would take place.

4) they also declared that this evil one will reneg this agreement after 3.5 years that provided an alternative to the phrase in 27, that "in the middle or in the midst" of the week.....

5) also, and at the time of this 3.5 year period, this antiChrist will destroy the Temple - a 3rd Temple that would be built. This covered the phrase of the "end of the sacrifice and the offerings."

6) this covenant mentioned in 27 is where they offer support for the last week of Daniel being thrown in to the future. They also include within this intentional and gross misinterRpretation that the covenant between this anti- Christ is FOR a 7 year period, thus trying to tie all of this together.

Unfortunately, as a result of their immense wealth and power, they would go out into the world, their schools, their universities, their Sunday churches, their Catechism, etc., and preach this interpretation to the children, their children and all the generations from the 16th century to today. Today, it is the "almost exclusively accepted interpretation" among scholars, academics, theologians, and church members - both Catholic and Protestant denominations. After some 500 years of teaching this and overpowering any alternative interpretation of these verses, this has almost become Gospel. But it is so wrong and so evil and so like the little horn that they truly are... Daniel 7 and 8 offer sufficient proof / verses on the identity of this little horn and it can only be one! There is absolutely no Scriptural support or evidence in Daniel, Revelation or Paul's Epistles, etc., that tell us an "antiChrist" figure will come upon the earth- ever. However, God has gone to great lengths to include in Daniel 7 and 8 enough information that reveals a real " little horn" figure, and the time of his coming. So that is, in a nutshell, the genesis for the 7 year tribulation theory or gap theory that was purposely designed by the papacy to remove the identity and label of the little horn from off of their back.

Part 2... in next submission.

Excellent post thanks!

 

[Earburner]

Part 2.


Now, in my understanding, here is the true story:

1) Gabriel gave Daniel the 70 weeks of years prophecy which provided all the following (all within 9:24-27). And please remember, this was give TO THE JEWS AND THE CITY, (for your people and your holy city - Notice that Gabriel does not say, "for His holy people and His holy city. He specifically identifies it is "Daniel's people and city." This is important since this prophecy pertains to the restoration of the Jews and the city after the Babylonian destruction, not for any other people coming some 2000 years after the cross.

2) Verse 24 first established the external border and boundary for this 70 weeks of years prophecy. It is a prophecy that will take place for a total period of 490 years.

3) Verse 24 also tells us the 6 elements that the Messiah was given by His Father to fulfill during His ministry. And He fulfilled all 6 of them before He returned to His Father.

4) Verse 24 and 25 are both "restorative" verses. In verse 25, Gabriel tells us exactly when the Messiah will arrive and also when the streets and the walls will be built, and to restore and build Jerusalem. The "physical" elements mentioned in 25 (Temple, city, walls, etc.) as well as all the Levitical ceremonies, the 7 feast days, the sacrifices and offerings, etc., will be completed within the first 7 weeks or the first 49 years after the decree was issued by Artaxerxes. And they fulfilled their part in the restoration of everything that was either taken away or destroyed by the Babylonians. It also gives us the exact time when the Messiah will arrive. It will be AFTER (not before, not during, not in) but AFTER the 7 and 62 weeks have been completed. That means the first 69 weeks of the 70 total weeks prophecy are over. There is only one week or one 7 year period remaining.

a) The Messiah would literally arrive on the very first day of the start of the 70th week. He would arrive to be baptized in the Jordan by John and also anointed by His Father. This would begin His ministry and the last week of the prophecy. And as we saw in verse 25 that Gabriel identified the physical elements that would be restored BY THE JEWS and in an identified period, verse 24 provides us with those elements (9:24) that will be fulfilled by the Messiah and can only be fulfilled by the Messiah during His ministry in the last week.

b) Consequently, the 70 weeks of years prophecy can be viewed in two parts - those elements that will be restored by the Jews on earth that were taken away or destroyed, and those elements that will be restored by the Messiah while He is on the earth. The Babylonians took or destroyed EVERYTHING. But there was only one piece of the furniture within the Sanctuary they did not get their hands on - the Ark of the Covenant. Before the Babylonians came, Jeremiah took the Ark from the Sanctuary and hid it so they could not take it to Babylon. The Jews would restore everything that was taken or destroyed in the reverse order they were taken or destroyed. The ONLY thing they were incapable of restoring was the Ark of the Covenant - the presence of God in the Sanctuary. And this is why the Messiah could only arrive and would only arrive AFTER the Jews completed their restorative mission. The Messiah would restore the Ark of the Covenant in His person. He would represent the restoration of the Ark / presence of God in the Sanctuary.

5) Verses 24 and 25 are both "restorative" verses and it is no coincidence that the Messiah is predicted to arrive AFTER everything had been restored. But in verses 26 and 26, which are both "destructive" verses, Gabriel will provide us with the ugly side of things.

6) Now, Gabriel will provide us with the destruction of both the Messiah and the city and the Sanctuary. We are now going on the downside of the mountain. The Messiah will be "cut off" (crucified), AFTER the completion of the 62 weeks. And of course, the 62 weeks would only come after the completion of the first 7 weeks. So, the Messiah first had to arrive AFTER THE 69 WEEKS (VERSE 25), which would begin the 70th week, and now He will be crucified AFTER the 62 weeks are completed. Meaning, Gabriel had given us His arrival in the only remaining week left but would also tell us He would be "cut off" during this same time period - the last week.

7) Verse 26 also tells us the city and the Sanctuary will be destroyed and that certainly will take place in 70 AD.

8) And here is verse 27, the primary target of the little horn to corrupt. First, the "he" at the beginning of the verse is the Messiah.

9) He will confirm the Covenant with many (both Jews and Gentiles) NOT FOR A WEEK BUT DURING THIS SAME LAST WEEK OF THE PROPHECY. Only God enters in an agreement or covenant with His people and it is never a "timed agreement." In the first 20 verses of Chapter 9 Gabriel / Daniel refer to the "Covenant" with God, and His forgiveness of them breaking His covenant. But this particular covenant that He will confirm is mentioned in Jeremiah 31:31-34. Only God will / can make a covenant with His people - certainly no mythical antichrist figure some 2000 years in the future. And one can see that by changing the word "during the last week of the prophecy" versus " for a 7 year period' can change the meaning entirely. And that is what took place. It was DURING the last week of the 70 weeks prophecy the Messiah would go to the cross and confirm the New Covenant with His people.

10) In the middle or in the midst of the week. This is clearly referring to the cross. The Messiah would travel throughout Israel preaching the Good News for exactly 3.5 years until He went to Jerusalem for the last time. He arrived riding on a donkey and would be crucified exactly on Passover - 3.5 years from the beginning of His ministry - the first day of the last week of the prophecy. And as a result of His crucifixion, He would be the Passover Lamb of God and a Perfect and final sacrifice. His sacrifice for our sins would do away with the need for any further animal sacrifices or offerings.

There is absolutely NO antichrist figure but there is definitely a little horn figure - a man having eyes..... There is also the "spirit” of an "antichrist" - one who opposes anything of God... but not an actual person. Anyone who disobeys God, His commandments, worships other gods or idols and preaches a different Gospel that Jesus is having an "antichrist" spirit.”

Excellent Post. It is in everyway the teaching of the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor. 2:5.
Virtually in parallel has my understanding been the same, as I have spoken it forth in similar words, throughout the following thread:

There are 2 tribulation periods, the “first” is to the Jews

Many speak of the tribulation to come, and there is in fact a Great Tribulation to come upon the entire world by way of God’s wrath being poured out on the inhabitants of the world. But many do not understand that there are actually 2 tribulation periods mentioned in scripture. In Romans 2:9 we...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[TribulationSigns]

1) Gabriel gave Daniel the 70 weeks of years prophecy which provided all the following (all within 9:24-27). And please remember, this was give TO THE JEWS AND THE CITY, (for your people and your holy city - Notice that Gabriel does not say, "for His holy people and His holy city. He specifically identifies it is "Daniel's people and city." This is important since this prophecy pertains to the restoration of the Jews and the city after the Babylonian destruction, not for any other people coming some 2000 years after the cross.

Again, you are wrong. This is not what God said about Daniel's people. Please allow Scripture to be its own interpreter on who Daniel's people are

Yes, the 70 weeks are determined upon thy people. The question is, who are Daniel's people? We need to go no further than the preceding verses. Verse 20 of Daniel 9 says Daniel was praying and confessing the sins of himself and "His People, Israel." We should allow Scirpture to interpret who Daniel's people are!

Dan 9:20
(20) And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

Again the question is who is his people Israel that God will make reconciliation for iniquity per Daniel 9:24?

2nd Corinthians 5:18

• "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.
• To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."

This is what Daniel means by making an end of sins and that reconciliation is made for iniquity. This verse 24 of Daniel chapter 9 is clearly speaking of the Messiah's atonement FOR THE SINS OF ISRAEL, by the work of the cross. Not national Israel as you thought but covenant Israel!

Luke 1:68-70

• "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
• And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
• As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:"

There the prophecy is FULFILLED as Daniel's people Israel has their Messiah come, that their sins would be closed up (or come to an end), and that reconciliation would be made. And that is exactly what Christ, who was Israel's Messiah, did.

Hebrews 2:17

• "Wherefore in all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of The People."

The same as the prophecy we read in Daniel 9:20 where he was praying for the sins of His people! That Messiah would come for the reconciliation of the sins of His people. And this was fulfilled in Christ's atonement. This is WHY God was response to Daniel's prayer about His people and His City. God sees Daniel's people as all Elect from the Old Testament and New Testament including GENTILES IN CHRIST! Have you already forgotten that we Gentiles have grafted into the covenant tree along with the Jews and we all are God's people? We, Gentiles, will sit next to Adam, Job, David, and guess what Daniel in the Kingdom of Heaven since we all are God's people! Not the Jews only! So this is why God had to come down to Earth to confirm a covenant with Daniel's people (Dan 9:27) by going to the Cross and He did NOT exclude the Gentiles to be considered as Daniel's people. Perish the thought! We are indeed Daniel's people too! And we all are Holy City Jersualem since it is a bride of Christ who He has gone to the Cross for!! Not the Jews or a physical city only which is an absurd doctrine of the Preterism.

Selah!

 

[CTK]

Again, you are wrong. This is not what God said about Daniel's people. Please allow Scripture to be its own interpreter on who Daniel's people are

Yes, the 70 weeks are determined upon thy people. The question is, who are Daniel's people? We need to go no further than the preceding verses. Verse 20 of Daniel 9 says Daniel was praying and confessing the sins of himself and "His People, Israel." We should allow Scirpture to interpret who Daniel's people are!

Dan 9:20
(20) And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

Again the question is who is his people Israel that God will make reconciliation for iniquity per Daniel 9:24?

2nd Corinthians 5:18

• "And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation.
• To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation."

This is what Daniel means by making an end of sins and that reconciliation is made for iniquity. This verse 24 of Daniel chapter 9 is clearly speaking of the Messiah's atonement FOR THE SINS OF ISRAEL, by the work of the cross. Not national Israel as you thought but covenant Israel!

I agree the "people and the city" are referring to Daniel's people and Jerusalem. The entire 70 weeks of years prophecy is for the complete restoration of the Jews and Jerusalem. What is national Israel? Not sure what you are reading into my words.... but you might want to calm down before you respond... This issue can easily be discussed... if I have given you the wrong impression, we can discuss it, but I don't see what you are saying has come from my responses....

Luke 1:68-70

• "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
• And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
• As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:"

There the prophecy is FULFILLED as Daniel's people Israel has their Messiah come, that their sins would be closed up (or come to an end), and that reconciliation would be made. And that is exactly what Christ, who was Israel's Messiah, did.

Hebrews 2:17

• "Wherefore in all things it behooved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of The People."

The same as the prophecy we read in Daniel 9:20 where he was praying for the sins of His people! That Messiah would come for the reconciliation of the sins of His people. And this was fulfilled in Christ's atonement. This is WHY God was response to Daniel's prayer about His people and His City. God sees Daniel's people as all Elect from the Old Testament and New Testament including GENTILES IN CHRIST! Have you already forgotten that we Gentiles have grafted into the covenant tree along with the Jews and we all are God's people? We, Gentiles, will sit next to Adam, Job, David, and guess what Daniel in the Kingdom of Heaven since we all are God's people! Not the Jews only! So this is why God had to come down to Earth to confirm a covenant with Daniel's people (Dan 9:27) by going to the Cross and He did NOT exclude the Gentiles to be considered as Daniel's people. Perish the thought! We are indeed Daniel's people too! And we all are Holy City Jersualem since it is a bride of Christ who He has gone to the Cross for!! Not the Jews or a physical city only which is an absurd doctrine of the Preterism.

Selah!

Well, you are not going to get an argument from me... Certainly what you say is true.... But once again, I have no idea why any of my words or responses would give you the impression otherwise..... Once you pull the trigger, the bullet is gone.....

 

[TribulationSigns]

I agree the "people and the city" are referring to Daniel's people and Jerusalem. The entire 70 weeks of years prophecy is for the complete restoration of the Jews and Jerusalem. What is national Israel? Not sure what you are reading into my words.... but you might want to calm down before you respond... This issue can easily be discussed... if I have given you the wrong impression, we can discuss it, but I don't see what you are saying has come from my responses....

I have no idea why any of my words or responses would give you the impression otherwise.....

Stop playing innocent with me. You wrote:

"1) Gabriel gave Daniel the 70 weeks of years prophecy which provided all the following (all within 9:24-27). And please remember, this was give TO THE JEWS AND THE CITY, (for your people and your holy city - Notice that Gabriel does not say, "for His holy people and His holy city. He specifically identifies it is "Daniel's people and city." This is important since this prophecy pertains to the restoration of the Jews and the city after the Babylonian destruction, not for any other people coming some 2000 years after the cross."

This is where you got this wrong. Daniel's people and Jersualem are NOT what you thought - the restoration of ethnic Jews and physical city Jerusalem. The Scripture I quoted in my previous post corrects your false interpretation because you got wrong Daniel's people and the Holy City to begin with.

 

[CTK]

Stop playing innocent with me. You wrote:

"1) Gabriel gave Daniel the 70 weeks of years prophecy which provided all the following (all within 9:24-27). And please remember, this was give TO THE JEWS AND THE CITY, (for your people and your holy city - Notice that Gabriel does not say, "for His holy people and His holy city. He specifically identifies it is "Daniel's people and city." This is important since this prophecy pertains to the restoration of the Jews and the city after the Babylonian destruction, not for any other people coming some 2000 years after the cross."

This is where you got this wrong. Daniel's people and Jersualem are NOT what you thought - the restoration of ethnic Jews and physical city Jerusalem. The Scripture I quoted in my previous post corrects your false interpretation because you got wrong Daniel's people and the Holy City to begin with.

Alright, I still have no idea what you are talking about and I certainly have no intention of continuing any form of discussion with you. You are an angry individual.


Last time- and I do mean last time I will respond to you... most people contend that these verses are speaking about "end time events." It was and is my contention that these verses do not speak to any group of people at the time of the end. Instead, these verses speak to the Jews and Jerusalem - those who will return to their homeland after the destruction of everything by the Babylonians.. I think that should be clear enough... Please go fight with someone else...

 

[Douggg]

And they fulfilled their part in the restoration of everything that was either taken away or destroyed by the Babylonians. It also gives us the exact time when the Messiah will arrive. It will be AFTER (not before, not during, not in) but AFTER the 7 and 62 weeks have been completed.

Actually what the kjv says is....

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

....the word "after" does not appear in the text. But 7 weeks and 62 weeks - "unto the Messiah the Prince".

i.e. the messiah would arrive in the 69th week..........

Nothing is said in the text about the length of the messiah's ministry.

In verse 26, is the "after" of the 69 weeks total, the messiah would be cutoff.

In John 12:12-15, Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, hailed as the messiah, in the 69th week. Four days later he was crucified. Which could be as little as 1 day after the 69th week is over.

1 day is negligible in terms of 7 years.

The 70th week of Daniel 9 is still unfulfilled. And cannot be fulfilled until the time of the end because the vision in verses 21, 22, 23, 24 is that of the time of the end little horn's activities of Daniel 8.

 

[CTK]

Actually what the kjv says is....

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

....the word "after" does not appear in the text. But 7 weeks and 62 weeks - "unto the Messiah the Prince".

i.e. the messiah would arrive in the 69th week..........

Nothing is said in the text about the length of the messiah's ministry.

In verse 26, is the "after" of the 69 weeks total, the messiah would be cutoff.

In John 12:12-15, Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, hailed as the messiah, in the 69th week. Four days later he was crucified. Which could be as little as 1 day after the 69th week is over.

1 day is negligible in terms of 7 years.

The 70th week of Daniel 9 is still unfulfilled. And cannot be fulfilled until the time of the end because the vision in verses 21, 22, 23, 24 is that of the time of the end little horn's activities of Daniel 8.

Dougg, I appreciate your obvious enthusiasm and respect your opinions on this.... we just interpret these verses very differently... and that is okay... Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and views.... and yours are no less valuable than mine.