Counting to Three

[RedFan]

Matt. 12:39-40 tells us: "But he answered them, ‘An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was for three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth."

Three nights? I count Friday night plus Saturday night. But the resurrection was Sunday morning. So, when was the third night? If "three days" were all that the passage had mentioned, we could make an argument for fulfillment even though less than 48 hours elapsed between crucifixion and resurrection. But three nights? Someone needs to help me with that.

 

[JohnDB]

Matt. 12:39-40 tells us: "But he answered them, ‘An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was for three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth."

Three nights? I count Friday night plus Saturday night. But the resurrection was Sunday morning. So, when was the third night? If "three days" were all that the passage had mentioned, we could make an argument for fulfillment even though less than 48 hours elapsed between crucifixion and resurrection. But three nights? Someone needs to help me with that.

Is Jesus God? Part of the Trinity?
God is One of course....
Can you put God in a box?
Is there metaphoric language used in scripture?
Paradox in scripture?

 

[face2face]

Matt. 12:39-40 tells us: "But he answered them, ‘An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was for three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth."

Three nights? I count Friday night plus Saturday night. But the resurrection was Sunday morning. So, when was the third night? If "three days" were all that the passage had mentioned, we could make an argument for fulfillment even though less than 48 hours elapsed between crucifixion and resurrection. But three nights? Someone needs to help me with that.

Three days and three nights, represents a Semitic idiom for any portion of three calendar days. So there is no need to see a contradiction with the traditional chronology, including a Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection or to propose any alternative chronologies.

F2F

 

[Aunty Jane]

Matt. 12:39-40 tells us: "But he answered them, ‘An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For just as Jonah was for three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth."

Three nights? I count Friday night plus Saturday night. But the resurrection was Sunday morning. So, when was the third night? If "three days" were all that the passage had mentioned, we could make an argument for fulfillment even though less than 48 hours elapsed between crucifixion and resurrection. But three nights? Someone needs to help me with that.

Some argue from Jesus’ words….. “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” (Matt 12:40) This would seem to mean a full 72 hours, but we must not ignore other similar expressions that show the actual intent of the words.
In the Bible “three days” does not necessarily mean three full days, but may mean parts of three different days. Hence when Rehoboam told the people to return in “three days” they came back on “the third day, as the king had appointed”. (1 Kings 12:5, 12)

Jesus spoke of himself as being resurrected on “the third day”. (Luke 24:46) Repeatedly the Scriptures speak of Jesus as being raised on the third day; but if he had remained in the grave three full days, or 72 hours, it would have been the fourth day. Jesus was put to death on a Friday afternoon, remained in the grave Saturday, and was raised Sunday morning.
Referring to Jonah, Jesus was acknowledging Jonah’s confinement inside the fish that swallowed him….Jesus was also confined to his grave for parts of three days. Being raised on “the third day” was the fulfillment of the prophesy.

 

[RedFan]

Three days and three nights, represents a Semitic idiom for any portion of three calendar days. S

I've never heard that before. Any other examples????

 

[RedFan]

Is Jesus God? Part of the Trinity?
God is One of course....
Can you put God in a box?
Is there metaphoric language used in scripture?
Paradox in scripture?

I'm sure there is an answer to my question in there somewhere, but I can't find it. Are you suggesting that calling the period from, say, 3 PM on Friday to, say, 6 AM on Sunday "three nights" is a metaphor, or a paradox?

 

[RedFan]

Jesus was put to death on a Friday afternoon, remained in the grave Saturday, and was raised Sunday morning.

Agreed. So, where in that stretch of time do we find even a part of a third night?

 

[face2face]

I've never heard that before. Any other examples????

Influences from Semitic languages on the text of the Greek New Testament. Because the Greek New Testament has a significantly Jewish background, its Semitic influences mainly derive from Hebrew and Aramaic (see Moule, Idiom Book, 170–71). Semitisms fall into the categories of vocabulary and style in the Greek New Testament (Wallace, Greek Grammar beyond the Basics, 24–29; see Moule, Idiom Book, 171–91; Voelz, “The Language of the New Testament,” 957–64; Wilcox, “Semitisms in the New Testament”; BDF, 273, s.v. “Semitisms”). The kinds and degrees of Semitic influence vary by book (BDF, §4; Wallace, Greek Grammar beyond the Basics

There is plenty written on the subject. It can be rather dry going but if you are interest in language it can be interesting.

If you want more works to look up let me know.

F2F

Besides proper names, the standard text of the Greek New Testament includes approximately 212 uses of 21 distinct loan words: • ἀμήν (amēn) (amen, truly)—129 uses • πάσχα (pascha) (passover)—29 uses • ῥαββί (rhabbi) (rabbi)—15 uses • ὡσαννά (hōsanna) (hosanna)—6 uses • ἁλληλουϊά (hallēlouia) (hallelujah)—4 uses • μάννα (manna)—4 uses • ἀββά (abba) (abba, father)—3 uses • μαμωνᾶς (mamōnas) (mamon)—3 uses • ἐλωΐ (elōi) (my God)—2 uses • ἠλί (ēli) (my God)—2 uses • λεμά (lema) (why)—2 uses • ῥαββουνί (rhabbouni) (my master)—2 uses • σαβαχθάνι (sabachthani) (you have forsaken me)—2 uses • σαβαώθ (sabaōth) (hosts)—2 uses • ἐφφαθά (ephphatha) (be opened)—once • θά (tha) (come)—once • κορβᾶν (korban) (corban, a gift consecrated to God)—once • κοῦμ (koum) (stand up)—once • μαράνα (marana) (our Lord)—once • ῥακά (rhaka) (fool)—once • ταλιθά (talitha) (little girl)—once

J. David Stark, Semitisms in the NT in The Lexham Bible Dictionary, ed. John D. Barry et al. (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2016).

An example: The Gospels call Solomon’s admirer “queen of the South” (Mt. 12:42; Lk. 11:31), where the Greek (basílissa nótou) reflects a Semitic idiom (cf. M. Black, Aramaic Approach to the Gospels and Acts, p. 68) like malkaṯ šeḇāʾ. Using “south” for “Sheba” highlights the length of the journey, whose rigor contrasts with the ready access of Jesus’ audiences, rather than its place of origin.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Agreed. So, where in that stretch of time do we find even a part of a third night?

We don’t, but again it is the intent of the words…..he was referring to Jonah’s experience…..and the Semitic understanding that a day included the night…a day began at sundown, so naturally included the night. Don’t we include nights in the counting of our days? Thursday night for Jews was part of Friday….Friday night was part of Saturday…..and Saturday night was part of Sunday….
Its nit picking….really.

 

[Lambano]

I've never heard that before. Any other examples????

The Heart of the Earth uses the same accounting system as a certain rental car agency. I picked up the car at 2:00 p.m. Tuesday, turned it in at noon Friday. 70 hours. Less than 3 full 24-hour days. They charged me for Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, four days.

Then Jesus had to spend a couple of days after the Ascension getting His expense account straightened out.

 

[JohnDB]

I'm sure there is an answer to my question in there somewhere, but I can't find it. Are you suggesting that calling the period from, say, 3 PM on Friday to, say, 6 AM on Sunday "three nights" is a metaphor, or a paradox?

What I am saying:

"Let every man be a liar so God can be true"

People have poked and poked at this for years.
WHY?
The length Jesus stayed "dead" is more than long enough. He was dead. The spear in his side where his blood had coagulated to the point of separating out from the plasma is more than sufficient.

Then Jesus's body was placed in a tomb, then sealed, and had guards placed over his body. But Jesus, being God, is more than just a body...capable of being in more than one place at one time and too immeasurable to measure.

That's what I'm saying.

 

[Lambano]

If you look around this site or on the internet, you can find people who can make a case for a Thursday crucifixion, a Friday Passover that is treated like a Sabbath, the regular Sabbath on Saturday, then the Resurrection on Sunday.

But then we'd have to celebrate "Sure Happy It's Thursday" instead of "Good Friday".

 

[Jay Ross]

If you look around this site or on the internet, you can find people who can make a case for a Thursday crucifixion, a Friday Passover that is treated like a Sabbath, the regular Sabbath on Saturday, then the Resurrection on Sunday.

But then we'd have to celebrate "Sure Happy It's Thursday" instead of "Good Friday".

Yes, in putting all of the Easter story events into a chronological timeline, it is easy to see that there are many errors in our understanding.

Take the Palm Sunday celebration in our churches today on Sunday, because that is the first day of the week according to our calendar, but Jesus rode the Ass into Jerusalem on what we would describe as during the Saturday twilight, then when He entered the Temple, because the light was fading fast Jesus turned the colt around and headed back towards Bethany.

Jesus's arrival in Bethany, took place just before the sun set at the conclusion of what we would call Friday, with the Sabbath day starting when the sun had set. We are also told that Jesus had arrived in Bethany six days before the Passover feast would commence when the Sun had gone down on the Thursday evening after Jesus had died at 3:00 pm on Thursday. Jesus body was taken down from the cross and transferred to the Tomb, again before the sun had gone down which heralded the start of the Friday Passover.

This means that Jesus spent part of the Thursday in the tomb, all of the Friday in the tomb, all of the Saturday in the Tomb, and part of Sunday in the Tomb before the tomb was opened after the sun had risen. As such, Jesus was in the tomb for three days, just like Jonah had spent three days in the fish.

To resolve our understanding of how long Jesus spent in the Tomb, we have to be able to translate the Jewish days to our time frame for us in 2025 next year to make any sense of the crucifixion story.

Oh well,

Shalom

 

[RedFan]

Influences from Semitic languages on the text of the Greek New Testament. Because the Greek New Testament has a significantly Jewish background, its Semitic influences mainly derive from Hebrew and Aramaic (see Moule, Idiom Book, 170–71). Semitisms fall into the categories of vocabulary and style in the Greek New Testament (Wallace, Greek Grammar beyond the Basics, 24–29; see Moule, Idiom Book, 171–91; Voelz, “The Language of the New Testament,” 957–64; Wilcox, “Semitisms in the New Testament”; BDF, 273, s.v. “Semitisms”). The kinds and degrees of Semitic influence vary by book (BDF, §4; Wallace, Greek Grammar beyond the Basics

There is plenty written on the subject. It can be rather dry going but if you are interest in language it can be interesting.

If you want more works to look up let me know.

F2F

Besides proper names, the standard text of the Greek New Testament includes approximately 212 uses of 21 distinct loan words: • ἀμήν (amēn) (amen, truly)—129 uses • πάσχα (pascha) (passover)—29 uses • ῥαββί (rhabbi) (rabbi)—15 uses • ὡσαννά (hōsanna) (hosanna)—6 uses • ἁλληλουϊά (hallēlouia) (hallelujah)—4 uses • μάννα (manna)—4 uses • ἀββά (abba) (abba, father)—3 uses • μαμωνᾶς (mamōnas) (mamon)—3 uses • ἐλωΐ (elōi) (my God)—2 uses • ἠλί (ēli) (my God)—2 uses • λεμά (lema) (why)—2 uses • ῥαββουνί (rhabbouni) (my master)—2 uses • σαβαχθάνι (sabachthani) (you have forsaken me)—2 uses • σαβαώθ (sabaōth) (hosts)—2 uses • ἐφφαθά (ephphatha) (be opened)—once • θά (tha) (come)—once • κορβᾶν (korban) (corban, a gift consecrated to God)—once • κοῦμ (koum) (stand up)—once • μαράνα (marana) (our Lord)—once • ῥακά (rhaka) (fool)—once • ταλιθά (talitha) (little girl)—once

J. David Stark, Semitisms in the NT in The Lexham Bible Dictionary, ed. John D. Barry et al. (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2016).

An example: The Gospels call Solomon’s admirer “queen of the South” (Mt. 12:42; Lk. 11:31), where the Greek (basílissa nótou) reflects a Semitic idiom (cf. M. Black, Aramaic Approach to the Gospels and Acts, p. 68) like malkaṯ šeḇāʾ. Using “south” for “Sheba” highlights the length of the journey, whose rigor contrasts with the ready access of Jesus’ audiences, rather than its place of origin.

I'm only focused on this particular Semitic idiom -- using "three days and three nights" as a shorthand for two sunsets and two dawns, say, Friday afternoon to Sunday morning.

 

[Lambano]

I'm only focused on this particular Semitic idiom -- using "three days and three nights" as a shorthand for two sunsets and two dawns, say, Friday afternoon to Sunday morning.

Well....

The traditional version of the Apostle's creed says, "He descended into Hell". Maybe He didn't like it there (and who could blame Him?) and decided to rise from the dead a day early.

 

[Fred J]

It was close to the preparation for the Sabbath day after 6 pm. Therefore the Roman guards receive orders to speed up the death of the criminals on the Cross. Jesus also was pierced by them using a spear to ensure He's truly dead. It would have taken them time to bring down the bodies and place them.

Then goes Joseph of Arimathaea a disciple of Jesus, to Pilate to beg for the body of Jesus, also took some time. Then Joseph took His body to a place, since nearing sabbath, probably he couldn't clean the body, but just wrapped Him in a clean linen cloth. Apparently also took time, and next Jesus' body was laid in his new tomb.

By the time He was buried, it was close to the Sabbath day after 6pm. Therefore it couldn't be considered as 'day', but rather 'night' that He was already inside the tomb 'buried'. The prophecy is about Jesus being in the heart of the earth being 'buried' and counting, not His death.

Matthew 12:
40. For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Clearly exact counting will be, 12 hours of days and 12 hours of nights, resulting to 24 hours a day. For Jesus' burial count starts out by nights and then days, making it 3 nights and 3 days. Sun rises in Jerusalem just after 6 am, as when the women discovered the tomb was already empty. But according to Jewish calendar, a day of 24 hours, starts from 'sunset' to 'sunset'.

It is written, on the first day of the week and at sunrise, the tomb was already discovered empty. By now on this first day, as 'sunset' to 'sunset', 12 hours of Sunday 'night' have already gone by. Hence, clocking forward at sun rise another 12 hours of Sunday 'day' to go, making it a full day.

In Jerusalem, Jesus was buried at 'sunset', where a new day 'Thursday' starts at 'night' clocking 12 hours, until 'day' another 12 hours, finishing at the next 'sunset'. Therefore, Jesus resurrected after Saturday's 'sunset', marking it 'Sunday' at 'night' in Jerusalem. This is the correct measure fulfilling the prophecy, 3 days and 3 nights, or 3 nights and 3 days in the heart of the earth.

In Jerusalem that day, Thursday night was marking the yearly Sabbath in observation by the Jews, besides the weekly Sabbath.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

 

[Lambano]

So, how do we know that "three days and three nights" should be interpreted literally?

Think about it.

 

[Lambano]

Jesus is using Jonah as a metaphor, for crying out loud.

 

[RedFan]

It was close to the preparation for the Sabbath day after 6 pm.

Yes. Late Friday afternoon.

By the time He was buried, it was close to the Sabbath day after 6pm.

Yes. Late Friday afternoon.

It is written, on the first day of the week and at sunrise, the tomb was already discovered empty.

Yes. Sunrise on Sunday.

This means that Jesus spent part of the Thursday in the tomb,

No. He was still on the cross on Friday afternoon.

 

[RedFan]

Jesus is using Jonah as a metaphor, for crying out loud.

Yup. Pretty sure everybody here realizes this.