Church Bashing

[stunnedbygrace]

Assuming you are sincere in your request, all you have to do is read about (1) the resurrection of the daughter of Jairus, (2) the resurrection of the widow's son in Nain, and (3) the resurrection of Lazarus (all miracles of Christ), to know that souls are imperishable and eternal.

Just because God raises a man to life again does not mean he is born eternal. If he were born eternal, he would not need to be raised again.

Adam died on the day he ate. The dead cannot bring forth the living. They were made to bring forth of their own kind.

 

[marks]

One is still walking... He's alive physically... Dead in sin. He is not dead. But the soul that sinneth...it shall die.

Do you maintain the same definition of death in both cases? Or do you consider one of them to refer to, "dead, but not really"?

Much love!

 

[marks]

But I’m not to the never mind point. It’s too important. Eternal torment of unbelievers leads to judging and condemning them when we aren’t supposed to do that. We are told to leave their judging to God and not judge anything before the time. And when we do that, we are also speaking wrongly about God and ignoring the warning that we will be judged as we’ve judged them. The doctrine harms those who swallow the leaven.

It's not been a productive or fruitful or edifying convo. IMO.

Much love!

 

[marks]

To be dead in trespasses and sins means to be dead spiritually. The spirit is dead but the body and soul are alive. And because souls are imperishable, the souls do live on forever. If un-regenerated, they remain in Hades until the final judgment.

This is what people don't seem to get, Adam's race is already dead. They remain dead. The second death is permanently dead. Still dead. But when they use a wrong definition of death all this confusion results.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It's not been a productive or fruitful or edifying convo. IMO.

Much love!

I disagree. I think some already know by scripture what I am saying and some others will begin to see the doctrine is incorrect by scripture. So I don’t see it as unfruitful.

 

[Taken]

Im so sorry, I couldn’t follow this. If you could explain with verses I might be able to.

It’s not a collection of billeted verses, but rather a study of each thing...pertaining to a man, his body, his soul, his spirit.

 

[marks]

Eternal torment of unbelievers leads to judging and condemning them when we aren’t supposed to do that.

That's not true. People judge because they are judgmental. Don't ascribe poor attitudes and poor self control and pride on a doctrine the Bible is specific about.

No matter what the final state of the unbeliever, it's not on people to judge, period.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I disagree. I think some already know by scripture what I am saying and some others will begin to see the doctrine is incorrect by scripture. So I don’t see it as unfruitful.

For me, you give far too many "non-answers". So I'm just not interested.

Much love!

 

[marks]

To be dead in trespasses and sins means to be dead spiritually. The spirit is dead but the body and soul are alive. And because souls are imperishable, the souls do live on forever. If un-regenerated, they remain in Hades until the final judgment.

Death is not cessation of activity or existence, death is separation.

Spiritual death is separation from God, while remaining active in a body. Physical death is separation from that body, while remaining a soul. Second death is the lake of fire.

The ancient Hebrews understood that the "worm" in Isaiah 66, the worm dieth not, that the worm is what remains of the soul of a man whom God has destroyed.

I don't see the comfort of annihilation available to the wicked.

Much love!

@stunnedbygrace

 

[stunnedbygrace]

For me, you give far too many "non-answers". So I'm just not interested.

Much love!

And yet, oddly, I use more scripture…

 

[marks]

And yet, oddly, I use more scripture…

I'm guessing you aren't recognizing my quotes and allusions, I'll try to keep that in mind.

Much love!

 

[marks]

And yet, oddly, I use more scripture…

And still, you've ignored and non-answered a number of my posts to you.

You can make claims of posting substance, but I don't see it.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't see the comfort of annihilation available to the wicked.

That’s because you don’t believe death is really death and you don’t believe the second death is really death.
Also, you don’t believe dead in sin and trespass is death.
You believe eternal life means to live forever and you believe eternal death means to live forever.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm guessing you aren't recognizing my quotes and allusions, I'll try to keep that in mind.

Much love!

Yes, you are right, I don’t recognize them.

 

[marks]

That’s because you don’t believe death is really death and you don’t believe the second death is really death.
Also, you don’t believe dead in sin and trespass is death.
You believe eternal life means to live forever and you believe eternal death means to live forever.

I don't think you have adequate understanding of what I believe to speak for me, and I'll appreciate if you were to stop.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How is a man both dead, and still alive?

Indeed!
And how will a man die and yet still be alive?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't think you have adequate understanding of what I believe to speak for me, and I'll appreciate if you were to stop.

Much love!

You’ve spoken for yourself. You believe, by your own words, that no man really dies and that all men exist eternally.

 

[marks]

Matthew 25:46 LITV
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.

We need to be able to deal with verses like this without needed to change the meanings of the words. The word meanings need to remain consistent with the other places they are used.

I always love what Dr. Walter Martin used to say . . . Words have meanings.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Indeed!
And how will a man die and yet still be alive?

You still apparently hold to a definition of death that does not fit the Bible.

Ephesians 2:1 LITV
and you being dead in deviations and sins,

How can this verse be true of someone living??

Much love!

 

[marks]

You’ve spoken for yourself. You believe, by your own words, that no man really dies and that all men exist eternally.

You don't speak for me, you obviously have a different definition of death.

You claim that I say no one dies? Yes, I really think you don't understand what I'm saying. You hold to your own definition of death, and you try to make mockery of my words by trying to wrap them around your definition.

Much love!