Of course we can't declare ourselves spotless by sheer force of will...only Jesus' blood can do that. However, Peter makes it clear salvation is obtained only by repentance, which is a choice we all must make. As stated previously, choice is not works, it's "thought".
But in saying this, Phoneman, you're saying our salvation depends on our choice. At least that's what I think I hear, and if I'm correct, that is in direct opposition to Romans 9:16, which says our election, which is of God, depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Just the mention of Christian Obligation stirs up mob mentality in them.
God's grace comes to us free initially. It is not conditional on anything we do or do not do. But yes, then it demands responsibility. We have a responsibility ~ yes, even an obligation ~ to live as is becoming of a follower of Christ. We could break that down and talk about what that specifically looks like, but generally, for purposes of this conversation, I think we can leave it at that. If you agree with that, then we're good.
I will say, though, that the word 'obligation,' or even 'duty,' seems wrongly inferred. If a man gets his wife flowers one day out of the blue, and she asks him why he did it, and he says, "Well, I'm obligated to you," or "It's my duty," I don't think the wife would have a very good reaction to that... :) The word 'obligation' seems to connote, at least somewhat, "Well, I do it because I have to, not because I want to." I would state it the way John does in 1 John 4:19, that we love because He (God) first loved us. In this sense, we want to love and serve God and give Him glory, because we love Him, among other things. But I think we agree, generally speaking.
If our choices matter not, why all this talk about our need to choose? I think you've just restated in a different way the same thing I said...obedience is outward evidence of us having been saved, and the lack thereof is evidence to the contrary.
Right, and I think we've agreed on this before now. I've said this very thing several times.
Matthew 24:12-13 KJV destroys the idea of OSAS. It plainly contrasts the "many" of verse 12 who allowed abounding iniquity to kill their love "cold" and dead -- with "he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved".
Hmm. Disagree, of course. Jesus is here speaking along the very same lines as John in his first epistle (actually John speaking along the very same lines as Jesus) in saying:
"Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge. I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life."
In both what Jesus says in Matthew 24:12-13 and what John says in 1 John 2:18-25, the ones that prove themselves to be false prophets, men of lawlessness, those whose love grows cold (Matthew 24), and those who go out from us, not continuing with us, proving they are not of us (! John 2) are those who, though they may have shared fellowship with Christians for a time and even thought they were Christians, fall away because they were never called by God and born again of the Spirit in the first place.
So, Matthew 24:12-13 does nothing to "destroy" OSAS, but even affirms it, as does 1 John 2. I think you guys are seeing "OSAS" in an antinomian light. In other words, yes, there are some of believe in "OSAS" ~ and I'm putting it in scare quotes for a reason ~ in the light that there are no consequences for sin anymore, and in that light, it is a license to sin, that "hey, I can do whatever I want, sin however I want, and God will not do anything about it, because I've saved." And that is
totally wrong. God issues judgments even now, and, well, disciplines those He loves. There are most definitely consequences of sin, and sometimes very harsh consequences. God issues no "license to sin." There is no condemnation for sin for those who are in Christ Jesus, as Paul states in Romans 8:1. But by no means does Paul (or any other biblical writer) say that there are no more consequences for sin, even for those who are in Christ Jesus. He addresses that very thing earlier in Romans:
"What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness." (Romans 6:15-18)
However, if one thinks of "OSAS" in the light that Peter states it, then it is an irrefutable truth. I don't know how many times I've posted these scriptures now, but again:
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 3-5)
Grace and peace to you.
