Christians and Jews are both anti Acts 2:38.

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Phoneman777

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You are very condemning and hold comtempt against Christians who hold differents views.
Are you a Catholic? That would explain the gulf between us. I ha e differences with Catholics but do not condemn them. I consider them part of the Body of Christ - at least half of it.
I knew a former Catholic man who staunchly insisted that no Catholic will be in heaven. I tried to reason with him that God judges us according to what degree of truth we were enlightened and winks at our ignorance, but to no avail. He also seemed to be leaning toward Calvinism. Got him to come to church on Sabbath a couple times but he would never commit. Nice guy, though. We used to attend a Messianic Jewish Bible study where lotsa non-Jews were immersing themselves in Judaism, some even scheduling Bar-Mitzvahs LOLOL How redonkulous, right? The moderator never allowed any other Bible except the Messianic Jew Bible she had on power point.

They used to open each study with a traditional Jewish dance that went round in a circle, mostly the ladies that came. I used to lean over and ask my friend, Hey man, you gonna get in on the "Shalom Shuffle?" He would crack up.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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In the case of infant baptism, it's really about the parents' public acknowledgment of and call on God's promise to convert the baby's heart at the time of His choosing and absolute trust in His ability to bring His good work in the baby to completion at the day of Christ, thereby delivering him/her to glory

There is a question that Jesus asks each and every one of us, "Do you believe in me?"
Infants and young children cannot grasp this concept of who Jesus was, what He did, the gospel message. So we dedicate our children to the Lord, and ask Him to bless our children and guide them with our promise and committment that we will bring them up in a godly way. In prayer we ask that God will strengthen and guide us to be the best parents we can be, (as we, ourselves are fully immersed into a relationship with Christ, having been baptized by the Holy Spirit); so that at the time when our children can grasp the Gospel, understand their sin (which is what Prostestants call "the age of accountability"), then by the grace of God and the gift of faith, our children will say yes to Christ and believe.
As for your condition above, it really depends on the parents as you say ... that certainly helps.
My brother and I were infant baptized in the Catholic Church. It was a tradition and pressure from the family would insist on it. My parents went along with it BUT THEY THEMSELVES WERE NOT BELIEVERS..They did not have faith and did not bring us up with God in our home. They had their own views and many doubts.
MY Dad was an atheist but was infant baptized himself by parents who believed and he had seven sisters who also believed strongly - Italians. A life changing event happened when he was 10 years old. His father was dying of TB and so he got on his knees and prayed to God to save him and God's answer was death. So from that point he did not believe, held a grudge and went through his entire life this way until in his 80's, he finally repented and prayed once again to God.
My Mom's dad also died from TB and her mom got sick so she was put in an orphanage from 9-14 years old and had a few bad experiences with the nuns mistresting her and her sister and wasn't allowed to see her brother. And she was resentful towards them and God. These negative stories we heard year after year.."She slapped my sister in the face" ... "They hit my hands with a ruler ... bla, bla bla." She was rebellious ALL HER LIFE. She delved into astrology, believed in reincarnation, aliens ... basically had her own religious smorgasbord. I chipped away at her false beliefs for 30 years and just about gave up. A few days before she died, at 87 years old, I called her on the phone and was shocked. Something just happenned to her, a change of heart; she was singing songs about Jesus loving her and having his hand on her shoulder, and knowing he was always there ... Go figure.
My brother and I went to catachism, had our communion and confirmation - which was all show. Neither one of us believed probably because our parents did not support it and live by it.
I got saved in a Prostestant Church when I was 35 and my brother is still an atheist at 68 years. He's stubborn and has held chips on his shoulders for a long time.
If infant baptism works... it sure takes a long time to kick in.
 
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Truther

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Maybe you confess faith.
Biblical confession is specific.
Romans 10:9-19
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation
Just as the Ethiopian Eunch did BEFORE he was saved,
Acts 8:37-38

John 3:16 is not the whole gospel of salvation.
Acts 2:38 is not the whole gospel of salvation.

If it is. Then rip out the rest of Jesus' gospel in your Bible.
Shall we rip up Acts 2:38 to satisfy your doctrine?
 

Truther

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Nope. They are still our brothers.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.....

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

That means not treating them like schmucks, but as brothers still because they still are brothers & still saved too but at risk of being excommunicated by the Bridegroom if he still has not repented after being excommunicated by the church, which nowadays, most churches hardly do, but He will.
Why did Paul per Galatians call false teachers "spies, witches and gospel perverts", curse them, and wish they were "cut off"?...


8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.


3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage

12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.
 

Truther

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Yes, I've been saying for years that salvation is conditional: on condition that we repent of sin. The spiritual adolescents among us wrongly interpret that as "works based salvation" because they don't understand the meaning of words.

"Repentance" is a cognitive exercise - a choice we make to surrender our will to God's will, and choice is not works, it's thought. Works are simply the evidence of the choice we've made, according to 1 John 2:3-4 KJV.

Saying this to the OSAS, License to Sin, hyper-grace crowd is like pouring cold water on a sleeping man, and both react in the same manner for the same reason: they are furious at such a shocking revelation, and find their place of warmth and comfort is now anything but.
If I may.

The Acts 2 salvation message was originally known as a Spirit led work allowing the adhering of Acts 2:38.

The "works" that modernists are confusing are the works of the Law as spoken of by Paul.

Acts 2:38 is not OT Law, but grace.

Now, "Christians" are anti work of any kind, but hypocrites because even deciding and confessing is a work.
 

PinSeeker

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You just debunked Peter and over 3000 at Pentecost per Acts 2:38.
Not at all. You just totally misunderstand that passage. Well... not totally, but still...

Nothing to be proud of.... Modernism is a disaster.
I don't think I would call it a "disaster," but it is yet another example of folks who, having itching ears, not enduring teaching of sound doctrine and wandering off into myths. And pride is bad, too... :)

I will stick with the 3000 as my brethren.
Me, too. Grace and peace to you.
 

Truther

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Not at all. You just totally misunderstand that passage. Well... not totally, but still...


I don't think I would call it a "disaster," but it is yet another example of folks who, having itching ears, not enduring teaching of sound doctrine and wandering off into myths. And pride is bad, too... :)


Me, too. Grace and peace to you.
Yes, pride is bad.

That is why I had to leave my old religion(RCC) to obey Acts 2:38.

They forbade me to believe and obey Acts 2:38 as a Catholic.

In my former years of pride, I told folks "I was born a Catholic and will die a Catholic".

Ick!
 

PinSeeker

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Yes, I've been saying for years that salvation is conditional: on condition that we repent of sin.
And this is a direct refutation of what Paul says in Romans 9:16-18 -- "So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy... He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills."

The spiritual adolescents among us wrongly interpret that as "works based salvation" because they don't understand the meaning of words.
I'm not sure I would call them "spiritual adolescents"... Yes, in some cases, what you say is true. But we should all be careful of this. Notice again Romans 9:16-18, quoted above. Paul speaks specifically about both the will and

"Repentance" is a cognitive exercise - a choice we make to surrender our will to God's will, and choice is not works, it's thought. Works are simply the evidence of the choice we've made, according to 1 John 2:3-4 KJV.
Again, Romans 9:16-18 is relevant here. Paul talks of human will (which includes our thoughts and our choices -- intangible things we do) and exertion (outward actions and deeds -- tangible things we do). Tangible or intangible, they are all works of man. As for John in 1 John 2:3-4, he is affirming that our obedience, and even our desire to obey, is a direct and inevitable result of God's having saved us, and that if there is no obedience, then that is outward evidence of our having fooled ourselves into believing that we are saved.

Saying this to the OSAS, License to Sin, hyper-grace crowd is like pouring cold water on a sleeping man, and both react in the same manner for the same reason: they are furious at such a shocking revelation, and find their place of warmth and comfort is now anything but.
Well, these things are surely a great comfort (or should be, anyway) to all of us who are in Christ:

* "God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace we have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace we have been saved through faith." (Ephesians 2)

* "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus... For those whom He foreknew [fore-loved] He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified... For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8)

* "According to His great mercy, He has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for (us), who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5)

* "The gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:29)​

"OSAS," properly understood, is an irrefutable truth of God, a promise of God, and all God's promises have their 'yes' and 'amen' in Christ Jesus. But it is most assuredly not a license to sin by any stretch of the imagination. Paul himself heads off this very misunderstanding (that being saved is somehow a "license to sin," or that we should sin all the more) throughout Romans 6 (emphasis added):

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. For one who has died has been set free from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

What Paul says here is crystal clear.

Grace and peace to all.
 
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PinSeeker

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Yes, pride is bad.
Sure.

That is why I had to leave my old religion(RCC) to obey Acts 2:38.
I mean, there are Catholics, I'm sure, who are truly saved. The "every tongue, tribe, and nation" thing affirms that. :) Just because one has an incorrect understanding of certain things doesn't necessarily make them not Christians. But Catholicism... well, has it's problems, let's just say that. A couple of the main things are that they pray to and for the dead, and they elevate Mary to the status of Jesus, really, even as at least somewhat a co-Redeemer. Those are big problems.

But though there is no absolute need of man to "obey" Acts 2:38, yes, we should all respond in the manner that Peter exhorts us in Acts 2:38, for sure... to make our calling an election sure (2 Peter 1:10), as he later says, exhorting us to show it outwardly and respond to it properly, with great joy, for the benefit of both ourselves and others, and to the glory of God.

They forbade me to believe and obey Acts 2:38 as a Catholic.
I don't think they forbid it, really. I mean, you don't have to answer this, but I'm a little curious as to how you think they "forbade you to believe and obey Acts 2:38." If you were a Catholic, were you not "Christened" as an infant? Catholics do get infant baptism right (at least to an extent), that the promise is for all of us, regardless of age, and that we should have our whole households baptized, regardless of age.

In my former years of pride, I told folks "I was born a Catholic and will die a Catholic". Ick!
HA! :)

Grace and peace to you.
 

Christ4Me

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Why did Paul per Galatians call false teachers "spies, witches and gospel perverts", curse them, and wish they were "cut off"?...

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage

12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you.

Galatians 3:1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Faith alone in Jesus Christ without water baptism is how we are saved otherwise even one step towards saving yourself by water baptism would be seen as trying to finish by the flesh what was begun in the Spirit.
 

Titus

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THE ARK SAVED THEM, NOT THE WATER. It just seems like you have no discernment. You've been misterpretating every scripture you present.
Baptism by the Holy Spirit is essential. You aren't listening to me, so I gave you a teaching from one of the best and you reject it. I'm done.
1Peter 3:20-21
Who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the atk was a preparing, in which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water.
There is also an antitype which now saves us--water immersion.....

It was water that saved Noah as immersion is the antitype that saves us in Jesus' gospel.

Through water.
Through faith, Epheasians 2:8-9,
For by grace you have been saved through faith....

Now your interpretation of 1Peter 3:20-21
....in which a few, that is, eight souls were saved through water.
There is also an antitype which now saves us--(Noah's ark).....

You do not understand type and antitype.
If Noah's ark saved Noah, then Noah's ark is the antitype that saves us today. Not immersion!
 

Titus

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Shall we rip up Acts 2:38 to satisfy your doctrine?
You teach Acts 2:38 is ALL of Jesus' gospel in its entirety.
I believe 100% we must obey Acts 2:38 to be saved.
You teach Acts 2:38 is how we are saved. And nothing else.
Have you noticed Acts 2:38 teaches repentance and baptism.
It does not teach belief! Do you think we can be saved without Faith?
 

Truther

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Sure.


I mean, there are Catholics, I'm sure, who are truly saved. The "every tongue, tribe, and nation" thing affirms that. :) Just because one has an incorrect understanding of certain things doesn't necessarily make them not Christians. But Catholicism... well, has it's problems, let's just say that. A couple of the main things are that they pray to and for the dead, and they elevate Mary to the status of Jesus, really, even as at least somewhat a co-Redeemer. Those are big problems.

But though there is no absolute need of man to "obey" Acts 2:38, yes, we should all respond in the manner that Peter exhorts us in Acts 2:38, for sure... to make our calling an election sure (2 Peter 1:10), as he later says, exhorting us to show it outwardly and respond to it properly, with great joy, for the benefit of both ourselves and others, and to the glory of God.


I don't think they forbid it, really. I mean, you don't have to answer this, but I'm a little curious as to how you think they "forbade you to believe and obey Acts 2:38." If you were a Catholic, were you not "Christened" as an infant? Catholics do get infant baptism right (at least to an extent), that the promise is for all of us, regardless of age, and that we should have our whole households baptized, regardless of age.


HA! :)

Grace and peace to you.
The only way a Catholic can be saved is if they obey Acts 2:38 then walk in the Spirit.
 

Truther

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Faith alone in Jesus Christ without water baptism is how we are saved otherwise even one step towards saving yourself by water baptism would be seen as trying to finish by the flesh what was begun in the Spirit.
Is that what Acts 2:38 tells us or did some modern theology teach you that?

Is that what Jesus taught per Mark 16:16 or did some modern theology teach you that?
 

Truther

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You teach Acts 2:38 is ALL of Jesus' gospel in its entirety.
I believe 100% we must obey Acts 2:38 to be saved.
You teach Acts 2:38 is how we are saved. And nothing else.
Have you noticed Acts 2:38 teaches repentance and baptism.
It does not teach belief! Do you think we can be saved without Faith?
Wait, the 3000 did not believe when they asked Peter "men and brethren, must what we do.."?

Think about what you are implying a minute.....that the 3000 were being smartelics.
 

Bob Carabbio

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I see many Christians attacking the Jewish beliefs for rejecting Christ but the reality is, that Christians that do not obey Acts 2:38

Chuckle!!! "Oneness paradigmatics" (McAlsterites) that we threw out of the Assemblies of God back in 1916, seem not to be aware of ANY Bible passage other than Acts 2:38 and their Legalistic interpretation of it.
 

Titus

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Wait, the 3000 did not believe when they asked Peter "men and brethren, must what we do.."?

Think about what you are implying a minute.....that the 3000 were being smartelics.
I'm not implying what you're implying.
You teach Acts 2:38 is all that must be obeyed.
Did you miss the fact that faith is not mentioned in Acts 2:38.
My point is Acts 2:38 cannot be all that one must obey because it does not mention faith!
Acts 2:37 mentions faith. Therefore Acts 2:37-38 is required to get more of the full picture on how one is saved.
Not one verse alone teaches how we are saved.
 

Truther

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Chuckle!!! "Oneness paradigmatics" (McAlsterites) that we threw out of the Assemblies of God back in 1916, seem not to be aware of ANY Bible passage other than Acts 2:38 and their Legalistic interpretation of it.
Why should we move past Acts 2:38 for "bigger and better things" if Acts 2:38 is the only way for sinners to acquire remission of their sins?
 

Truther

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I'm not implying what you're implying.
You teach Acts 2:38 is all that must be obeyed.
Did you miss the fact that faith is not mentioned in Acts 2:38.
My point is Acts 2:38 cannot be all that one must obey because it does not mention faith!
Acts 2:37 mentions faith. Therefore Acts 2:37-38 is required to get more of the full picture on how one is saved.
Not one verse alone teaches how we are saved.
Not quite.

Okay, you are one of the 3000 at Pentecost.

You feel guilty for Peter saying you crucified Christ.

You stand up and ask Peter for your group, "men and brethren, what must we do to reconcile with our sin"?

Peter tells you to repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and God will graciously give you the Holy Ghost.

Isn't that an easy scenario to accept?

You kill the son of God and all you have to do to get your slate clean is to obey Acts 2:38?

Remission of your sin of killing Jesus is found in being baptized in the name of the man you killed...now that is real faith!

Make sense yet?
 

Bob Carabbio

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Why should we move past Acts 2:38 for "bigger and better things" if Acts 2:38 is the only way for sinners to acquire remission of their sins?

But since it isn't, (McAlister and his false teaching not withstanding) then nothing you (or your denominations) says matters one way or another.

Simple as that. MY BIBLE has more than i verse in it. Sorry about yours.
 
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