Christians and Jews are both anti Acts 2:38.

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Phoneman777

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Why warn believers not to sow the works of the flesh that will reap corruption unless it can happen to a saved believer? Peter said so.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

I can see how a drug addict or an alcoholic can be saved and live their life free from it and then there are those who for a while are free from it, but then persecution or some crisis of faith causes them to all off the wagon.

Once that foundation is laid by Jesus Christ, having His seal of adoption, it can never be removed but what we build on that foundation will be judged.

That is why believers are warned because the wages of sin is death as that church at Thyatira will be cast into the bed of the great tribulation to be judged with physical death in Revelation 2:18-25 and yet though the body is destroyed for that believer defiling the temple of God, his spirit is saved per verse 15 of 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 and with the Lord to await their resurrection as a vessel unto dishonor in His House after the great tribulation;
Biblically speaking, the saint can be lost, but by what means? Sin? Wow, that's heresy! No, not sin.

What causes the saint to be lost is that the saint withdraws his surrendered will from God and re-surrenders it to himself. He ceases from "Not my will, but Thine" and declares "To hell with Your will". Works, whether sin or righteous, are merely the evidence that follows the cognitive choice we make to either continue to "abide in the Vine" or to separate ourselves.

What, Christianity involves personal responsibility? No differently than a marriage where the husband and wife must be committed to keeping their vows of loyalty one to the other if it is to survive.
 

Christ4Me

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LOL, no I didn't mean it literally, but sometimes we can all get to be a bit stubborn, so...

Okay. Glad to hear it that you were not being literal.

Have you seen some of the crazy doctrines that are coming into the church? Bishop Desmond Tutu was buried recently - he was a major voice for global Christianity, but denied the literal, bodily resurrection of Jesus. I'm not sure what he did with Jesus' own testimony that He was "flesh and bones".

Heard about him in passing but nothing about what he had taught. Jesus will judge him for denying His resurrection when it is time.
 

Christ4Me

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Biblically speaking, the saint can be lost, but by what means? Sin? Wow, that's heresy! No, not sin.

What causes the saint to be lost is that the saint withdraws his surrendered will from God and re-surrenders it to himself. He ceases from "Not my will, but Thine" and declares "To hell with Your will". Works, whether sin or righteous, are merely the evidence that follows the cognitive choice we make to either continue to "abide in the Vine" or to separate ourselves.

What, Christianity involves personal responsibility? No differently than a marriage where the husband and wife must be committed to keeping their vows of loyalty one to the other if it is to survive.

We are still in this corruptible flesh for why we are always Spirit-filled since salvation to answer for what we sow towards; the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit which are by Jesus Christ per Philippians 1:11 as He is the One that finishes His work in us to His glory Philippians 1:6

As it is, being in this corruptible flesh and exposed to this fallen world, one can be led astray every day by thought & deed for why we are to look to Him daily in running that race by helping us in laying every weight & sin daily.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.

As much as society would like for me to be an American and cry out "Avengers Assemble!!!" I have to surrender my rights as an American in following Him and suffer grief with His help and He has been and is carrying me as I hope in Him to finish His work in me by carrying me all the way Home.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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You're preaching to the choir. I'm the first to say the Presumptuous Man is going to split hell wide open...because he has no love for Jesus, because if we love Jesus at all, we'll want to stop doing the things that made necessary His death on the Cross in the first place :)
Yeah but your comment implies that the unsaved is waving the flag OSAS:
"the Presumptuous Man who "climbs down a ladder into the pit, sits comfortably among the filth, swats away the uplifiting hand of Jesus, and pushes a OSAS License to Sin in His face." ???
I don't think they understand that doctrine.
Those who understand OSAS, like myself, wave it proudly. I am secure in my faith. If any man is waving that flag, he must believe in Christ.
I don't believe we are in the same page. A firm believer does not practice sin in this arrogant prideful and rebellious way.
 

Christ4Me

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Yeah but your comment implies that the unsaved is waving the flag OSAS:
"the Presumptuous Man who "climbs down a ladder into the pit, sits comfortably among the filth, swats away the uplifiting hand of Jesus, and pushes a OSAS License to Sin in His face." ???
I don't think they understand that doctrine.
Those who understand OSAS, like myself, wave it proudly. I am secure in my faith. If any man is waving that flag, he must believe in Christ.
I don't believe we are in the same page. A firm believer does not practice sin in this arrogant prideful and rebellious way.

2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

This is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready as found abiding in Him & His words or else. John 15:1-8 & Luke 12:40-49 & 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & Revelation 2:18-25
 

Titus

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To believe in Jesus “unto salvation” is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) If you trust in Jesus Christ PLUS SOMETHING ELSE (water baptism, sabbath keeping, law keeping, works in general) for salvation AND NOT IN CHRIST ALONE then you are not a believer).

Those who have faith believe in His word. Jesus taught that whoever does not believe will be condemned (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18) and not whoever is not baptized will be condemned as I already explained in post #714. I have faith in Jesus’ word. I just don’t have faith in your “misinterpretation” of Jesus’ word that results in “salvation by works.”

I believe on the name of the Son of God and I know that I have eternal life. (1 John 5:13 - Praise God!) so I already obeyed the commandment to believe. Nobody except Jesus Christ has flawlessly obeyed ALL of God’s commandments, so that is not the way to salvation. (Romans 3:23; 6:23)

Danthemailman, is it your practise to avoid, ignore elephants? Pretend their not there? Because you taught me a while back that NO OBEDIENCE is required to be saved in Jesus' gospel. Yet you then contradicted yourself and said there was when I pointed out to you, 1John 3:23-24
And this is His COMMANDMENT that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. Commandment keeping is a part of salvation. To deny this Biblical fact is to deny the word of God, 1John 3:23-24.

In Jesus' gospel unto salvation. Jesus never required all commandments to be obeyed to receive salvation.
Some commandments are for the saved Christian only. Jesus' apostles teaching in the book of Acts,
Where all the conversion examples occur. Never commanded a lost person to give of their means on the first day of the week to be saved,
1Corinthians 16:2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

This commandment is only for after one is a saved christian.
Jesus's gospel does Have commandments that are requirements in His gospel unto salvation.
You can learn them by studying the book of Acts.
They are:
Faith, Acts 16:31 ; 1John 3:23-24
Repentance , Acts 3:19 ; Acts 17:30
Confession, Acts 8: 37 ; Romans 10:9-10 ; Matthew 10:32-33 ; 1John 4:2-3 ; 4:15
Water immersion, Acts 2:38 ; Acts 10:47-48 ; Acts 16:33 ; Mark 16:15-16

These are the gospels essential requirements ordained of God to be saved.

After salvation a new born christian is then given more commandments that must be obeyed,
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are those who DO His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may enter through the gates into the city.

True saving faith is trust in Jesus that you will do these things because you believe what
Jesus says will save you.
If you do not have saving faith, you will refuse to obey Jesus' gospel.

Latter part of Mark 16:16,
....he that believeth not shall be damned.
Why not mention baptism? Obviously no one who believes will be baptized! It is redundant to say believeth not and baptizeth not will be danmed.
John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Water baptizing a non believer only gets one wet.
 

Christ4Me

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Danthemailman, is it your practise to avoid, ignore elephants? Pretend their not there? Because you taught me a while back that NO OBEDIENCE is required to be saved in Jesus' gospel. Yet you then contradicted yourself and said there was when I pointed out to you, 1John 3:23-24

That is about how we & others can know when we are abiding/dwelling in Him as His disciples.

It's not proof that we are saved when we are saved for having believed in Him.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

And this is His COMMANDMENT that we should BELIEVE on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. Commandment keeping is a part of salvation. To deny this Biblical fact is to deny the word of God, 1John 3:23-24.

Think about that for a moment. We need Him in us so we can love others, even our enemies. If we had to obtain our salvation by something we are to do, like loving others, then that salvation in being born again of the Spirit by believing in Him cannot come because it is ongoing.

Discipleship as in running that race is not about obtaining salvation but to gain the high prize of our calling to be that vessel unto honor in His House. If we run that race thinking by loving others I am saving myself, then we deny the Lord that has bought us because we are saved since having believed in Him. We love Him because He first loved us. If we or anyone has a problem loving a brother or a sinner, to not forgive them for they know not what they do, they can always go before that throne of grace for help since love is a fruit of the Spirit that Jesus supplies.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

In Jesus' gospel unto salvation. Jesus never required all commandments to be obeyed to receive salvation.

Only believing in Him is required for salvation whereas continuing to believe in Him & loving others is for abiding in Him as His disciple as the consequence is for not abiding in Him is to be cut off, left behind when that fire comes on the earth and the coming great tribulation as a result.

John 15:1-8 & Luke 12:40-49 & Luke 13:24-30 & 2 Peter 3:3-18 But still saved note verse 15 in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & Revelation 2:18-25
 

Titus

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That is about how we & others can know when we are abiding/dwelling in Him as His disciples.

It's not proof that we are saved when we are saved for having believed in Him.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.



Think about that for a moment. We need Him in us so we can love others, even our enemies. If we had to obtain our salvation by something we are to do, like loving others, then that salvation in being born again of the Spirit by believing in Him cannot come because it is ongoing.

Discipleship as in running that race is not about obtaining salvation but to gain the high prize of our calling to be that vessel unto honor in His House. If we run that race thinking by loving others I am saving myself, then we deny the Lord that has bought us because we are saved since having believed in Him. We love Him because He first loved us. If we or anyone has a problem loving a brother or a sinner, to not forgive them for they know not what they do, they can always go before that throne of grace for help since love is a fruit of the Spirit that Jesus supplies.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.



Only believing in Him is required for salvation whereas continuing to believe in Him & loving others is for abiding in Him as His disciple as the consequence is for not abiding in Him is to be cut off, left behind when that fire comes on the earth and the coming great tribulation as a result.

John 15:1-8 & Luke 12:40-49 & Luke 13:24-30 & 2 Peter 3:3-18 But still saved note verse 15 in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 & Revelation 2:18-25

James 2:24
Ye see then that a man is JUSTIFIED BY WORKS(obedience) and not by faith only.
Faith alone is a dead faith.
You believe you can be saved by a dead faith?
Faith alone is as dead as a corpse without a soul.
James 2 26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Hebrews 5:8-9
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

Nothing we have to do(obey)?

Paul was not saved without being told what to do. Paul had to do something.
Acts 9:6-7
So he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what do You want me to DO? Then the Lord said to him.
Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must DO.
Jesus told Saul/Paul, he had to Do something. You say Paul did not.
Who should I believe? You or Jesus?
Paul in three days is going to get the Holy Spirit.
He is already a believer, but he is not saved nor does he have Holy Spirit baptism yet.
Acts 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and nethier ate nor drank.
Jesus commands Ananias to preach the gospel to Paul.
Ananias goes to Paul, and guess what he tells him?
He tells Paul, to be water baptized just as Jesus commands in His gospel, Mark 16:15-16.
Acts 9:17-18
...Brother Saul(Jews call themselves brothers) the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Three days later after Paul was a believer in Jesus he gets Holy Spirit baptized!!! Wow
That does not fit your gospel of salvation the moment you believe and Holy Spirit baptism instantaneously at all!
Sounds like your gospel is not found in the actual conversions that take place in the new testament during the time Christ's gospel was in effect. But it does sound like Mark 16:15-16. Hmmm?
Acts 9:18
Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once, and he arose and was baptized.
Paul was not saved by faith alone.
It is obvious he did not know your gospel!
Paul said his sins were washed away not when he believed but when he was water immersed.
Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the lord.
Explain how three days after Paul comes to faith in Christ he still had his sins until he was baptized?
Sounds like Jesus meant what He said and says what He means, Mark 16:15-16.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

I submit to you that these are NOT born again Christians! The seed was not scattered on fertile soil, nor did it take deep root. The seeds of these folks were scattered on rocky or shallow soil. They did hear and receive some knowledge of the LORD, maybe went to church for years, and temporarily went through the motions and even experienced some blessings but the roots did not grow deep because they did not nourish the seeds nor was their soil fertile. They did not really believe or maybe had a half-hearted belief. They were not transformed by the Holy Spirit ... or do you think GOD makes mistakes, transforms them into a new creatures knowing they will fall away after awhile? He is the AUTHOR of our faith and that is a guarantee. We are sealed. OSAS!
 

Titus

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I submit to you that these are NOT born again Christians! The seed was not scattered on fertile soil, nor did it take deep root. The seeds of these folks were scattered on rocky or shallow soil. They did hear and receive some knowledge of the LORD, maybe went to church for years, and temporarily went through the motions and even experienced some blessings but the roots did not grow deep because they did not nourish the seeds nor was their soil fertile. They did not really believe or maybe had a half-hearted belief. They were not transformed by the Holy Spirit ... or do you think GOD makes mistakes, transforms them into a new creatures knowing they will fall away after awhile? He is the AUTHOR of our faith and that is a guarantee. We are sealed. OSAS!

How can one be entangled AGAIN in the sins of the world if they have never left the world?
This is clearly saved Christians that escaped the world and have back slided into apostasy.
 

Christ4Me

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James 2:24
Ye see then that a man is JUSTIFIED BY WORKS(obedience) and not by faith only.
Faith alone is a dead faith.
You believe you can be saved by a dead faith?
Faith alone is as dead as a corpse without a soul.
James 2 26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

James was rebuking a church that was disrespecting the poor from the beginning of James 2nd chapter. One of the other abuse to the poor was getting out of helping the poor after church service by giving them a blessing sharing the church's faith in His Providence that God will provide for them without leading by example.

It is because the church was mistreating the poor in that way without leading by example of having faith in God to provide by meeting their immediate needs to the poor that was starving and perishing from the elements from the bounty collected at church service is why the church's faith in His God's providence was dead in the eyes of the poor and cannot "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor.

That faith in God's providence was not on the church as if they are not saved for doing that, but on the poor as the church's faith ( actally the lack thereof for not leading by example ) will not profit the poor nor save the poor. <---- @robert derrick

Hebrews 5:8-9
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

Nothing we have to do(obey)?

Paul was not saved without being told what to do. Paul had to do something.
Acts 9:6-7
So he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what do You want me to DO? Then the Lord said to him.
Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must DO.
Jesus told Saul/Paul, he had to Do something. You say Paul did not.
Who should I believe? You or Jesus?
Paul in three days is going to get the Holy Spirit.
He is already a believer, but he is not saved nor does he have Holy Spirit baptism yet.
Acts 9:9 And he was three days without sight, and nethier ate nor drank.
Jesus commands Ananias to preach the gospel to Paul.
Ananias goes to Paul, and guess what he tells him?
He tells Paul, to be water baptized just as Jesus commands in His gospel, Mark 16:15-16.
Acts 9:17-18
...Brother Saul(Jews call themselves brothers) the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.
Three days later after Paul was a believer in Jesus he gets Holy Spirit baptized!!! Wow
That does not fit your gospel of salvation the moment you believe and Holy Spirit baptism instantaneously at all!
Sounds like your gospel is not found in the actual conversions that take place in the new testament during the time Christ's gospel was in effect. But it does sound like Mark 16:15-16. Hmmm?
Acts 9:18
Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once, and he arose and was baptized.
Paul was not saved by faith alone.
It is obvious he did not know your gospel!
Paul said his sins were washed away not when he believed but when he was water immersed.
Acts 22:16
And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the lord.
Explain how three days after Paul comes to faith in Christ he still had his sins until he was baptized?
Sounds like Jesus meant what He said and says what He means, Mark 16:15-16.

To obey the gospel is by believing in Him and we get born again of the Spirit hence that is the baptism with the holy Ghost that is referred to in Mark 16:16. Since those who do not believe are condemned already, we see the same message in John 3:18 without referring to baptism because this is about being born again of the Spirit which was to take place after His ascension which is after His crucifixion by believing in Him John 3:7-18.
 

Titus

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James was rebuking a church that was disrespecting the poor from the beginning of James 2nd chapter. One of the other abuse to the poor was getting out of helping the poor after church service by giving them a blessing sharing the church's faith in His Providence that God will provide for them without leading by example.

It is because the church was mistreating the poor in that way without leading by example of having faith in God to provide by meeting their immediate needs to the poor that was starving and perishing from the elements from the bounty collected at church service is why the church's faith in His God's providence was dead in the eyes of the poor and cannot "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor.

That faith in God's providence was not on the church as if they are not saved for doing that, but on the poor as the church's faith ( actally the lack thereof for not leading by example ) will not profit the poor nor save the poor. <---- @robert derrick



To obey the gospel is by believing in Him and we get born again of the Spirit hence that is the baptism with the holy Ghost that is referred to in Mark 16:16. Since those who do not believe are condemned already, we see the same message in John 3:18 without referring to baptism because this is about being born again of the Spirit which was to take place after His ascension which is after His crucifixion by believing in Him John 3:7-18.
James is teaching in chapter 2 if faith alone or faith and works save!
James 2:14
What does it profit brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith(without works) save him?

Mark 16:15-16 is water baptism not Holy Spirit.
Holy Spirit baptism was promised, Luke 24:49,
Behold I send the PROMISE of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.

Never anywhere in the Bible is Holy Spirit baptism commanded.

Holy Spirit baptism is done to man directly by God, no other men baptize men with Hily Spirit baptism,
Acts 2:1-3
When the Day of Penetcost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
And suddenly there came a sound of aa a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. Then there appeared before them divided tongues as of fire and one sat upon each of them.

In Matthew 28:19 Jesus commands His disciples to do the baptizing. They(men) were commanded to baptize other men. That is only done with water baptism,
Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:19 is the great commission just as Mark 16:15-16 is the same commission of Jesus.

We see water baptism commanded, Acts 10:48,
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

Only water baptism is commanded and in the name of the Lord.
Holy Spirit baptism was never commanded.

Water baptism in the name of the Lord, Acts 2:38.

Conclusion,
Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:15-16 must be water not Holy Spirit baptism.
Fact: the Greek word in Mark 16:16 is baptizo.
This word is only used for water baptism. Never used for Holy Spirit baptism.
 
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Christ4Me

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I submit to you that these are NOT born again Christians! The seed was not scattered on fertile soil, nor did it take deep root. The seeds of these folks were scattered on rocky or shallow soil. They did hear and receive some knowledge of the LORD, maybe went to church for years, and temporarily went through the motions and even experienced some blessings but the roots did not grow deep because they did not nourish the seeds nor was their soil fertile. They did not really believe or maybe had a half-hearted belief. They were not transformed by the Holy Spirit ... or do you think GOD makes mistakes, transforms them into a new creatures knowing they will fall away after awhile? He is the AUTHOR of our faith and that is a guarantee. We are sealed. OSAS!

@Titus

There were four examples given in the parable of the Sower. Only 3 received the seed; hence Christ. Only one had the seed taken away by Satan because of unbelief for why they did not receive that seed to be saved.

The two that did not bear fruit is about not abiding in Him and His words as His disciples to bear fruit while going through the tribulations in this world.

God has 2 kinds of vessels in His House; vessels of gold and silver, the vessels unto honor, and the vessels of wood & earth., the vessels unto dishonor. Since the ones that depart from iniquity are the vessels unto honor, what does that tell you about the vessels unto dishonor but that they did not depart from iniquity and yet they are in that same great house.

Look at the example given by Paul about a former believer and yet even they too, are still called to depart from iniquity so they can be received by Him as that vessel unto honor and not be denied by Him & left behind in becoming that vessel unto dishonor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Like it or not, as vessels of wood & earth, they testify to the power of God in salvation for all those who believe in Him, even in His name. That is why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth.

See this faithful saying about how He will deny those who deny him, but even if we believe not any more, He is faithful for He still abides. That is why we are to endure for the elect sake so carnal and former believers can depart from iniquity and obtain that eternal glory that comes with our salvation and that is to be that vessel unto honor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

I tell you, if He finally help you to see this truth, give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name for I was weary about coming on here tonight again. truly, He leadeth me.

Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

But He could cause the increase some other time. I can hope.
 

Titus

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There were four examples given in the parable of the Sower. Only 3 received the seed; hence Christ. Only one had the seed taken away by Satan because of unbelief for why they did not receive that seed to be saved.

The two that did not bear fruit is about not abiding in Him and His words as His disciples to bear fruit while going through the tribulations in this world.

God has 2 kinds of vessels in His House; vessels of gold and silver, the vessels unto honor, and the vessels of wood & earth., the vessels unto dishonor. Since the ones that depart from iniquity are the vessels unto honor, what does that tell you about the vessels unto dishonor but that they did not depart from iniquity and yet they are in that same great house.

Look at the example given by Paul about a former believer and yet even they too, are still called to depart from iniquity so they can be received by Him as that vessel unto honor and not be denied by Him & left behind in becoming that vessel unto dishonor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Like it or not, as vessels of wood & earth, they testify to the power of God in salvation for all those who believe in Him, even in His name. That is why there are vessels unto dishonor in His House, vessels of wood & earth.

See this faithful saying about how He will deny those who deny him, but even if we believe not any more, He is faithful for He still abides. That is why we are to endure for the elect sake so carnal and former believers can depart from iniquity and obtain that eternal glory that comes with our salvation and that is to be that vessel unto honor in His House.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

I tell you, if He finally help you to see this truth, give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name for I was weary about coming on here tonight again. truly, He leadeth me.

Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

But He could cause the increase some other time. I can hope.

Believers in Jesus, Jews had faith in Jesus but still were lost,
John 12:42-43
Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
They had faith alone with no love for Jesus. Faith alone cannot save,
Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Faith without confession will save no one.
Faith alone is dead, James 2:24.
Faith with obedience to Jesus' commandments, Romans 10:9-10 saves,
 

Christ4Me

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James is teaching in chapter 2 if faith alone or faith and works save!
James 2:14
What does it profit brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith(without works) save him?

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Once again this is about a church voicing faith in God's Providence to the poor to get out of helping the poor. That is what is meant by what does it profit the poor when the church refuse to lead by example by meeting their immediate needs.

It is not about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation but how that church's verbalizing their faith in God's Providence to the poor that will not profit the poor nor save the poor from the elements and starvation. In the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in God's providence is dead.

James referred to Abraham and Isaac as to what kind of faith he waa stalking about that requires works as leading by example.

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

The name of the place is the moral lesson from real life about having Abraham's faith in Gd to provide for him to spare him from offering his son.

Mark 16:15-16 is water baptism not Holy Spirit.
Holy Spirit baptism was promised, Luke 24:49,
Behold I send the PROMISE of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.

Never anywhere in the Bible is Holy Spirit baptism commanded.

And yet you just referred to the promise from the Father for when any one believes in Him. You do not see it as an automatic thing wen someone believes and thus is baptized and in contrast, it is only those who do not believe that are not saved.

Look at John 3:18 for how those who believe are saved without mentioning water baptism and those who do not believe were condemned already. The reason the baptism with the Holy Ghost is not mentioned here is because Jesus was answering Nicodemus question as to when and how one is born again of the Spirit which was to be after His ascension which is after His crucifixion for whenever any one that believes in him gets eternal life.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

So you are only assuming the baptism in Mark 16:16 is water baptism when it is really the baptism with the Holy Ghost as in born again.

Holy Spirit baptism is done to man directly by God, no other men baptize men with Holy Spirit baptism,
Acts 2:1-3

Right and the act that the Gentiles had received the remission of sins by believing in Jesus Christ and thus had received the baptism with the holy Ghost way before water baptism proves it is not necessary for salvation.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

In Matthew 28:19 Jesus commands His disciples to do the baptizing. They(men) were commanded to baptize other men. That is only done with water baptism,
Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 28:19 is the great commission just as Mark 16:15-16 is the same commission of Jesus.

Thank you for sharing that but not all cross references mean the same thing as one can preach the gospel and those who hear can believe and be saved as born again without water baptism.

Paul himself deferred from water baptism as he emphasized the preaching of the cross and those believing in Him are saved as that is the power of God in salvation to save those that believe.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God..... 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Paul again emphasize how faith comes by hearing the gospel as believing in Him is how we are saved.

Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Jesus is the Savior for why having believed in Him is how God is pleased in having saved us.

Water baptism is for new believers in taking the first step in identifying as His disciples publicly. It is an ordinance as well as a commandment for new believers to follow as His disciple. His disciples are to teach them everything He has taught them after water baptizing them in His name per Matthew 28:18-20. May God cause the increase.
 

Christ4Me

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Believers in Jesus, Jews had faith in Jesus but still were lost,
John 12:42-43
Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
They had faith alone with no love for Jesus. Faith alone cannot save,
Romans 10:9-10
That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Faith without confession will save no one.
Faith alone is dead, James 2:24.
Faith with obedience to Jesus' commandments, Romans 10:9-10 saves,

Taking off for tonight, brother.

I ask you to go before that throne of grace and ask Jesus if His hand is short in saving any one that calls on His name to be saved.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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How can one be entangled AGAIN in the sins of the world if they have never left the world?
This is clearly saved Christians that escaped the world and have back slided into apostasy.
Can a drug addict, or an alcoholic, or a criminal stop for awhile and then go back to the gutter. People do this all the time when life gets stressful, they lose a job or their wife and give up and fall further than before because they do not have the Lord. This is not someone who has faith in God.
 

Titus

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Taking off for tonight, brother.

I ask you to go before that throne of grace and ask Jesus if His hand is short in saving any one that calls on His name to be saved.
Jesus taught and commanded more than just faith to be saved. He commanded faith and obedience to His gospel. Romans 10:9-10 is belief and confession. Not faith only. The confession is an act of obedience. You are obeying a direct command. Therefore confession is a work of faith.
Acts 8:37.
 

Titus

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Can a drug addict, or an alcoholic, or a criminal stop for awhile and then go back to the gutter. People do this all the time when life gets stressful, they lose a job or their wife and give up and fall further than before because they do not have the Lord. This is not someone who has faith in God.
Yes christians can lose their faith and be lost.
Hebrews 3:12
Beware brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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There were four examples given in the parable of the Sower. Only 3 received the seed; hence Christ
Sorry, I was taught and believe that the only true Christian in the Parable of the Sower is the one with fertile soil, the rest are not.

The two that did not bear fruit is about not abiding in Him and His words as His disciples to bear fruit while going through the tribulations in this world.
That is right. "Abide in" means "im Christ", spiritually born again.

. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour,
This passage is giving an example of both believers and non-believers. The analogy of a great house is nit the kingdom of heaven but the world. Otherwise you would be claiming that dishonorable/ sinful people are in the kingdom of heaven.
Also includes both wheat and tares.