Charles Spurgeon's Sanity Litmus Test (are you insane?)

[Richard_oti]

Who sinned, Adam or Eve?

Good question. Who was the first to partake? Adam or Eve?

 

[GodsGrace]

Faith is not learned.
If you have to 'learn' what it is that you believe..then you don't know what 'you' believe.. until someone else tells you!! That is not faith.

Romans 12:3 " For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

You're replying to my saying that I still study my faith.
You tell me faith is not learned.

So...
Are YOU of the Christian faith?
The Jewish faith?
The Islamic faith?

Do YOU study your faith?

 

[GodsGrace]

Good question. Who was the first to partake? Adam or Eve?

You seem pretty darn intelligene RO

What kind of a question is that???

With whom was the Adamic Covenant made...
With Adam or with Eve?

Thus, who is responsible?

 

[GodsGrace]

I have trouble with it too, but for a few verses.

Not yet. I've read other books by Scott Hahn. A superb teacher.

Romans 5 explains O.S.

That's correct. O.S. is contracted, not committed by a conscious choice. Therefore it can be removed without a conscious choice.

Kepha
Could you please clarify the difference between OS and concupisence?
I mean, I understand what the difference is, but your post above leads me to believe you're understanding is different.

I do like your last sentence. OS is contracted therefore it could be removed without consent. Infant baptism. OK.

But in IB it is OS that is being removed. OS refers to the first sin commited which cannot be imputed.

It's the EFFECTS of original sin that have been passed on to all man.
And the EFFECT of OS remains, even after baptism...

 

[Stranger]

I can't read Revelation. Don't know why. Maybe it's not concrete enough for my personality.

Anyway, did you ever read The Supper of the Lamb by Scott Hahn?
It's based on Revelation and how it resembles the Mass.
It's great.

Regarding O.S...
If we're born with original sin, that means God imputes to us the sin of another. Jesus said this was wrong.
John 9:2-3

We are effected by Adam's sin, but we are not held responsible for it.
We are all born with concupiscence or the sin nature. It's this sin nature that make us be lost at our birth.

Is O.S. Adam's disobedience of God -- the first sin,
or the sin nature?

I understand O.S. to be the first sin, the disobedience of Adam toward God.

You can and should read the book of Revelation. If you have some sort of mental block concerning it, it is not from God. (Rev. 1:3) You don't have to understand it all, but you should read it all. Just like with the whole Bible. Blessing is to those who read it, hear it, and keep it.

(John 9:2-3) does not disprove the doctrine of original sin, or the imputation of Adams sin to the human race. It simply says that this man was not born blind due to his parents sin.

Your statement, "We are affected by Adam's sin, but we are not held responsible for it.", is strange. We become guilty of Adams sin, else why should any die? (Rom. 5:14) Why should we be born lost? Adam's one act was imputed to the whole human race, which is why we are lost, which is why we are born sinners.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

You can and should read the book of Revelation. If you have some sort of mental block concerning it, it is not from God. (Rev. 1:3) You don't have to understand it all, but you should read it all. Just like with the whole Bible. Blessing is to those who read it, hear it, and keep it.

(John 9:2-3) does not disprove the doctrine of original sin, or the imputation of Adams sin to the human race. It simply says that this man was not born blind due to his parents sin.

Your statement, "We are affected by Adam's sin, but we are not held responsible for it.", is strange. We become guilty of Adams sin, else why should any die? (Rom. 5:14) Why should we be born lost? Adam's one act was imputed to the whole human race, which is why we are lost, which is why we are born sinners.

Stranger

Death is an effect of the sin.

This is what Arminians believe, of which I am one:

Arminianism
Generally speaking, the Arminians maintain that we inherited a sin nature from Adam and sin due to that nature. We are not guilty for Adam's sin and cannot be punished unless we actually sin.

Whichever view or combination of these views you hold, we suffer for Adam’s sin by effect as well as nature. We are sinners and live in a sinful world. We are suffering the consequences of Adam’s sin. We have our own sin with which to contend because we are by nature, children of wrath (Eph. 2:3). We are sinners.

 

[Stranger]

Death is an effect of the sin.

This is what Arminians believe, of which I am one:

Arminianism
Generally speaking, the Arminians maintain that we inherited a sin nature from Adam and sin due to that nature. We are not guilty for Adam's sin and cannot be punished unless we actually sin.

Whichever view or combination of these views you hold, we suffer for Adam’s sin by effect as well as nature. We are sinners and live in a sinful world. We are suffering the consequences of Adam’s sin. We have our own sin with which to contend because we are by nature, children of wrath (Eph. 2:3). We are sinners.

As I said, this is strange to me. You said earlier that we are born lost. You say now we suffer for Adam's sin, but we cannot be punished for Adam's sin. If we are born lost, and if we suffer for Adam's sin, die, (Rom. 5:14) how is that not Adam's guilt imputed to the human race? Yall, Arminians, are saying you don't believe in the doctrine of original sin, yet you define the doctrine in what you believe.

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

As I said, this is strange to me. You said earlier that we are born lost. You say now we suffer for Adam's sin, but we cannot be punished for Adam's sin. If we are born lost, and if we suffer for Adam's sin, die, (Rom. 5:14) how is that not Adam's guilt imputed to the human race? Yall, Arminians, are saying you don't believe in the doctrine of original sin, yet you define the doctrine in what you believe.

Stranger

Original sin is the sin that Adam committed.
He committed the first sin of any man.
Because he represented all mankind, we now, all of us, suffer the consequences of that sin.

The consequences are physical death,
separation from God,
separation from our fellow man
separation from nature and , in many different ways,
separation from ourselves.

Because of this original sin, all the consequences of it have been passed down to us. This is called the sin nature.

Because of this sin nature every man is born lost.
We must REPAIR the damage done by Adam's first sin.
We will still have the sin nature till we die and receive our glorified bodies, but the sin nature will be kept under submission (to a point) with the help of the Holy Spirit. We are still fleshly beings and will sin; however, we are no longer slaves to sin --- Jesus took care of that on the cross.

If you want to call this being imputed with Adam's sin, so be it.
I don't think, however, that God - being a just God - would blame ME for something YOU did. Of course, Adam was not you and it's not really the same, but that's how I understand sin.

What is your position?
You believe we're responsible for Adam's sin?
I mean, personally?

 

[amadeus]

So....
Those who study with MEN
do not have the Holy Ghost?

Did I say that? Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they do. Coming together in his name is always a good thing. When the in his name part is missing, then Jesus is missing and we are not likely to move toward Him.

Who are we supposed to study with?
God in the flesh?

When we study alone or with others we need to pray also sincerely from the heart along with and in the midst of that study. Each morning when I do my daily reading, at the start of each chapter I open my heart and my mouth to God. When I switch to another Bible, I pray a sincere prayer before beginning the new one. During my day whether I am on the Internet as I am right now or working on my stamps of doing other things, I try to remember to pray as I move along. I do not always remember and sometimes I get distracted, but I keep on trying and asking God for help.

Have you ever heard of bible college?
Maybe we should just close them all down?

Yes, I have, but I've never been to one and cannot therefore speak fairly either for or against them as a whole. I am certain that some are good if they succeed to bring people closer to God. The problem I might have with them is the same I might have with church groups if they were to teach division rather than unity and if they were teach quenching the Spirit of God rather than encouraging it. [/QUOTE]

 

[GodsGrace]

Did I say that? Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they do. Coming together in his name is always a good thing. When the in his name part is missing, then Jesus is missing and we are not likely to move toward Him.


When we study alone or with others we need to pray also sincerely from the heart along with and in the midst of that study. Each morning when I do my daily reading, at the start of each chapter I open my heart and my mouth to God. When I switch to another Bible, I pray a sincere prayer before beginning the new one. During my day whether I am on the Internet as I am right now or working on my stamps of doing other things, I try to remember to pray as I move along. I do not always remember and sometimes I get distracted, but I keep on trying and asking God for help.


Yes, I have, but I've never been to one and cannot therefore speak fairly either for or against them as a whole. I am certain that some are good if they succeed to bring people closer to God. The problem I might have with them is the same I might have with church groups if they were to teach division rather than unity and if they were teach quenching the Spirit of God rather than encouraging it.

[/QUOTE]
Well I'll say this:
We bring our life experience along with us.
I know two persons (maybe 3 or 4)
who have studied a lot. So much that they have initials after their name. They are also very Godly men and spiritual men.
They probably do a whole lot more for God than I ever will.

So I'm not turned off by learned persons. I seek them to learn more.
I don't intend to learn very much here or from the internet.
The reason I came here was to share and speak about God, instead I find that we just like to debate this and that. Which I guess is ok too.
I'm not too sure Jesus would be happy because He wanted ONE FOLD.
But the world is full of sin and we drag it with us wherever we go.

 

[Stranger]

Original sin is the sin that Adam committed.
He committed the first sin of any man.
Because he represented all mankind, we now, all of us, suffer the consequences of that sin.

The consequences are physical death,
separation from God,
separation from our fellow man
separation from nature and , in many different ways,
separation from ourselves.

Because of this original sin, all the consequences of it have been passed down to us. This is called the sin nature.

Because of this sin nature every man is born lost.
We must REPAIR the damage done by Adam's first sin.
We will still have the sin nature till we die and receive our glorified bodies, but the sin nature will be kept under submission (to a point) with the help of the Holy Spirit. We are still fleshly beings and will sin; however, we are no longer slaves to sin --- Jesus took care of that on the cross.

If you want to call this being imputed with Adam's sin, so be it.
I don't think, however, that God - being a just God - would blame ME for something YOU did. Of course, Adam was not you and it's not really the same, but that's how I understand sin.

What is your position?
You believe we're responsible for Adam's sin?
I mean, personally?

Yes, we become personally responsible for Adam's sin. This is what (Rom. 5:13-14) is saying. From Adam to Moses there was no law that the people were under which caused God to not account their sins to them. But they still died. Why? Because of Adams sin. Because they were guilty as Adam was guilty.

Stranger

 

[amadeus]

Well I'll say this:
We bring our life experience along with us.
I know two persons (maybe 3 or 4)
who have studied a lot. So much that they have initials after their name. They are also very Godly men and spiritual men.
They probably do a whole lot more for God than I ever will.

Nothing wrong with the initials after your name if they do not stand between you and God. Knowledge can be a good thing, but without the Spirit, it may be the very worst of things.

So I'm not turned off by learned persons. I seek them to learn more.

My personal experience on this teaches me to be very careful. There are very learned men in probably every denomination we can easily name among the those that are held out to be Christian. Why is it that they do not all belong to the same group? I won't answer that. Just think and pray about it.

I don't intend to learn very much here or from the internet.

"Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." Matt 11:29
Where is Jesus?

The reason I came here was to share and speak about God, instead I find that we just like to debate this and that. Which I guess is ok too.
I'm not too sure Jesus would be happy because He wanted ONE FOLD.
But the world is full of sin and we drag it with us wherever we go.

Would you really be surprised if any place of man were so much different? God is building a house. It has Jesus as its foundation and anyone who is to a part of the house will be what God requires.

Where and how are we building our house? Are we paying attention to God on this or to man with his brains and his skills, etc...?

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Matt 7:24-27

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, we become personally responsible for Adam's sin. This is what (Rom. 5:13-14) is saying. From Adam to Moses there was no law that the people were under which caused God to not account their sins to them. But they still died. Why? Because of Adams sin. Because they were guilty as Adam was guilty.

Stranger

You state a legitimate belief within traditional Christianity.
Nothing to debate.

There are two ways of understanding this, which is agreed upon by theology. You're entitled to your opinion...

 

[GodsGrace]

Nothing wrong with the initials after your name if they do not stand between you and God. Knowledge can be a good thing, but without the Spirit, it may be the very worst of things.


My personal experience on this teaches me to be very careful. There are very learned men in probably every denomination we can easily name among the those that are held out to be Christian. Why is it that they do not all belong to the same group? I won't answer that. Just think and pray about it.



"Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." Matt 11:29
Where is Jesus?



Would you really be surprised if any place of man were so much different? God is building a house. It has Jesus as its foundation and anyone who is to a part of the house will be what God requires.

Where and how are we building our house? Are we paying attention to God on this or to man with his brains and his skills, etc...?

"Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." Matt 7:24-27

Do you think I'm as old as that avatar?
I am what I am.
I believe what I believe.
I know what I know.
My house is built.
I'm very careful.
I know of Him.
I do the things, and am scolded for it.
etc.

 

[amadeus]

Do you think I'm as old as that avatar?

Probably not! But, hopefully you are coming to God in the manner of such a child.

I am what I am.

But... is God finished with you yet?

I believe what I believe.

All of us do, but have you never changed your mind? Has God never changed your mind? Would you say that He will never change you again?

I know what I know.

Who does not? How much of what we know is on the highway of holiness only?

My house is built.

Already built? So then are you ready with Jesus to say as He did on the cross: "It is finished"?

Or with Paul?
"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:" II Tim 4:7

I'm very careful.

May God always be with you as you walk in care!

I know of Him.

It is really is better to know Him than to simply know OF Him, is it not?

I do the things, and am scolded for it.
etc.

When He scolds you, be sure to pay attention to what He says.

 

[GodsGrace]

Probably not! But, hopefully you are coming to God in the manner of such a child.


But... is God finished with you yet?


All of us do, but have you never changed your mind? Has God never changed your mind? Would you say that He will never change you again?


Who does not? How much of what we know is on the highway of holiness only?

Already built? So then are you ready with Jesus to say as He did on the cross: "It is finished"?

Or with Paul?
"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:" II Tim 4:7

May God always be with you as you walk in care!

It is really is better to know Him than to simply know OF Him, is it not?


When He scolds you, be sure to pay attention to what He says.

Yes Amadeus.
He's pretty done with me.

 

[amadeus]

Yes Amadeus.
He's pretty done with me.

That came across to me as having a sad note in it. Am I mistaken?
Hey, I go on sometimes too long and too hard. I have you in my prayers for God to have His Way in you and brighten today for you.

 

[GodsGrace]

That came across to me as having a sad note in it. Am I mistaken?
Hey, I go on sometimes too long and too hard. I have you in my prayers for God to have His Way in you and brighten today for you.

No. I didn't mean it in a sad way.
I've known Jesus over 40 years now.
He came to me one day in my Whitstone NY home.
In my kitchen. I was washing dishes at the time.
Have never used a dishwasher since then, even though one of my homes had two.

What I meant is that I won't be learning anything new from now on.
Unless it's some small thought that never came to mind before.
My doctrinal beliefs are set...The house is built on the foundation of Jesus.

God is done with me. Not in a bad way. In a good way.
I've learned in whom I trust.
I've accepted what needs to be accepted.
I no longer question my last question to which there is no answer.

That's all I meant.
But pray for me anyway.
I need it.

 

[Helen]

You're replying to my saying that I still study my faith.
You tell me faith is not learned.

So...
Are YOU of the Christian faith?
The Jewish faith?
The Islamic faith?

Do YOU study your faith?

What on earth has any of that got to do with the price of onions!!
The living God is where our focus should be...not "studying" what men who call themselves wise, choose to tell us!
The bible says - "MY sheep know MY voice, and a stranger they will not follow"

 

[amadeus]

No. I didn't mean it in a sad way.
I've known Jesus over 40 years now.
He came to me one day in my Whitstone NY home.
In my kitchen. I was washing dishes at the time.
Have never used a dishwasher since then, even though one of my homes had two.

What I meant is that I won't be learning anything new from now on.
Unless it's some small thought that never came to mind before.
My doctrinal beliefs are set...The house is built on the foundation of Jesus.

God is done with me. Not in a bad way. In a good way.
I've learned in whom I trust.
I've accepted what needs to be accepted.
I no longer question my last question to which there is no answer.

That's all I meant.
But pray for me anyway.
I need it.

You are most certainly in my prayers!