Catholics; Do You Believe This?

[Brakelite]

Indeed, "the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype," and "whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it." The honor paid to sacred images is a "respectful veneration," not the adoration due to God alone:

So who's the black dude portrayed here? Black Pete? Okay, just ribbin'. But seriously, I don't know if anyone actually worships the Pope, however I do wonder how healthy it is to encourage such adulation among the fanatical fan base everywhere.


And besides, while the Catholic Church is welcome to argue that innocence of praying to an image, claiming the homage is going to whichever the images represents, I don't think they have a leg to stand on when it comes to the second commandment. Little wonder it had been removed from the Ten Commandments in many catechisms.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well, by their fruits ye shall know them.

Amen.

However - if you're saying that because you judge an entire Church based on the sins of a few of its members - you need to look on your OWN backyard . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Luke 12:[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
[52] For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
[53] The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

In my understanding of Revelation 20:4, there are three distinct time periods of the Church age during God's period of Grace through His Son:
The Early church: martyred for the witness of Jesus.
The Reformation church: martyred for the word of God.
The End time church: martyred for refusal of the "MoB".

Utter nonsense - and historically-bankrupt.
There were Protestants murdering hunfreds of thousands of Catholics as well through the ages.

Ummm, what period would you call that?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Synonyms for venerate

• adore,
• deify,
• glorify,
• revere,
• reverence,
• worship

Lev 26:
[1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Is there any place in your land you can think of that makes or rears up graven images and teaches people to bow down unto it, and teaches it is not contrary to Gods Commands?

I should have known you'd post something this ignorant.
Allow me to educate you . . .

"Synonym" does NOT mean that it is an exact definition of another word.

According to Webster's Collegiate Dictionary:
Frequently Asked Questions About venerate
How does the verb venerate differ from other similar words?
Some common synonyms of venerate are adore, reverence, revere, and worship. While all these words mean "to honor and admire profoundly and respectfully," venerate implies a holding as holy or sacrosanct because of character, association, or age.

Example: heroes still venerated
A war hero is venerated by a grateful public. He is NOIT "worshipped" as a god.
Even YOUR Ptotestant Fathers are venerated by MANY Protestants.

But unlike YOU - Catholics are just honest and knowledgeable enough NOT to accuse you of "worship" . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

All true. The question remains, is your church His church? And if so, what evidence do you have to support that? I ask this because there is the "sure word of prophecy" that reveals otherwise.

Ummmm, you mean the pewrversion of Biblical prophecy as see through the warped mind of your godess/founder, E.G. White.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You’ve outdone yourself....
Single handed biggest embarrassment of decent Catholics.

Hmmmmm. . . I must gave REALLY hit a nerve . . .

 

[Brakelite]

Hello Brakelite,

The Church is catholic by definition and surely includes the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

'one can say where the Church is but not where it is not'

The Catholic Church has identified pretty much all men of goodwill as belonging to it in one fashion or another.

Through Him,
And with Him,
And in Him,

In the unity if the Holy Spirit

All glory and honour are Yours
Almighty Father

Forever and ever

It's never to late to return to the Feast!

Pax et Bonum

There are many genuine Christians within the Catholic Church... Which means they are grafted into the original tree, and are counted as the children of God. This is no different to any denomination... Made up of tares and true grain. It is the true grain who being to God's church. Denominational membership guarantees nothing.

 

[Brakelite]

Amen.

However - if you're saying that because you judge an entire Church based on the sins of a few of its members - you need to look on your OWN backyard . . .

Actually I judge a church by the doctrines, the philosophy, and the dogmas it lives by. A union of church and state whereby the church utilizes the weapons and power of the state to implement and enforce ecclesiastical law is a heretical church. That goes for Catholic and protestant, and both were guilty of that in the past. Thing about that is that protestants, at least some of them, learned the lessons of history and changed. Unfortunately what we see in America and around the world is the reestablishment of such a union... In America by the protestant right with the aid of Catholic America, and around the world by the activities of the last 3 or 4 popes.

 

[Brakelite]

Amen.

However - if you're saying that because you judge an entire Church based on the sins of a few of its members - you need to look on your OWN backyard . . .

It's not about the sins of a few. It's about the principles and philosophies of the institution. Justifying and mitigating the persecutions of a1000 years means that today's Catholic hierarchy still agree with the concept... As some of your members on this forum devoutly defend.

 

[Brakelite]

Ummmm, you mean the pewrversion of Biblical prophecy as see through the warped mind of your godess/founder, E.G. White.

Ellen White defined no doctrine. Prophetic it otherwise. She did however confirm the studies of her contemporaries, which by and large confirmed the studies of dozens of reformers over the previous 600 years. Even your own church fathers saw the Antichrist as coming to power the moment pagan Rome went away. Would some quotes help you in your endeavor to discover truth?

 

[Taken]

Hmmmmm. . . I must gave REALLY hit a nerve . . .

Just stating the obvious, of how you promote yourself as a Catholic and Authority on Catholicism WHILE BLIND to the FACT you encourage people to Run FROM Catholicism.
Manipulation failure.

 

[Earburner]

Utter nonsense - and historically-bankrupt.
There were Protestants murdering hunfreds of thousands of Catholics as well through the ages.

Ummm, what period would you call that?

No, you misunderstand.
It's not about the written word of God , but rather the Living Word of God Himself. Revelation 20:4.

Jesus desires for both Catholic and Protestant Christians that there be unity. Ephesians 4:1-13.

One has to come to a better understanding of how being a "priest" is God's calling for ALL true believers. We are not to be priests over others, but rather "UNTO God", being the Body of Christ in His stead, FOR the salvation of others.
Revelation 1[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed US from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made US kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Peter 2[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
[10] Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

It's not about being Catholic or Protestant, it's about being a "Born Again Christian". John 3:3-8, Romans 8:8-9.

500 years pass since the Protestant Reformation.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Just stating the obvious, of how you promote yourself as a Catholic and Authority on Catholicism WHILE BLIND to the FACT you encourage people to Run FROM Catholicism.
Manipulation failure.

Ummmm, that's NOT what all of the PMs that I get from posters here say when I expose your manure . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, you misunderstand.
It's not about the written word of God , but rather the Living Word of God Himself. Revelation 20:4.

Jesus desires for both Catholic and Protestant Christians that there be unity. Ephesians 4:1-13.

One has to come to a better understanding of how being a "priest" is God's calling for ALL true believers. We are not to be priests over others, but rather "UNTO God", being the Body of Christ in His stead, FOR the salvation of others.
Revelation 1[5] And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed US from our sins in his own blood,
[6] And hath made US kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Peter 2[9] But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
[10] Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Correct - Jesus DOES desire the Unity of all Christians.
And ALL Chriustians need to come home to His ONE Church.

As for ALL of us being priests - in the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
- The High Priest (Lev. 16, Haggai 1:12-14 S).
- The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood (Lev. 16).
- The rest of the people were a General priesthood of believers (Exod. 19:6).

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
- Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
- The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
- The General priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type.

In Rom 15:15-16, Paul uses the word “Hierurgeo”, which is the verb form of the Greek “Hierus” (priests) – the SAME word used for “priest” throughout the NT.

Rom 15:15-16:
But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the PRIESTLY service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Your KJV translates this word as “Minister” because of an obvious anti-Priest Protestant agenda.

What the following verses are describing is the definition of the duties of the Ministerial Priesthood:
(John 20:21-23, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, 2 Cor. 2:10, James 5:14-15)

It's not about being Catholic or Protestant, it's about being a "Born Again Christian".

John 3:3-8, Romans 8:8-9.
500 years pass since the Protestant Reformation.

It'd sbout being part of His ONE unified Body (John 17:21-23).

It's NOT about tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-dplintering bodyi that ALL teach different doctrines based on the personal interpretations of the human founders of each Protestant sect.
Remember - the Catholic Church didn't break away from Protestantism.

There was ONE Church that your Protestant Fathers divorced themseves from - ans that's what you need to deal with.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Actually I judge a church by the doctrines, the philosophy, and the dogmas it lives by. A union of church and state whereby the church utilizes the weapons and power of the state to implement and enforce ecclesiastical law is a heretical church. That goes for Catholic and protestant, and both were guilty of that in the past. Thing about that is that protestants, at least some of them, learned the lessons of history and changed. Unfortunately what we see in America and around the world is the reestablishment of such a union... In America by the protestant right with the aid of Catholic America, and around the world by the activities of the last 3 or 4 popes.

Look around you.

I don't know what color the sjy is in YOUR world - but but the Catholic Church has ZERO temporal power in the U.S. and around the world. If if DID - things like abortion would be non-existant. Whether YOU choose to admit it or not - the Catholic Church IS and always HAS been at the forefront of this fight.

Whatever fantasies YOU have about the Church to keep your hate alive are just that - fantasies.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It's not about the sins of a few. It's about the principles and philosophies of the institution. Justifying and mitigating the persecutions of a1000 years means that today's Catholic hierarchy still agree with the concept... As some of your members on this forum devoutly defend.

And now' we're back to persecutions - which YOU yourself have admitted was not just a "Catholic" thing.
There is enough blame to go around for just about everybody.

How can you expect to have an intelligent conversation - while speaking out of BOTH sides of your mouth??

 

[Earburner]

Correct - Jesus DOES desire the Unity of all Christians.
And ALL Chriustians need to come home to His ONE Church.

As for ALL of us being priests - in the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
- The High Priest (Lev. 16, Haggai 1:12-14 S).
- The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood (Lev. 16).
- The rest of the people were a General priesthood of believers (Exod. 19:6).

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
- Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
- The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
- The General priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type.

In Rom 15:15-16, Paul uses the word “Hierurgeo”, which is the verb form of the Greek “Hierus” (priests) – the SAME word used for “priest” throughout the NT.

Rom 15:15-16:
But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the PRIESTLY service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Your KJV translates this word as “Minister” because of an obvious anti-Priest Protestant agenda.

What the following verses are describing is the definition of the duties of the Ministerial Priesthood:
(John 20:21-23, 2 Cor. 5:18-20, 2 Cor. 2:10, James 5:14-15)

It'd sbout being part of His ONE unified Body (John 17:21-23).

It's NOT about tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-dplintering bodyi that ALL teach different doctrines based on the personal interpretations of the human founders of each Protestant sect.
Remember - the Catholic Church didn't break away from Protestantism.

There was ONE Church that your Protestant Fathers divorced themseves from - ans that's what you need to deal with.

Nope, you missed it.
Again, it's not about being Catholic or Protestant, it's about being a "Born Again Christian". John 3:3-8, Romans 8:8-9.
Apparently, you do know about your religion, but you are lacking in understanding of what it is to be "born again".
John.3[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

 

[Earburner]

Your KJV translates this word as “Minister” because of an obvious anti-Priest Protestant agenda.

Yep! Catholics are extreme to the right about that, and the Protestants are far to the left.
However, as I say, it's not about the religion of Catholics vs. Protestants, it's about
Rev.3[20] Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. Again, John 3:3-8, Romans 8:8-9.
No church can make anyone a priest, only the Lord Jesus does that!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nope, you missed it.
Again, it's not about being Catholic or Protestant, it's about being a "Born Again Christian". John 3:3-8, Romans 8:8-9.
Apparently, you do know about your religion, but you are lacking in understanding of what it is to be "born again".
John.3[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

We are born again at Baptism (John 3:5) - but it doesn't stop there.

We must live our lives iin cooperation woth God's grace and endure in faith until the end
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

Cooperating with His grace includes listenoing to His Church. If you reject His Church - you reject HIM and the ONE who sent Him (Luke 10:16).

The Bible tells us that His CHURCH - not the individual - is the pillar and foundation of Truth v(1 Tim. 3:15) and the FULLNESS of Christ. (Eph. 1:22-23).

 

[Taken]

Ummmm, that's NOT what all of the PMs that I get from posters here say when I expose your manure . . .

Gossiper to boot...not surprised.