Can Satan create?

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I think it would be more accurate to say Satan causes confusion and chaos rather than create it

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Do you believe that Satan can ‘create’ or is creating strictly an ability of God?

No Satan is not a creator.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Consider all satan can create is something that already is or has already been, which means its (origin) cannot be Satan as creator. Sure he can build images of something already made. “False” idols. He can create(order)confusion of what already is. I would suggest no, Satan cannot create. I’m not even certain satan can tell time.

Ecclesiastes 1:9-10
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. [10] Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

I would say that Satan influence people to listen to him therefore he becomes these people God. Satan also influence people to build images. Also because Satan influence people to listen to his lies about how people should live who God is and what type person God is Satan has caused a great confusion in the world. Causing people to listen to him (Satan) instead of God is simply leading people down the wrong path not creating anything.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I believe only God can read the mind of those... with the mind of Christ. Those with the mind of the son of perdition...don't they already have similar thoughts: hate, lie, cheat, steal, defraud brother, murder...maybe satan can read the mind of one that shares his same passions.

I don't believe Satan can read minds but he has been around since before God created us so Satan has study mankind so much that he can tell when something like greed, violence, jealousy and hatred controls someone. He knows how to manipulate such people.

 

[Harvest 1874]

Hi H2S
How could you believe God created evil?
If God is all good, where is there room for evil?
ALL means all.

John said Good IS love.
1 John 4:8

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Isa 45:7 AV

“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?” Amos 3:6 AV

As usual poor translations tend to give the wrong impressions.

Where did evil originate? Is God the author of evil?

The word evil in the texts cited above has the meaning in the Hebrew language of adversity (calamity). These evils or calamities were sent upon the Jews as chastisements for their violation of the terms of the covenant, which they had made with the Lord. The evil here referred to was not evil in the sense of its being a wrong or a sin. Right and wrong, good and evil as principles have always existed and always will.

Principles are eternal. Sin was produced by the evil principle becoming active, and began with Satan who permitted evil to control and dominate his course of action. Satan introduced sin and evil into the world when he induced our first parents to disobey the Divine command. Thus the race has come under the dominion of sin and death supervised by Satan, the God (ruler) of this "present evil world." (2 Cor 4:4)

At the appointed time when the Lord shall again control earth's affairs, establishing his own kingdom in the earth, Satan is to be bound and eventually will be destroyed, while evil will gradually cease to be active until at the close of Christ's reign, when sin and evil in their various forms, suffering, and death, shall be no more. (Rev 21:3-5)

An example of how sin became an active principle with man is shown in the example of Cain.

“So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin (The spirit of Satan) lies at the door (Crouching, ready to spring into your heart at the next misstep). And it’s (Satan’s) desire is for you, but you should rule over it. Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.” Gen 4:6-8

Cain allowed anger, malice, hatred and strife to burn in his heart, and thus he became a murderer.

The following scripture proves conclusively that God is not the creator of evil.

“For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.” Luke 6:43-45

“For God is not the author (the creator) of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.” 1 Cor 14:33

 

[VictoryinJesus]

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Isa 45:7 AV

“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?” Amos 3:6 AV

As usual poor translations tend to give the wrong impressions.

Where did evil originate? Is God the author of evil?

The word evil in the texts cited above has the meaning in the Hebrew language of adversity (calamity). These evils or calamities were sent upon the Jews as chastisements for their violation of the terms of the covenant, which they had made with the Lord. The evil here referred to was not evil in the sense of its being a wrong or a sin. Right and wrong, good and evil as principles have always existed and always will.

Principles are eternal. Sin was produced by the evil principle becoming active, and began with Satan who permitted evil to control and dominate his course of action. Satan introduced sin and evil into the world when he induced our first parents to disobey the Divine command. Thus the race has come under the dominion of sin and death supervised by Satan, the God (ruler) of this "present evil world." (2 Cor 4:4)

At the appointed time when the Lord shall again control earth's affairs, establishing his own kingdom in the earth, Satan is to be bound and eventually will be destroyed, while evil will gradually cease to be active until at the close of Christ's reign, when sin and evil in their various forms, suffering, and death, shall be no more. (Rev 21:3-5)

An example of how sin became an active principle with man is shown in the example of Cain.

“So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin (The spirit of Satan) lies at the door (Crouching, ready to spring into your heart at the next misstep). And it’s (Satan’s) desire is for you, but you should rule over it. Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.” Gen 4:6-8

Cain allowed anger, malice, hatred and strife to burn in his heart, and thus he became a murderer.

The following scripture proves conclusively that God is not the creator of evil.

“For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.” Luke 6:43-45

“For God is not the author (the creator) of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.” 1 Cor 14:33

Yes, God is always good. I believe it. I also believe man is the author of confusion and possibly we give satan way too much credit and acknowledgement. A few questions you maybe can help me understand better because I want to understand and not serve a false god I’ve created in my own mind. There is a difference between calamity and man’s evil deeds, yes. But is calamity not the incubator: travail, persecution, vestation, cursed ...bringing about a genuine agreement with God and a man turned from his own ways. Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord , and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord .

Can you answer who formed the weapon? Scripture said God created the waster to destroy. Is the weapon used by the “waster” not the flesh?

Psalm 88:4-7
[4] I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength: [5] Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand. [6] Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps. [7] Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah.

1 Kings 11:14
[14] And the Lord stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he was of the king's seed in Edom.

Exodus 32:14
[14] And the Lord repented of the evil(calamity)which he thought to do unto his people.

Revelation 16:9
[9] And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.—which had power over these plagues. Is it wise to give satan the glory by saying “satan is in control” rather than crying out to the one true God, Creator of all.

Revelation 9:20-21
[20] And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: [21] Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Revelation 3:19
[19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

 

[brakelite]

We do not know how, or where sin came from...but we know that the covetousness and pride that developed within Lucifer was the opposite...the direct opposite...to the character of He who created that esteemed angel. God is love. Pride and covetousness is selfishness. The opposite of love. When Adam chose to follow Eve , their progeny was infected with the same selfishness that they manifested. That selfishness suggested to them by the serpent. "God has held something back from you. You can become like Him, but He doesn't want the competition. You mean you can't eat of every tree? Why not? What's wrong with this tree? See, it isn't hurting me, in fact, it is beautiful, ripe, delicious. And you will become like God. And don't believe Him when He says you will die. Has anything else ever died? No, you won't really die, you';; live forever...like Him; and you will know everything. just like Him". The moment that spirit of selfishness was accepted, it took root, grew, and became the curse of mankind...and only death can cure it.
Satan exploits our weaknesses. Over 6000 years of selfish and conceited abuse and pride, we are really easy pickings. He cane not read our minds, but he can certainly read our emotions and body language... what excites us...what pleases our carnal natures...what amuses us. He still uses the same tactic he used in the beginning. Suggests we are going without. "That I need this, I need that. (His temptations are always in the first person; makes you believe they are your ideas, when in fact they are his) I can't survive without this...I can't meet my potential without that. Only by doing this can I be happy...only by not doing that can I help myself to succeed. " All perfectly designed to destroy our faith in a loving God...all suggesting that God cannot...will not...and doesn't want to provide for us. "I can't trust Him" he says. "He isn't reliable. God helps only those who help themselves. God blesses only those who deserve it. Who have earned it." Satan removes grace. Distorts mercy. And destroys the character of God, by manipulating ours. Then lies as to who is responsible. The disasters are 'an act of God". "My baby died because it was God's will." "I am hungry and homeless because God doesn't care". "I am suffering because I am a sinner and deserve to die and God is punishing me".
Satan is clever...in fact brilliant. And stupid. Insane. I mean, what kind of insanity possesses the mind of one who fronts up to his own Creator and offers Him the world if He would bow down and worship???? What kind of stupid reads, and believes prophecy, has seen its fulfilment to the letter for 6000 years, reads of his own impending destruction, yet still believes he can take over the city of God???? And...think about it....
What kind of brilliant made him think he could enter the church and convince Christians to worship him instead of Christ every Sunday morning??????

 

[GodsGrace]

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” Isa 45:7 AV

“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?” Amos 3:6 AV

As usual poor translations tend to give the wrong impressions.

Where did evil originate? Is God the author of evil?

The word evil in the texts cited above has the meaning in the Hebrew language of adversity (calamity). These evils or calamities were sent upon the Jews as chastisements for their violation of the terms of the covenant, which they had made with the Lord. The evil here referred to was not evil in the sense of its being a wrong or a sin. Right and wrong, good and evil as principles have always existed and always will.

Principles are eternal. Sin was produced by the evil principle becoming active, and began with Satan who permitted evil to control and dominate his course of action. Satan introduced sin and evil into the world when he induced our first parents to disobey the Divine command. Thus the race has come under the dominion of sin and death supervised by Satan, the God (ruler) of this "present evil world." (2 Cor 4:4)

At the appointed time when the Lord shall again control earth's affairs, establishing his own kingdom in the earth, Satan is to be bound and eventually will be destroyed, while evil will gradually cease to be active until at the close of Christ's reign, when sin and evil in their various forms, suffering, and death, shall be no more. (Rev 21:3-5)

An example of how sin became an active principle with man is shown in the example of Cain.

“So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin (The spirit of Satan) lies at the door (Crouching, ready to spring into your heart at the next misstep). And it’s (Satan’s) desire is for you, but you should rule over it. Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.” Gen 4:6-8

Cain allowed anger, malice, hatred and strife to burn in his heart, and thus he became a murderer.

The following scripture proves conclusively that God is not the creator of evil.

“For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.” Luke 6:43-45

“For God is not the author (the creator) of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.” 1 Cor 14:33

Great explanation...much better than I could ever do.
Agreed on all.

 

[GodsGrace]

So....if God created Satan...with his beauty, his intellect and his emotions then would it be conceivable that God, being a just God, created that in him? Or did it just birth and create itself in the heart of Satan to be puffed up with pride and jealousy against His creator?
It really is a very deep subject...…
Satan could not create his own emotions...God created those in him.

IMHO....:)

We have to decide if God is all good or if there's some evil in Him.
Then the question comes up as to how evil even got here.
Are there two Gods?? (dualism).
There can only be one God. So we're left with a real dilemma.

If the sin nature was not instilled in man UNTIL Adam ate of the forbidden fruit...then what made Eve eat it?

You bring up really good questions...to which there is no answer.
So this is what I do: I don't think about it! (I used to)

 

[Heart2Soul]

We have to decide if God is all good or if there's some evil in Him.
Then the question comes up as to how evil even got here.
Are there two Gods?? (dualism).
There can only be one God. So we're left with a real dilemma.

If the sin nature was not instilled in man UNTIL Adam ate of the forbidden fruit...then what made Eve eat it?

You bring up really good questions...to which there is no answer.
So this is what I do: I don't think about it! (I used to)

I think you are misunderstanding the whole picture here....God is not evil but He created all things....good and evil are polar opposites of each other as day and night and both must exist together to establish each other....like I said this is a very deep subject. I never ever said God was evil....so please don't try to put meaning into something that was not said...search the scriptures for yourself and make your own conclusions. With each comment I made I stated it was in my humble opinion....
The sin nature......what was God's purpose for putting a forbidden fruit tree in the Garden of Eden? How can God test our free will to choose to believe in Him and to be obedient to His commands except that He place something before us to see if we will obey or disobey?
But thank you for your thoughts on the matter and God Bless!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We have to decide if God is all good or if there's some evil in Him.

Consider it may be the definition of what is evil and what is good that man confuses.

Isaiah 5:20
[20] Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Genesis 50:17-20
[17] So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him. [18] And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants. [19] And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God? [20] But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

God is good. I’m never suggesting He is not. John 3:17 “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

 

[GodsGrace]

I think you are misunderstanding the whole picture here....God is not evil but He created all things....good and evil are polar opposites of each other as day and night and both must exist together to establish each other....like I said this is a very deep subject. I never ever said God was evil....so please don't try to put meaning into something that was not said...search the scriptures for yourself and make your own conclusions. With each comment I made I stated it was in my humble opinion....
The sin nature......what was God's purpose for putting a forbidden fruit tree in the Garden of Eden? How can God test our free will to choose to believe in Him and to be obedient to His commands except that He place something before us to see if we will obey or disobey?
But thank you for your thoughts on the matter and God Bless!

A deep subject indeed.
I fear you did not understand my post.
No problem.

 

[GodsGrace]

Consider it may be the definition of what is evil and what is good that man confuses.

Isaiah 5:20
[20] Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Genesis 50:17-20
[17] So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him. [18] And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants. [19] And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God? [20] But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

God is good. I’m never suggesting He is not. John 3:17 “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”

How many definitions could there be of good and evil??
Good is good.
Evil is evil...we all know the definitions.

I'm not sure why you posted this.
Of course God is all good.
Why else would John have said this after living with Jesus for over 3 years?

 

[Harvest 1874]

Yes, God is always good. I believe it. I also believe man is the author of confusion and possibly we give satan way too much credit and acknowledgement. A few questions you maybe can help me understand better because I want to understand and not serve a false god I’ve created in my own mind. There is a difference between calamity and man’s evil deeds, yes. But is calamity not the incubator: travail, persecution, vestation, cursed ...bringing about a genuine agreement with God and a man turned from his own ways. Isaiah 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord , and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord .

Can you answer who formed the weapon? Scripture said God created the waster to destroy. Is the weapon used by the “waster” not the flesh?

Psalm 88:4-7
[4] I am counted with them that go down into the pit: I am as a man that hath no strength: [5] Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand. [6] Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps. [7] Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all thy waves. Selah.

1 Kings 11:14
[14] And the Lord stirred up an adversary unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite: he was of the king's seed in Edom.

Exodus 32:14
[14] And the Lord repented of the evil(calamity)which he thought to do unto his people.

Revelation 16:9
[9] And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.—which had power over these plagues. Is it wise to give satan the glory by saying “satan is in control” rather than crying out to the one true God, Creator of all.

Revelation 9:20-21
[20] And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: [21] Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Revelation 3:19
[19] As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

First of all let us briefly examine your text; we included verse 16 as the two go together.

“Behold, I have created the blacksmith who blows the coals in the fire, who brings forth an instrument [weapon] for his work; and I have created the spoiler to destroy. No weapon formed against you shall prosper, and every tongue which rises against you in judgment you shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is from me,” Says the Lord.” Isa 54:16, 17

I believe Enoch111 has already explained to you whom the “spoiler” or “waster” is; it is indeed the “destroyer”, the Adversary, Satan himself.

“The “smith” is Satan. Just as the blacksmith heats a horseshoe until it is almost white hot, removes it from the fire, hammers and hammers and hammers it into shape, dips it in water, and nails it to the horse’s hoof, so the Church needs corresponding hot, cold, and hammering experiences. (This is also shown in the process of constructing the Golden Lampstand which was placed in the Holy of the Tabernacle). God has overruled that Satan is His minister in connection with the ministry of evil. Of course Satan tries to destroy God’s work and purpose, but with all of his persecutions and hammerings to denigrate God and His children, he is actually serving to develop the Church and perfect them for their future positions. The ministry of evil perfects the Church. As with Job, God allows testings of the consecrated, even to the core, but within predetermined parameters.

When God created Lucifer, he was perfect until the day iniquity was found in him (Ezek. 28:15). At the time of the Garden of Eden incident, Lucifer fell from his perfection. Since then God has used Satan as his hangman to unwittingly accomplish His purpose, and down through the centuries Satan has tried God’s people of both spiritual and natural Israel. Not only has natural Israel been disciplined by the Diaspora (the dispersion), but at the end of the age during Jacob’s Trouble He will purge natural Israel.

God “created [permitted] the smith [Satan].” In His providence God is so capable that He can do certain things without infringing upon the moral liberty of the individual(s) involved. In other words, God will set the stage without interfering with either human or angelic free moral agency. Stated another way, He knows in advance how people will react. An example is that of Pharaoh in the Exodus account, which God raised up to glorify His name. Verse 16 is saying that Satan will be used as a tool of God. Because God knows how Satan will react under certain conditions, that which God desires to get rid of will be taken care of by this agency. (“I have created the waster to destroy.”) Hence Satan’s extremes will ultimately result in good by developing both the Church and natural Israel.” (The Book of Isaiah)

You asked: Can you answer who formed the weapon? Scripture said God created the waster to destroy. Is the weapon used by the “waster” not the flesh?

Verse 16 states that it is the “smith” who brings forth the weapon for his work.

Verses 16 and 17 indicate a hard experience is coming (the hour of temptation), but it will not harm the feet members as new creatures. “No weapon formed against you [the new creature] shall prosper [prevail]…” Men can kill the body, but they can’t kill the new life which is in you.

I believe the “instrument” or “weapon” used by the Adversary can be in reference to any individual, group of individuals or agencies (whether animate and inanimate) which he might employ against the saints.

Often times we tend to look for deeper meanings in some things which are not there; this may well be the case with our text here.

If we simply take the text as it is given and don’t try to force anything upon it, it simply states that as the Lord is the creator of both the black smith who constructs the weapons of war, and of those who wage war he has power over both, neither of whom can harm you (the new creature). The flesh of course is whole different story, but then if you have fully consecrated yourself to the Lord, then you have already sacrificed your earthly life rights, and as such being placed upon the Lord’s altar they must be fully consumed, surrendered. “Be thou faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life”. (Rev 2:10) How that life is surrendered is not up to you or me.

The life to which we are justified by our faith in Jesus' ransom must be laid down, even as he laid down his life. (John 10:18) We cannot fully possess the new nature, the spirit nature until the human nature is entirely dissolved, dead.

As it is written,

“He who finds his life [who keeps hold of the life already consecrated to sacrifice] will lose it, and he who loses his life [surrenders his earthly life] for my sake will find it [i.e. Life much more abundant than that which is now possessed].” Matt 10:39

 

[VictoryinJesus]

First of all let us briefly examine your text; we included verse 16 as the two go together.

“Behold, I have created the blacksmith who blows the coals in the fire, who brings forth an instrument [weapon] for his work; and I have created the spoiler to destroy. No weapon formed against you shall prosper, and every tongue which rises against you in judgment you shall condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is from me,” Says the Lord.” Isa 54:16, 17

I believe Enoch111 has already explained to you whom the “spoiler” or “waster” is; it is indeed the “destroyer”, the Adversary, Satan himself.

“The “smith” is Satan. Just as the blacksmith heats a horseshoe until it is almost white hot, removes it from the fire, hammers and hammers and hammers it into shape, dips it in water, and nails it to the horse’s hoof, so the Church needs corresponding hot, cold, and hammering experiences. (This is also shown in the process of constructing the Golden Lampstand which was placed in the Holy of the Tabernacle). God has overruled that Satan is His minister in connection with the ministry of evil. Of course Satan tries to destroy God’s work and purpose, but with all of his persecutions and hammerings to denigrate God and His children, he is actually serving to develop the Church and perfect them for their future positions. The ministry of evil perfects the Church. As with Job, God allows testings of the consecrated, even to the core, but within predetermined parameters.

When God created Lucifer, he was perfect until the day iniquity was found in him (Ezek. 28:15). At the time of the Garden of Eden incident, Lucifer fell from his perfection. Since then God has used Satan as his hangman to unwittingly accomplish His purpose, and down through the centuries Satan has tried God’s people of both spiritual and natural Israel. Not only has natural Israel been disciplined by the Diaspora (the dispersion), but at the end of the age during Jacob’s Trouble He will purge natural Israel.

God “created [permitted] the smith [Satan].” In His providence God is so capable that He can do certain things without infringing upon the moral liberty of the individual(s) involved. In other words, God will set the stage without interfering with either human or angelic free moral agency. Stated another way, He knows in advance how people will react. An example is that of Pharaoh in the Exodus account, which God raised up to glorify His name. Verse 16 is saying that Satan will be used as a tool of God. Because God knows how Satan will react under certain conditions, that which God desires to get rid of will be taken care of by this agency. (“I have created the waster to destroy.”) Hence Satan’s extremes will ultimately result in good by developing both the Church and natural Israel.” (The Book of Isaiah)

You asked: Can you answer who formed the weapon? Scripture said God created the waster to destroy. Is the weapon used by the “waster” not the flesh?

Verse 16 states that it is the “smith” who brings forth the weapon for his work.

Verses 16 and 17 indicate a hard experience is coming (the hour of temptation), but it will not harm the feet members as new creatures. “No weapon formed against you [the new creature] shall prosper [prevail]…” Men can kill the body, but they can’t kill the new life which is in you.

I believe the “instrument” or “weapon” used by the Adversary can be in reference to any individual, group of individuals or agencies (whether animate and inanimate) which he might employ against the saints.

Often times we tend to look for deeper meanings in some things which are not there; this may well be the case with our text here.

If we simply take the text as it is given and don’t try to force anything upon it, it simply states that as the Lord is the creator of both the black smith who constructs the weapons of war, and of those who wage war he has power over both, neither of whom can harm you (the new creature). The flesh of course is whole different story, but then if you have fully consecrated yourself to the Lord, then you have already sacrificed your earthly life rights, and as such being placed upon the Lord’s altar they must be fully consumed, surrendered. “Be thou faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life”. (Rev 2:10) How that life is surrendered is not up to you or me.

The life to which we are justified by our faith in Jesus' ransom must be laid down, even as he laid down his life. (John 10:18) We cannot fully possess the new nature, the spirit nature until the human nature is entirely dissolved, dead.

As it is written,

“He who finds his life [who keeps hold of the life already consecrated to sacrifice] will lose it, and he who loses his life [surrenders his earthly life] for my sake will find it [i.e. Life much more abundant than that which is now possessed].” Matt 10:39

Thank you. That is a lot to revisit because I’ve been misunderstanding it for some time now. It is going to take much prayer.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I believe Enoch111 has already explained to you whom the “spoiler” or “waster” is; it is indeed the “destroyer”, the Adversary, Satan himself.

“The “smith” is Satan. Just as the blacksmith heats a horseshoe until it is almost white hot, removes it from the fire, hammers and hammers and hammers it into shape, dips it in water, and nails it to the horse’s hoof, so the Church needs corresponding hot, cold, and hammering experiences. (This is also shown in the process of constructing the Golden Lampstand

Yeah, I’m struggling with this. Let me see if I understand...as the OP asks if satan can create: Is it safe to say God created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and planted it in the garden? Then the woman and man eat of it. Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Evil was found in satan but satan doesn’t create so how did it get there. God created the “waster” to destory which was originally beautiful, but first satan (the smith) fashions a instrument (weapon) which in turn serves God: you said, “ Just as the blacksmith heats a horseshoe until it is almost white hot, removes it from the fire, hammers and hammers and hammers it into shape, dips it in water, and nails it to the horse’s hoof, so the Church needs corresponding hot, cold, and hammering experiences. (This is also shown in the process of constructing the Golden Lampstand[

But then their are others of the blacksmith’s(wasters) work(hammering) that aren’t chosen of God and end up being the ones(some seriously damaged individuals considering satan has worked on them) that come against Gods people in the end because they belong to the destroyer “waster” and are waste also? All the while God uses satan to do His will in trying His people by fire?

Isaiah 41:14-16
[14] Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the Lord , and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel. [15] Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shalt thresh the mountains, and beat them small, and shalt make the hills as chaff. [16] Thou shalt fan them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the whirlwind shall scatter them: and thou shalt rejoice in the Lord , and shalt glory in the Holy One of Israel.

God hardened pharaoh’s heart. Exodus 9:12-13 And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had spoken unto Moses. [13] And the Lord said unto Moses, Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God of the Hebrews, Let my people go, that they may serve me.

 

[amadeus]

How many definitions could there be of good and evil??
Good is good.
Evil is evil...we all know the definitions.

We know men's definitions, but how well do we know God's?

God is alone is good according to Jesus: Mark 10:18

God is where ...the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days..." Isa 30:26 To the extent that we cannot look into that light without going blind, we come short of understanding what Good [God] really is.

So what is darkness? What is evil? Is it not where man moved when he disobeyed God? Man could no longer see anything looking toward God. The brightness of the Light made him completely blind:

"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." John 1:5

How blind are we? How good are our eyes? Has our vision improved since we first believed and received the Holy Ghost?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

And without vision, we perish. We have no Life in us: Prov 29:18

Who can now open his eyes and see the unfiltered, uncovered brightness of the sun without becoming blind?
Perhaps we still have growing to do:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yeah, I’m struggling with this. Let me see if I understand...as the OP asks if satan can create: Is it safe to say God created the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and planted it in the garden? Then the woman and man eat of it. Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Good questions Nancy and as I have stated many times here is that this is a very deep subject matter and takes a lot of study through scripture and prayer to understand it.....and I still don't understand all of it but I trust God and His infinite Wisdom in the matter.

 

[marksman]

Do you believe that Satan can ‘create’ or is creating strictly an ability of God?

Yes, he creates havoc.

 

[GodsGrace]

We know men's definitions, but how well do we know God's?

God is alone is good according to Jesus: Mark 10:18

God is where ...the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days..." Isa 30:26 To the extent that we cannot look into that light without going blind, we come short of understanding what Good [God] really is.

So what is darkness? What is evil? Is it not where man moved when he disobeyed God? Man could no longer see anything looking toward God. The brightness of the Light made him completely blind:

"And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not." John 1:5

How blind are we? How good are our eyes? Has our vision improved since we first believed and received the Holy Ghost?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

And without vision, we perish. We have no Life in us: Prov 29:18

Who can now open his eyes and see the unfiltered, uncovered brightness of the sun without becoming blind?
Perhaps we still have growing to do:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

I like the above but want to make sure what you're saying....
Evil is not the absence of good.
Evil is its own entity.
Jesus freed many from possession of the evil ones,,,satan's cohorts.
They are a power unto themselves...