Can A Person Be a Christian And A Sinner At The Same Time ?
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Yes we can, and we have forgiveness already for it. All we need to do is confess and get up and walk agaib in the narrow path. We walk in the grace of God.
I agree and note that there is a difference between a believer of Christ and a follower of Christ. I don't see the possibility of one who is following Christ being overcome with sin.
Believers and followers of Jesus Christ are what most people call Christians. I have seen strong believers taken down in a sin. It does happen and it is tragic when they don't get up again. Have they lost their salvation? No, but they do lose much reward that was being stored up for them.
While most might consider them to be the same it is not so in the scriptures. The English word Christian is derived from the Greek word Christianos and is found only twice in the scriptures (Acts 26:28 & 1Pete 4:16) and means follower of Christ. The many other times the scriptures refer to fellow believers/ brothers in Christ the Greek word adelphos is used.
Why is this important? Either one follows Christ, believes in Him, refers to himself as a Christian or he doesn't. This is all semantics.
Sanctification and righteousness are not the same things. One in Christ may do unrighteousness (sin), but does not become unrighteous in God's eyes. That is, of course, because our righteousness before God is no longer based on our works, but on Christ's. We do, however, become unclean through sin; and sanctification is the process that cleanses acts of unrighteousness and restores the fellowship of holiness. All unrighteousness is sin. If sin originates in the old Adamaic nature, and the old man is dead, how does the new man sin?
If believers do not repent, they will be judged along with other unbelievers because not repenting is rebellion toward God. Romans 6:23.
Your theology leans heavily toward the OSAS doctrine. Born-again believers are those who walk according to the Spirit and have crucified the flesh and it's lusts. Romans 8:5, 6, 7, 8, 9-10, 11. However, there has always been a battle for sovereignty between soul and spirit as noted in Galatians 5:16, 17. When we drop into our soul, we can become easily enticed by sin. James 1:14,15 When we sin, we must repent.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [sup]10 [/sup]If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
This has nothing to do with our status as believers, it has to do with right standing with God.
1 John 2:1
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
Blessings!!!
I dislike any labelling, such as OSAS. God's grace is sufficient. Our works cannot save us.
So He is faithful and just to only cleanse us from SOME unrighteousness at a time?
HollyRock, on 15 January 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:
Christians can be carnal and they may even sin, but because they are Born-Again, their spiritual status is still Christian...not sinner. Only an unbeliever has the status of a sinner.
Didn't seem to bother you in your reply to Holly? OSAS believers think they can do what they like without repercussions....They can receive Christ at salvation and go off and do their own thing [without Christ] then believe they have salvation to look forward to at the end of their lives but they are wrong...you must produce fruit in keeping with repentance as was said by John to the Pharisees and teachers of the law...Matthew 3:7, 8, 9. Luke 3:7. 8.
Shalom!!!
He can only cleanse what we bring to the table. Things we do not bring to the light cannot be cleansed, except by fire (so to speak).
For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. 1 Corinthians 11:31-32
I believe it is a nasty mischaracterization to state that OSAS proponents believe they can sin all they like, taking God's grace for granted. That is not a Christian view, is it? That is why I never take on any labels, but only abide by what God says, which is that we who know Christ will produce fruit in keeping with our salvation.
God is never exhausted of His mercy, but we shouldn't be using it as an excuse for foolish living. However, we are not saved by works, or maintained by works, either.
Galatians 3:11-12
So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.” This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”
John 10:27-29
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. [sup]28[/sup] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, [sup]29[/sup] for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand.
Renunciation of one's faith is possible. Jesus doesn;t force us to be saved, nor to even stay there. god will not allow anything to remove us from His hand, but we can leave by our own free will.
Romans 6:15-16
Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! [sup]16[/sup] Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.
Sin can be deadly by corrupting the heart. Satan uses a hardened heart to cause a person to renounce his faith, rejecting the Lord.
However, if we sin and do not renounce the Lord, He will not deny us, remaining faithful:
2 Timothy 2:11-13
[sup]11[/sup] This is a trustworthy saying:
If we die with him,
we will also live with him.
[sup]12[/sup] If we endure hardship,
we will reign with him.
If we deny him,
he will deny us.
[sup]13[/sup] If we are unfaithful,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot deny who he is.
God is never exhausted of His mercy, but we shouldn't be using it as an excuse for foolish living. However, we are not saved by works, or maintained by works, either.
Galatians 3:11-12
So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.” This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”
John 10:27-29
My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. [sup]28[/sup] I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them away from me, [sup]29[/sup] for my Father has given them to me, and he is more powerful than anyone else. No one can snatch them from the Father’s hand.
Renunciation of one's faith is possible. Jesus doesn;t force us to be saved, nor to even stay there. god will not allow anything to remove us from His hand, but we can leave by our own free will.
Romans 6:15-16
Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law, does that mean we can go on sinning? Of course not! [sup]16[/sup] Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey? You can be a slave to sin, which leads to death, or you can choose to obey God, which leads to righteous living.
Sin can be deadly by corrupting the heart. Satan uses a hardened heart to cause a person to renounce his faith, rejecting the Lord.
However, if we sin and do not renounce the Lord, He will not deny us, remaining faithful:
2 Timothy 2:11-13
[sup]11[/sup] This is a trustworthy saying:
If we die with him,
we will also live with him.
[sup]12[/sup] If we endure hardship,
we will reign with him.
If we deny him,
he will deny us.
[sup]13[/sup] If we are unfaithful,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot deny who he is.
Good point! But you must also see that a person CAN give up everything on the altar and be completely cleased. Otherwise we could never be cleased from ALL unrighteousness.
Are we supposed to view this any other way? I know many OSAS believers who live this way...You obviously believe this also...
If you do not repent, you remain in sin and "Sin Separates you from God"
Shalom!!!
Many PEOPLE live this way. It is wrong.
It is old convenat that declares sin separating us from God. However, God has already judged all sin on Christ's body.
Romans 8:1-4
[sup]1[/sup] So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. [sup]2[/sup] And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. [sup]3[/sup] The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. [sup]4[/sup] He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.
If sin separates us from God, who says nothing can separate us from the love of Christ, then which sin is it that separates?
1 John 1:9
But if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.
Hebrews 6:4-9
[sup]4[/sup] For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit, [sup]5[/sup] who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come— [sup]6[/sup] and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame. [sup]7[/sup] When the ground soaks up the falling rain and bears a good crop for the farmer, it has God’s blessing. [sup]8[/sup] But if a field bears thorns and thistles, it is useless. The farmer will soon condemn that field and burn it. [sup]9[/sup] Dear friends, even though we are talking this way, we really don’t believe it applies to you. We are confident that you are meant for better things, things that come with salvation.
Those who are 'enlightened' and 'experience good things of heaven' and 'have tasted the goodness of the word of God' are not necessarily true believers who have received salvation but are mere tasters. This is a heart condition that only God can judge, as is told in Christ's description of the wheat and the tares.
You have no idea what you are talking about... :huh:
The Holy Spirit would not be given to mere tasters...
The Holy Spirit is the seal of our approval, the guarantee of our redemption. 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5, Ephesians 1:14 These believers had the Holy Spirit dwelling in them just as he dwells in all believers.
In Hebrews 6:4-9 the writer is talking to Jewish believers who have come from following the law. Paul was admonishing them if they turned back to their old ways. BTW: The Holy Spirit cannot be tested in this way. note: Hebrews 6:4 again.
"For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened—those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit"
The same fate can fall on anyone of us as it could on them. We are not exempt from falling away. Repentance is the key if we sin because without repentance, those who sin will remain that way. "Sin separates us from God"
Shalom!!!
