BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
What tradition teaches the first resurrection hasn't yet occurred?
They can't be of the Christian faith.
Because that would essentially be saying Yeshua is still entombed?
But shun profane and vain babblings
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They can't be of the Christian faith.
Because that would essentially be saying Yeshua is still entombed?
You may deny strong repeated truth that Jesus has already rose from the dead, but it makes no dent on the fact it is truth.
No, because they are a part of the first resurrection shown in Rev. 20.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Both the dead and the living in Christ are changed ….
1 Corinthians 15:51-55
King James Version
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
What @WPM and @Spiritual Israelite and others are trying to explain to you is that Revelation 20:4-6 is telling you that THEY who had been beheaded for refusal to worship the beast, whom John saw alive in their bodies (zao), lived and reigned with Christ ± a thousand years for thousands of years, give or take a few hundred (or many hundreds of years, depending on how long after the resurrection of Christ and how long before the return of Christ they were born into the world) - because the resurrection that is being called "the first resurrection" in this verse, is Christ's resurrection.
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Why do you make no differentiation between the body and the soul? Do you believe in soul sleep?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Do you believe that someone can avoid the second death any other way besides having part in the first resurrection?
Do you care if your interpretation of Revelation 20 lines up with the rest of scripture or not?
Tell me how you interpret the following passage. Does it refer to one or two hours that are coming when the dead will be raised?
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
How do you reconcile your doctrine with the following passage:
Matthew 13:47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind: 48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away. 49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, 50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
This is a lie. It does not say he saw them alive in their bodies, it says he saw their souls. You are twisting the text to make it say what you want it to say. The word "zao" refers to living and being alive. Do you not think the souls of the dead in Christ who are in heaven right now are alive? Do you believe in soul sleep?
From what I can see here, there are some believe that the resurrection has happened, and continuously still does now. From this life to the afterlife with Yahavah, he gives all a resurrection, be it condemned or of life, or of better than the normal (according to the writer of Hebrews.) There is a Kingdom that is set up with people entering it today, and there are people who are outside of that kingdom today.
Or that the resurrection has yet to have happened. Either way, it goes, thank you all for your responses and the logical reasons you believe you do. May the holy spirit of Yahavah, guide us to truth as close as one can get to it.
Or that the resurrection has yet to have happened. Either way, it goes, thank you all for your responses and the logical reasons you believe you do. May the holy spirit of Yahavah, guide us to truth as close as one can get to it.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Mankind was created to live on God's created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die and live forever in heaven". Death is the enemy of God.
You make the fact that God took on a human body and bore the sins of man upon Himself, died and rose again of no consequence by your question. There are dozens of scriptures speaking about the resurrection of the body in the New Testament, showing that death is the enemy of God.
The human spirit that dies in Christ will go to be with Christ when the body of the person dies - but because spirit is spirit, it will have no limbs because its limbs will be in the grave until the resurrection of the body when it is raised a spiritual incorruptible body that cannot decay.
Mankind was created to live on God's created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die and live forever in heaven". Death is the enemy of God.
Scripture does not tell us anything else. So your whole "soul-sleep" invention is your own - just like the most of your human-eology that masquerades as Christian theology.
Your interpretations of the Word of God are not of Christ - they are of your own flesh. Your own human mind.
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
That lines up with the rest of scripture which says that He started reigning when He was resurrected. Jesus knew that, why don't you?
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
And, at least we don't accuse you Premils of being part of a cult for merely misinterpreting Revelation 20 as if one's salvation depends on one's interpretation of Revelation 20. We emphasize Jesus's current authority as God and His kingship as King of kings and Lord of lords. But, we're supposedly part of a cult? Such nonsense and slander. Your salvation by interpreting Revelation 20 correctly doctrine contradicts that salvation is by grace through faith and not by works.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
It says they who had been beheaded lived (zao) and reigned with Christ - the word which in the New Testament is either talking about the living God, or of humans who are alive in their bodies wherever and whenever it appears.
The lie and the twisting of scripture is yours (one of your many lies).
The word záō (alive | living) is always referring either to the living God, or to humans who are alive in the body. The word is never used in reference to anyone who has died | fallen asleep | is not alive and living in the body:-
|| Matthew 16:16; Matthew 22:32; Matthew 26:63; Matthew 27:63; Mark 5:23; Mark 12:27; Mark 16:11; Luke 2:36; Luke 4:4; Luke 10:28; Luke 15:13; Luke 20:38; Luke 24:5; Luke 24:23; John 4:10; John 4:11; John 4:50; John 4:51; John 4:53; John 5:25; John 6:51; John 6:57; John 6:58; John 6:69; John 7:38; John 11:25; John 11:26; John 14:19; Acts 1:3; Acts 7:38; Acts 9:41; Acts 10:42; Acts 14:15; Acts 17:28; Acts 20:12; Acts 22:22; Acts 25:19; Acts 25:24; Acts 26:5; Acts 28:4; Romans 1:17; Romans 6:2; Romans 6:10; Romans 6:11; Romans 6:13; Romans 7:1; Romans 7:2; Romans 7:3; Romans 7:9; Romans 8:12; Romans 8:13; Romans 9:26; Romans 10:5; Romans 12:1; Romans 14:7; Romans 14:8; Romans 14:9; Romans 14:11; 1 Corinthians 7:39; 1 Corinthians 9:14; 1 Corinthians 15:45; 2 Corinthians 1:8; 2 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 4:11; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 2 Corinthians 6:9; 2 Corinthians 6:16; 2 Corinthians 13:4; Galatians 2:14; Galatians 2:19; Galatians 2:20; Galatians 3:11; Galatians 3:12; Galatians 5:25; Philippians 1:21; Philippians 1:22; Colossians 2:20; Colossians 3:7; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 3:8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Thessalonians 5:10; 1 Timothy 3:15; 1 Timothy 4:10; 1 Timothy 5:6; 1 Timothy 6:17; 2 Timothy 3:12; 2 Timothy 4:1; Titus 2:12; Hebrews 2:15; Hebrews 3:12; Hebrews 4:12; Hebrews 7:8; Hebrews 7:25; Hebrews 9:14; Hebrews 9:17; Hebrews 10:20; Hebrews 10:31; Hebrews 10:38; Hebrews 12:9; Hebrews 12:22; James 4:15; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 Peter 2:4; 1 Peter 2:5; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 Peter 4:5; 1 Peter 4:6; 1 John 4:9; Revelation 1:18; Revelation 2:8; Revelation 3:1; Revelation 4:9; Revelation 4:10; Revelation 5:14; Revelation 7:2; Revelation 7:17; Revelation 10:6; Revelation 13:14; Revelation 15:7; Revelation 16:3; Revelation 19:20 (cast alive into the lake of fire); Revelation 20:4.||
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
No, that is not right. Some of us are Amils and we are saying that the first resurrection itself was Christ's resurrection because that is what scripture teaches.
Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
And we are saying that believers spiritually have part in His resurrection and that is what having part in the first resurrection is about (Rev 20:6).
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
We Amils are being falsely accused of claiming that the bodily resurrection of the dead in Christ has already happened, but we do not believe that. We believe that will happen when Christ returns just as Premils do.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Scripture rarely even refers to the souls of the dead in Christ, so of course the word is going to be used to refer to being bodily alive a vast majority of the time. That proves nothing about how the word is used in Revelation 20 where the word is used to refer to the souls of physically DEAD people.
There is NOTHING which says that word cannot be used to refer to someone who is alive spiritually even though they are physically dead. Show me any Greek resource which says that word can only apply to those who are alive bodily.
You didn't answer my questions. Are you afraid to answer them? Do you not think the souls of the dead in Christ who are in heaven right now are alive? Do you believe in soul sleep?
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
It's the way you defend your misinterpretation of scripture with more misinterpretation which you change the meanings of to force to comply with your misinterpretation of Revelation 20, and the way you insult and attempt to belittle the views of those who disagree with your (false) theology that makes you like a cult.
Whatever you believe, it's good to know your faith in the Lord Yeshua. That is what matters, faithfully relying on the Lord Yeshua, and faithfully seeking out the Father in heaven. People continue to believe this or believe that either way, there is only one thing you can do is make clear what you believe, and that is about all I could do either.
There seems to be much confusion about the ETERNAL life we spiritually possess now when we are saved, and the IMMORTAL life we shall physically possess when the hour comes and all who are in the graves who have done good shall be resurrected immortal & incorruptible.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
There you go again - proving that you will interpret all scripture so as to force it to comply with your false interpretation of Revelation 20, which you so obviously have changed the meaning of it leaves all speechless who have not fallen for your error.
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