Both Israelis and Islamists will be wiped out

[tailgator]

I don't have a hard answer for this - the chapter is full of symbols. As I read it, 144,000 just seems to mean "everyone." If that's right, then some of them are saints of days past, while others were still future at the time it was written.

The 144000 are marked in their foreheads at a time of great tribulation in the land of Israel.And no ,it's not everyone in Israel who recieve the mark of God in their foreheads.Pay close attention to what happens to everyone in Israel who do not receive the mark of God in their foreheads.

Ezekiel 9

9 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.

10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.

 

[Wick Stick]

Plainly; just about all of the Prophecies are for a time distant from the Prophets. take Zechariah 9:9, where it says Jesus will ride on a donkey. Did Zechariah see that happen?

Yes. Zechariah's prophecy was originally about Joshua the son of Josedech, who came from humble origins to be a righteous high priest (the first good one they had in many years).

It was, of course, fulfilled a second time with Jesus entry into Jerusalem many years later. Prophecies can have multiple fulfillments.... that's why I asked why you think these should be fulfilled again.

Your preterist beliefs are wrong and just leave you in the dark.

Well, I DO believe that the prophets prophecies were all fulfilled in short time after they were given. If that makes me a preterist, then I guess I'll wear that. But if I'm a preterist I'm a pretty weird one... I believe the Bible demonstrates that multiple fulfillment of prophecies exists, and I do believe that Jesus will come again. Usually the term preterist is reserved for those who do not believe in such things.

I do not see a proper and complete fulfilment, in the first Century; of any of the verses I posted in #1
What makes me think they will take place soon, is the world situation, esp in the Middle East. Iran WILL attempt to nuke Israel.

Does the prospect of those graphic Prophesies scare you?

There's no fear in my beliefs. There is no pain to endure greater than has already been endured. When death comes, it will be a blessing.

 

[Wick Stick]

...but the number of people is not more than 144k and it does not and cannot include non-Israelite people.

Don't you believe that we are adopted? If so... then we all are Israel... even if we didn't start out that way.

 

[Wick Stick]

The 144000 are marked in their foreheads at a time of great tribulation in the land of Israel.And no ,it's not everyone in Israel who recieve the mark of God in their foreheads.Pay close attention to what happens to everyone in Israel who do not receive the mark of God in their foreheads.

Ezekiel 9

9 He cried also in mine ears with a loud voice, saying, Cause them that have charge over the city to draw near, even every man with his destroying weapon in his hand.

2 And, behold, six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar.

3 And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side;

4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

7 And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.

8 And it came to pass, while they were slaying them, and I was left, that I fell upon my face, and cried, and said, Ah Lord God! wilt thou destroy all the residue of Israel in thy pouring out of thy fury upon Jerusalem?

9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.

10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.

11 And, behold, the man clothed with linen, which had the inkhorn by his side, reported the matter, saying, I have done as thou hast commanded me.

I am not quite sure whether you are saying that this was done back in Ezekiel's day, or just that the event in Revelation is explained in terms of that chapter. May I pose your question back to you?

Were these 144,000 of Israel in Revelation 7 marked in their foreheads long ago or are they marked in their foreheads in the future?

 

[tailgator]

I am not quite sure whether you are saying that this was done back in Ezekiel's day, or just that the event in Revelation is explained in terms of that chapter. May I pose your question back to you?

Were these 144,000 of Israel in Revelation 7 marked in their foreheads long ago or are they marked in their foreheads in the future?

They are marked in their foreheads in the future
It will be at a time when the heavens depart as a scroll being rolled together and unbelieving jews are going underground and tell the mountains to fall on us.


Revelation. 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


Luke 23
28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.

30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

 

[Keraz]

Would posters make some effort to keep to the thread subject.

Prophesies I quoted point to a removal of both the Israelis and the Islamic peoples from the Holy Land. Seems like a good way of resolving the continuous drama and disaster there.

 

[tailgator]

Would posters make some effort to keep to the thread subject.

Prophesies I quoted point to a removal of both the Israelis and the Islamic peoples from the Holy Land. Seems like a good way of resolving the continuous drama and disaster there.

That is what I have been talking about about.The day of the Lord.

 

[ewq1938]

Don't you believe that we are adopted? If so... then we all are Israel... even if we didn't start out that way.

The mention of people coming from 12 specific tribes means those 144k are blood related to Israel. It is not speaking of any form of spiritual or true Israel in the NT sense.

 

[Stash]

At the seven trumpet , we will all be in spiritual bodies in the blink of an eye
The good bad and the ugly in the millennium

Every single human being on the planet will be going to the woodshed

That’s the millennium

 

[ewq1938]

I didn't say the world was the promised land.
I am specifically talking about the land promised to Abrahams seed.The millennium kingdom.

There was no promise to them regarding the NT/Revelation 20 Millennium. That kingdom is global, and is ruled by immortal saints, ruling over mortal sinners.

 

[ewq1938]

At the seven trumpet , we will all be in spiritual bodies in the blink of an eye
The good bad and the ugly in the millennium

The bad are never going to receive the spiritual body.

 

[tailgator]

There was no promise to them regarding the NT/Revelation 20 Millennium. That kingdom is global, and is ruled by immortal saints, ruling over mortal sinners.

Actually .Those immortal saints ruling in the lords land is Israel

Isaiah 14:2
And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.


If you knew who the beast is by name,then you shouldn't have any problem understanding it is Israel that is reigning with Christ (king of Israel)in revelation 20.

 

[Wick Stick]

The mention of people coming from 12 specific tribes means those 144k are blood related to Israel. It is not speaking of any form of spiritual or true Israel in the NT sense.

Why not?

Also, ever notice that the list of tribes is a little strange? Dan and Ephraim are missing, and Joseph is listed alongside the half-tribe Manasseh.

 

[ewq1938]

Actually .Those immortal saints ruling in the lords land is Israel

Isaiah 14:2
And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.


If you knew who the beast is by name,then you shouldn't have any problem understanding it is Israel that is reigning with Christ (king of Israel)in revelation 20.

That verse is not speaking of the Millennium mentioned in Rev 20. Only saved Christians will be made immortal and be the ones ruling over the unsaved nations.

 

[tailgator]

That verse is not speaking of the Millennium mentioned in Rev 20. Only saved Christians will be made immortal and be the ones ruling over the unsaved nations.

False
It is about the Lords land.
The Lord recieves his land at the sound of the seventh Trump.When the beast is destroyed.
Then that land is given to the saints of God .It is an everylasting kingdom that will never be destroyed.


Isaiah 14:2
And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

 

[ewq1938]

Why not?

Because spiritual Israel does not have the tribes. That only belongs to physical Israel. The 144k follow Christ meaning they are all Christians, and on the physical level they are Israelites of the old physical order as well.

Also, ever notice that the list of tribes is a little strange? Dan and Ephraim are missing, and Joseph is listed alongside the half-tribe Manasseh.

God made some changes so there are some new tribes and some not used to choose 12k from. It's not really any stranger than anything else in scripture.

 

[ewq1938]

False
It is about the Lords land.
The Lord recieves his land at the sound of the seventh Trump.When the beast is destroyed.
Then that land is given to the saints of God .It is an everylasting kingdom that will never be destroyed.


Isaiah 14:2
And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

No, this is not about the future Millennium at all. The nations ruled over in Rev 20 are not captives, but are cared for like how a shepherd cares for his sheep.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev_2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


RULE

G4165
poimaino
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

G4165
poimaino
Thayer Definition:
1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
1a) to rule, govern
1a1) of rulers
1a2) to furnish pasture for food
1a3) to nourish
1a4) to cherish one’s body, to serve the body
1a5) to supply the requisites for the soul’s need
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4166
Citing in TDNT: 6:485, 901

 

[tailgator]

No, this is not about the future Millennium at all. The nations ruled over in Rev 20 are not captives, but are cared for like how a shepherd cares for his sheep.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev_2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


RULE

G4165
poimaino
poy-mah'ee-no
From G4166; to tend as a shepherd (or figuratively superviser): - feed (cattle), rule.
Total KJV occurrences: 11

G4165
poimaino
Thayer Definition:
1) to feed, to tend a flock, keep sheep
1a) to rule, govern
1a1) of rulers
1a2) to furnish pasture for food
1a3) to nourish
1a4) to cherish one’s body, to serve the body
1a5) to supply the requisites for the soul’s need
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4166
Citing in TDNT: 6:485, 901

To rule means to reign.
Israel will reign over the nations in the Lords land.

Do you even understand Israel is the son of God?
His firstborn.




Word: DCX

Pronounce: raw-daw'

Strong: H7287

Orig: a primitive root; to tread down, i.e. subjugate; specifically, to crumble off:--(come to, make to) have dominion, prevail against, reign, (bear, make to) rule,(-r, over), take.

Use: TWOT-2121,2122 Verb

Grk Strong: G757 G758 G1377 G1807 G1825 G1839 G1988 G2609 G2634 G2716 G2961 G3961

1. 1) to rule, have dominion, dominate, tread down1a) (Qal) to have dominion, rule, subjugate1b) (Hiphil) to cause to dominate2) to scrape out2a) (Qal) to scrape, scrape out

 

[ewq1938]

To rule means to reign.

And running is like walking really fast.

 

[Wick Stick]

Because spiritual Israel does not have the tribes. That only belongs to physical Israel.

I don't remember it saying that in my Bible.

God made some changes so there are some new tribes and some not used to choose 12k from. It's not really any stranger than anything else in scripture.

If He made those changes, why not change it to include the Gentiles who were adopted? I DO remember it saying something like that in my Bible.