Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[Bible Highlighter]

So you think that reading is the only way to "hear" God. How many Christians are illiterate worldwide? In Biblical times, most of the population (by far) were illiterate, yet they experienced God. Read the New Testament and tell me how many people became believers by reading their Bibles.

God has spoken to me personally, therefore He does still speak today outside of the Bible.. You are placing an over emphasis on reading the Bible and less emphasis on the experiences of God. That is very, very tragic!

We are living in the last days and the belief that one’s experiences, or that God is talking to them is on the rise. It’s looney bin central with people either rolling on the ground and or screaming or claiming they seen Jesus in a vision, etcetera. See, any person can claim God is talking to them. That does not mean God is talking to them. Jim Jones no doubt convinced his followers that he was of God and yet he got them to take cyanide willingly. Also, how does one truly know they are talking to God? Therein lies the problem. Paul warned about how there were those who preached another Jesus. How would you know it was another Jesus unless you had a Bible to confirm it was a false Jesus? That is why I have very little patience or tolerance for those who want to run off into the corn fields to seek out God’s voice. I will take my Bible over some nut claiming extra biblical nonsense any day of the week. Extra biblical revelation is how cults are formed.

As for your claim of the literacy level in biblical times:

Well, I think that is a study for another time. To say one way or the other without any heavy research is to take pot shot guess at best.
Paul told Timothy that he had known the Holy Scriptures since he was a child.
Jews were to train up their children in the Word of God according to Scripture.
The Ethiopian eunuch appeared to have been able to read from Isaiah.

Well, even if it was a worldwide problem, Jesus said, “…For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.” (Luke 12:48).

But God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
God does not exist in the past but He exists today with His people.

Most of the world today is literate.

Just look at this map here:

Literacy Rate by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

So most of the world is without excuse in not reading and studying the Bible to know God.
To say so otherwise means you just glossed over the verses I provided in my post #297.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

True. And the behavior reiterates scripture.
1 Corinthians 2.

We witness natural minds that cannot understand the things of God. Certainly not the gateway to God's message that is found in the Bible.

They don't know what Idolatry is. Claiming we idolize scripture is just another dig against Christians, our faith, and of course God.

You know, that which they first insist isn't there?

God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise.
The idea that they have to be born again by hearing the words of the Bible, and or that they have to draw close to God through studying the God’s Word is foolishness to them. Yet, this is what the Bible teaches and they of course will mock, misinterpret, etcetera.

All we can do is pray for them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

True. And the behavior reiterates scripture.
1 Corinthians 2.

We witness natural minds that cannot understand the things of God. Certainly not the gateway to God's message that is found in the Bible.

They don't know what Idolatry is. Claiming we idolize scripture is just another dig against Christians, our faith, and of course God.

You know, that which they first insist isn't there?

If you are interested, a poster named “Swordsman1” on another Christian forum made some really great points on this topic here, here, and here.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I will take my Bible over some nut claiming extra biblical nonsense any day of the week.

Amen! Probably why God Protects us from such nonsense when we obey Him with our
thinking [The 'Mind Of Christ' in us]?:

"And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to
myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us

not to think above That Which Is Written,​

that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."
(1 Corinthians 4:6 KJV)

 

[ButterflyJones]

If you are interested, a poster named “Swordsman1” on another Christian forum made some really great points on this topic here, here, and here.

Thank you for the links. I remember swordsman when they used other names in that and other forums.

When they claim there is no scripture that says God speaks to us through our thoughts, they're wrong. Thinking God speaks to us in only 2 ways, one being a book highly influenced by man yet still able to disseminate God's thoughts if we let his Holy Spirit lead our understanding, they're wrong again.

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6. God can speak through our thoughts. Amos 4:13 says 
that God makes known His ways to us through our thoughts. In Matthew 1:19–21, while Joseph thought about things, God spoke to him. We need to be careful here because not every thought in our minds comes from the Lord. Thoughts can also be placed in our minds from the Devil. And we can simply think up things on our own. So every time we get a thought, we need to judge if it is from God. Does it align with Scripture? Does it in any way contradict the character of God?

 

[Jim B]

We are living in the last days and the belief that one’s experiences, or that God is talking to them is on the rise. It’s looney bin central with people either rolling on the ground and or screaming or claiming they seen Jesus in a vision, etcetera. See, any person can claim God is talking to them. That does not mean God is talking to them. Jim Jones no doubt convinced his followers that he was of God and yet he got them to take cyanide willingly. Also, how does one truly know they are talking to God? Therein lies the problem. Paul warned about how there were those who preached another Jesus. How would you know it was another Jesus unless you had a Bible to confirm it was a false Jesus? That is why I have very little patience or tolerance for those who want to run off into the corn fields to seek out God’s voice. I will take my Bible over some nut claiming extra biblical nonsense any day of the week. Extra biblical revelation is how cults are formed.

As for your claim of the literacy level in biblical times:

Well, I think that is a study for another time. To say one way or the other without any heavy research is to take pot shot guess at best.
Paul told Timothy that he had known the Holy Scriptures since he was a child.
Jews were to train up their children in the Word of God according to Scripture.
The Ethiopian eunuch appeared to have been able to read from Isaiah.

Well, even if it was a worldwide problem, Jesus said, “…For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.” (Luke 12:48).

But God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
God does not exist in the past but He exists today with His people.

Most of the world today is literate.

Just look at this map here:

Literacy Rate by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

So most of the world is without excuse in not reading and studying the Bible to know God.
To say so otherwise means you just glossed over the verses I provided in my post #297.

Clearly you discount having a personal relationship with God. You think that it comes from a book. One verse proves you wrong: "Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word of Christ." Romans 10:17

Jim Jones? LOL!!! Taking a single example of a cult leader to prove a point is absurd!

Another absurd example example is Paul telling Timothy that he had known the Holy Scriptures since he was a child. It did him absolutely no good until he met Jesus personally! If you witnessed that event you would probably discount it!

Jews were to train up their children in the Word of God according to Scripture, but when the Savior arrived, their extensive "book learning" caused them to miss Him!

It truly saddens me that you think that the only way one can experience God is through reading. TRAGIC!

The way to know God is to have a personal relationship with Him.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

every time we get a thought, we need to judge if it is from God. Does it align with Scripture? Does it in any way contradict the character of God?

So, that's why God's Word Of Truth Teaches?:

2Co_10:5 KJV "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the
knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;"

 

[Jim B]

God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise.
The idea that they have to be born again by hearing the words of the Bible, and or that they have to draw close to God through studying the God’s Word is foolishness to them. Yet, this is what the Bible teaches and they of course will mock, misinterpret, etcetera.

All we can do is pray for them.

"... hearing the words"? I thought it's all tied in with reading the Bible. So you're contradicting yourself!

 

[ButterflyJones]

God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise.
The idea that they have to be born again by hearing the words of the Bible, and or that they have to draw close to God through studying the God’s Word is foolishness to them. Yet, this is what the Bible teaches and they of course will mock, misinterpret, etcetera.

All we can do is pray for them.

I can say I don't pray for open enemies of God. God calls whom he will to his grace . All others face judgement.

God knows who are sincere of heart. Who are poser wolves posting as sheep, and who are Satanists who enjoy disrespecting what the faithful hold dear.

When God knows that too, I don't pray he changes their heart. If he intends this he shall. God is sovereign.And has dominion over all. Because all operates as he intends and wills.

Rather,what I think those fallen ones serve to the community is the opportunity to witness the enemy of God has his faithful too.
And that the battle, the duality of nature and creation , occurs in this microcosm for me reiterates proof of God using all things to reach and teach his people, church.

There is no threat. Only opportunity

 

[ButterflyJones]

So, that's why God's Word Of Truth Teaches?:

2Co_10:5 KJV "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the
knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;"

Write the author of the Crosswalk article and inquire. I would not speak to their thoughts on such a reference as that what supports their thought

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thank you for the links. I remember swordsman when they used other names in that and other forums.

When they claim there is no scripture that says God speaks to us through our thoughts, they're wrong. Thinking God speaks to us in only 2 ways, one being a book highly influenced by man yet still able to disseminate God's thoughts if we let his Holy Spirit lead our understanding, they're wrong again.

Bible Study - Encouraging Faith

Get guidance for your personal Bible study time. Inspirational and popular trending articles focused on making Bible study life-changing.

www.crosswalk.com

6. God can speak through our thoughts. Amos 4:13 says 
that God makes known His ways to us through our thoughts. In Matthew 1:19–21, while Joseph thought about things, God spoke to him. We need to be careful here because not every thought in our minds comes from the Lord. Thoughts can also be placed in our minds from the Devil. And we can simply think up things on our own. So every time we get a thought, we need to judge if it is from God. Does it align with Scripture? Does it in any way contradict the character of God?

Amos 4:13 does not say that God speaks to us through our thoughts. They are misquoting that verse to justify something that is not there. Matthew 1:19-21 is not a case for God speaking to us through our thoughts, either. God can know our thoughts but that is not the same thing as God speaking to us through our thoughts.

Isaiah 55:7 says,
”Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”

Isaiah 55:8 says,
”For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Clearly you discount having a personal relationship with God. You think that it comes from a book. One verse proves you wrong: "Consequently faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the preached word of Christ." Romans 10:17

This is from a false Modern Translation.
Actually, the full revelation of the gospel that saves was revealed to us by the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

It just so happens that in context that faith comes by the hearing of the gospel, but the gospel is in the form of words and not some mystical message or some heavenly voice talking to you. Neither is this verse teaching that the preached word of Christ is what saves because the prophets and apostles also spoke of Christ. It was not Jesus actually preaching that saves us. It’s the words of God or Scripture when we hear the good news message about Christ (As found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). You would not know about this message without the Bible.

Jim Jones? LOL!!! Taking a single example of a cult leader to prove a point is absurd!

Is that really your reply?
Is that really supposed to convince me by such a childish remark?
Saying something is absurd does not undo my point.
Please tell me how or why Jim Jones is different than some other Christian claiming God is talking to them?
How would I really know the difference between these two men?
Surely the Bible is the standard and not some guy in the crowd claiming God is talking to him.

Another absurd example example is Paul telling Timothy that he had known the Holy Scriptures since he was a child. It did him absolutely no good until he met Jesus personally! If you witnessed that event you would probably discount it!

Okay. It’s not Christian like to attack me personally. By attacking me, it only making matters worse for you.
Besides, you’re missing the point of the verse. The Scriptures made Timothy WISE UNTO salvation. So it was not just some Jesus encounter alone without the Scriptures. Please read the verse again.

Jews were to train up their children in the Word of God according to Scripture, but when the Savior arrived, their extensive "book learning" caused them to miss Him!

I hear this all the time and it is not true. It’s like a lie that the church world today feeds themselves.
In reality, the real reason why the Jews missed Jesus was not because they studied the Scriptures, but because… THEY DID NOT OBEY God’s Word (the Scriptures). Jesus labeled them as hypocrites. They would say one thing and do another. They appeared to be holy in front of others, but they were dead inside towards God. They loved the praises of men, more than they loved the praise of God (John 12:43).

It truly saddens me that you think that the only way one can experience God is through reading. TRAGIC!

The way to know God is to have a personal relationship with Him.

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
That’s how we truly know if we have a relationship with the Lord Jesus or not.
If we are not keeping His commandments, we are a liar, and the truth is not in us (See: 1 John 2:4).
Commands are changed in Modern bibles and so this obviously makes one’s relationship with the Lord as being problematic.
For example: The true command of 2 Timothy 2:15 does not exist in most Modern bibles. We are to study to shew ourselves approved unto God. But God’s people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. They say it is not about a book, but it is a relationship. This just shows how little they know their own Bible (Which is how we have faith). Faith is the Bible. If one is not following the Bible, and they are just following their own thoughts (with them claiming they are from God). By such ramblings, there is a good chance they are violating Scripture, and if so, they are just following themselves and not God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

People today need to realize that we are not apostles. So to claim we can have the same exact experiences as the apostles is a big pill to swallow. Granted, I am not saying there is not a small chance God could talking to us outside of the Bible, but there is the danger that one could be the next cult leader if they are claiming their words (outside the Bible) are from God. There are tons of cults today who claim God gave them a revelation. So I would rather stick with the Bible, and not some vision, or new revelation, or some claim that some strange guy is claiming that God is talking to him. They could even make miraculous predications. But I am sticking with the Bible. God’s Word is my rock solid foundation. I cannot go wrong by trusting the Bible to build my relationship with Jesus Christ. But some strange guy who claims God is talking to him? Yeah, no thanks. You can eat that garbage if you like. There are tons of false visions and lots of false Christ’s out there today. Take for example the book: Heaven is for Real. Clearly this book is preaching another Jesus if you have any kind of bible knowledge. But if you make mindless claims like…. “Oh yeah, it’s relationship with Jesus and not about a book.” Well, you are in the majority of the pop Christian culture. You also do not know the Bible or His Word (Which is an extremely dangerous place to be spiritually).

 

[ButterflyJones]

Amos 4:13 does not say that God speaks to us through our thoughts. They are misquoting that verse to justify something that is not there. Matthew 1:19-21 is not a case for God speaking to us through our thoughts, either. God can know our thoughts but that is not the same thing as God speaking to us through our thoughts.

Isaiah 55:7 says,
”Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”

Isaiah 55:8 says,
”For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

When we believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, I think any argument that insists God does not speak to us in our mind or thought, is invalid.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

When we believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, I think any argument that insists God does not speak to us in our mind or thought, is invalid.

I believe God speaks to us through His Word. I believe it is possible God can even use life situations, but again… this would involve the glorification of His Word in some way. No Word of God involved and there is a good chance it may not be of God. I say this because of the many cults that are out there, and because of those who have a vision every week, or who roll on the ground and bark like dogs and claim it is of God. In other words, whatever communication that is not clearly described in His Word is suspect at best. We have a Bible that has plenty of instructions given to us. Why would we need any further instructions? For once a person opens the door to God talking to them, they open up Pandora’s box. Yeah, but what about the apostle Paul? Well, we are not apostles. That as the early church. The saints are built upon the foundation of the prophets and apostles.

Those who claimed to do the miraculous in Christ’s name did not make it into the Kingdom according to Matthew 7:22-23. Jesus told them to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. How would we know what iniquity is unless we read our Bible? For one’s person’s version of iniquity is different from another if they just go off their own thoughts or subjective feelings or their thinking that God is talking to them with no bible.

For example: God would never tell you to do anything that would uplift yourself and not Him. God would never tell you anything that would paint a false misrepresentation of Him. God would never do anything that would be in violation of His Word. The safer play is to follow what His Word says and not some feeling you have, or some communication in your mind you think is from God. Even dreams you think are from God can be dangerous. Granted, I am not saying that God cannot give us dreams but we really cannot know if it is from God or not until we face God and ask Him. What we can trust is God’s Word. The Bible will not let you down. But your thoughts will. Your dreams might. What you think is God talking to you may turn out to be against what God’s Word teaches (If you study His Word long enough to truly discover such a truth). See. Life is short and then you’re gone. Would you rather trust in a more sure word of prophecy (like the Bible) or something else? I would not want to be led astray by anything. I don’t want to hear voices in my head. I don’t want visions or dreams. I don’t want to seek out something that runs contrary to God’s Word. My soul is too important to play games with. My faith does not rest in my own limited perceptions of reality. My faith rests in the Word of God (the Bible). I know God’s good book will not steer me wrong.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

"... hearing the words"? I thought it's all tied in with reading the Bible. So you're contradicting yourself!

You’re not getting it. For us believers today: Romans 10:17 is about hearing the words of the Bible. Back in the early church it would have been a combination of both the written Word (Scripture), and the spoken Word of God (like from the apostles). But seeing there are no more apostles anymore, and we only have the Bible (Scripture), then we are to hear the words of the Bible involving the gospel message (of which saves - See again 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Romans 10 is about obeying the gospel (i.e. Meaning, we are to believe the gospel message as found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), which then leads to calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. In context, Romans 10 is written to the unbelieving Israelite in mind. They are to believe the gospel, and seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ. The Israelite today can only know about this by hearing the word of God (the Bible) In some form or another.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I can say I don't pray for open enemies of God.

Jesus says,
“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;” (Matthew 5:44).

God calls whom he will to his grace . All others face judgement.

God knows who are sincere of heart. Who are poser wolves posting as sheep, and who are Satanists who enjoy disrespecting what the faithful hold dear.

When God knows that too, I don't pray he changes their heart. If he intends this he shall. God is sovereign.And has dominion over all. Because all operates as he intends and wills.

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” (2 Peter 3:9).

“But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.” (Romans 10:21).

“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” (2 Thessalonians 2:10).

 

[Jim B]

Amos 4:13 does not say that God speaks to us through our thoughts. They are misquoting that verse to justify something that is not there. Matthew 1:19-21 is not a case for God speaking to us through our thoughts, either. God can know our thoughts but that is not the same thing as God speaking to us through our thoughts.

Isaiah 55:7 says,
”Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.”

Isaiah 55:8 says,
”For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

Since you lack the faith that God can speak to people through our thoughts then you prevent Him from doing so. That is sad, as God speaks to me and many others through our thoughts.

 

[Jim B]

You’re not getting it. For us believers today: Romans 10:17 is about hearing the words of the Bible. Back in the early church it would have been a combination of both the written Word (Scripture), and the spoken Word of God (like from the apostles). But seeing there are no more apostles anymore, and we only have the Bible (Scripture), then we are to hear the words of the Bible involving the gospel message (of which saves - See again 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Romans 10 is about obeying the gospel (i.e. Meaning, we are to believe the gospel message as found in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), which then leads to calling upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. In context, Romans 10 is written to the unbelieving Israelite in mind. They are to believe the gospel, and seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ. The Israelite today can only know about this by hearing the word of God (the Bible) In some form or another.

Again, you're contradicting yourself. Read the post immediately above...

You think that everyone must have the same relationship with God and His written word as you, bu that is just ego-driven. True believers walk by faith; God communicates to them as He chooses.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Again, you're contradicting yourself. Read the post immediately above...

You think that everyone must have the same relationship with God and His written word as you, bu that is just ego-driven. True believers walk by faith; God communicates to them as He chooses.

Having the same experience as BH would also necessarily entail never hearing God speak.
The Bible is the inspired word of God. That in itself demonstrates I think that @Bible Highlighter has no case when they insist there is no Biblical support for God speaking to people.

Besides the entire OT proving otherwise. And God himself as Jesus continuing to do so in his earthly ministry.