Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[ButterflyJones]

Agreed. Sacred cows. Ex 32.

Lately, I've become aware of a lot of IDOLATRY among Christians. Knowledge, in general, has been made into an IDOL. In particular, is knowledge of the Bible, and even a particular translation. In addition, people make IDOL's of their doctrines.

On this forum, 2 such doctrines are OSAS and the doctrine that shall not be discussed. Policy - Topics That Can No-Longer Be Discussed at CyB

I think there is a lack of understanding as to what Idolatry actually is, or entails.

Certainly atheists claiming Christians worship the Bible is an example of that aforementioned failure in understanding.
As is holding respect for a particular doctrine not at Allan example of idolatry.

What happens in discussions like those initiated by atheists waging a personal grudge against the faith and the faithful when they make false accusations like those mentioned , if the Christians present watch how the atheists involved "at-a-boy" one another, is absolute contempt for God And disrespect for what gives meaning to every Christians life here.


It isn't atheism. I know atheists. They care not one bit about what we believe. And they certainly don't troll religious communities. I know because I've asked.

Rather, it's Satanism.
God's adversary. Adversaries.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Maybe. Might. Double speculation?

This translation makes clear what is being referred to is not a WHO but a WHAT. (CEV) You must stop doing anything immoral or evil. Instead be humble and accept the message planted in you to save you. And that WHAT refers to the oral tradition of the time, passing the Gospel along orally, not to the Bible, which did not exist for centuries to come.

Not double speculation at all .
I realize you don't understand.



It will always be what you need to believe. Even when you're wrong.

 

[Wrangler]

think there is a lack of understanding as to what Idolatry actually is, or entails.

Both are true. There is rampant IDOLATRY in Christianity today AND Christian’s don’t handle well when confronted with it, especially by atheists.

It isn't atheism. I know atheists. They care not one bit about what we believe. And they certainly don't troll religious communities. I know because I've asked.

Rather, it's Satanism.

I concede it could be satanism. However, I prefer to give the atheist the benefit of the doubt; that they are here because of their own doubt and want iron to sharpen iron; that they feel the pull of the Holy Spirit and are grappling with their worldly philosophies, trying to reconcile what cannot be reconciled.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Both are true. There is rampant IDOLATRY in Christianity today AND Christian’s don’t handle well when confronted with it, especially by atheists.


I concede it could be satanism. However, I prefer to give the atheist the benefit of the doubt; that they are here because of their own doubt and want iron to sharpen iron; that they feel the pull of the Holy Spirit and are grappling with their worldly philosophies, trying to reconcile what cannot be reconciled.

As I said. Lack of understanding what Idolatry is causes the problem here.

Christians aren't idolaters of the Bible or doctrines. That doesn't change merely because the false claim is repeatedly made.


Atheists that feel drawn by Holy Spirit to seek God's teachings do not condemn, mock, or ridicule the teachings.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As I said. Lack of understanding what Idolatry is causes the problem here.

Christians aren't idolaters of the Bible or doctrines. That doesn't change merely because the false claim is repeatedly made.


Atheists that feel drawn by Holy Spirit to seek God's teachings do not condemn, mock, or ridicule the teachings.

The problem is that there are Christians who actually place more emphasis on their experiences, thoughts, feelings, and imaginations in that God is talking to them in some way and yet they attack or mock the Bible and call true Christians who revere the Word as being a Bibliolater. Yet, the true believer is not really bowing down to the Bible as if it was the entirety of God and therefore it is a false accusation. Most Christians believe God is a spirit being and that the Bible is merely the expressed thoughts and or mind of God towards man. Lately I have noticed this trend among Christians that I know personally. They say that God talks to them and or that He still speaks today outside of the Bible. They place an over emphasis on the experiences of God and less emphasis and or importance on the written Word. It is extremely disturbing and it merely shows the last days we are living in. AllI can do is pray for them. Only the LORD can reveal such a truth to them by His Word if they are open to such a thing.

 

[St. SteVen]

I too have asked tough questions and have been disappointed in the shallowness of the response or the questions just being ignored because they are uncomfortable in facing their sacred cows being slaughtered.

Agreed, of course.
I think the questions are more important than the answers. Even Jesus understood this.

Luke 10:26 NIV
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

 

[Wrangler]

Christians aren't idolaters of the Bible or doctrines.

Wrong. Christians most certainly are idolaters of the Bible and their doctrines.

Repeatedly denying it does not make it not so.

 

[Wrangler]

I think the questions are more important than the answers. Even Jesus understood this.

Luke 10:26 NIV
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

Hmmm. I don't think that is quite right.

Philosophy and science ask questions. Christianity provides answers.

Regarding what Jesus said at Luke 10:26. Some translations end with the question, how do you understand it. Jesus was a rabbi, a teacher. Teaches teach answers, not just questions. The law is not open ended. It is buttoned down with proper understanding of the heart of God, his intent in revealing the law to us.

Of course, we humans never stop learning, can and do debate everything. Some posters suppose copying and pasting is a substitution for conversation in this online community.

One thing I've learned about the Art of Persuasion and Influence is "a mind forced to change his mind is of the same opinion still." For whatever reason, people have a block in accepting certain things, myself included. One example is a friend debating with his brother who denied that a man put in a jail cell is an example of the State dictating what he does with his body. I told my friend that all one can do is bring someone to the point of reasoning. You cannot make them think and slay their own sacred cows. You just have to leave it there. Amicably end the conversation which has run its course.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Christians most certainly are idolaters of the Bible and their doctrines.

The holy scriptures have been preserved all these centuries for reason!

They contain vital doctrines for man’s temporal and Spiritual well being in avoiding danger and harm!

To call it idolatry to love them and protect them is absolute absurdity! Especially when the author Himself commands us to hold them dear and keep them!

What’s wrong with you?!

 

[Wrangler]

The holy scriptures have been preserved all these centuries for reason!

Yea, to read and understand, not to turn it into an IDOL.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Wrong. Christians most certainly are idolaters of the Bible and their doctrines.

Repeatedly denying it does not make it not so.

You don't get it. And I see this.

Worship of God and faith and love of his word as we are led to discern them by his Holy Spirit is live and worship of God.

Not the Bible. That is what you don't understand. And only God can change your mind.

While your repeating what I said to the adverse is further proof of that disconnect.
Go ahead now and post the adverse of that .

 

[ButterflyJones]

The problem is that there are Christians who actually place more emphasis on their experiences, thoughts, feelings, and imaginations in that God is talking to them in some way and yet they attack or mock the Bible and call true Christians who revere the Word as being a Bibliolater. Yet, the true believer is not really bowing down to the Bible as if it was the entirety of God and therefore it is a false accusation. Most Christians believe God is a spirit being and that the Bible is merely the expressed thoughts and or mind of God towards man. Lately I have noticed this trend among Christians that I know personally. They say that God talks to them and or that He still speaks today outside of the Bible. They place an over emphasis on the experiences of God and less emphasis and or importance on the written Word. It is extremely disturbing and it merely shows the last days we are living in. AllI can do is pray for them. Only the LORD can reveal such a truth to them by His Word if they are open to such a thing.

True. And the behavior reiterates scripture.
1 Corinthians 2.

We witness natural minds that cannot understand the things of God. Certainly not the gateway to God's message that is found in the Bible.

They don't know what Idolatry is. Claiming we idolize scripture is just another dig against Christians, our faith, and of course God.

You know, that which they first insist isn't there?

 

[Wrangler]

Wrong. Christians most certainly are idolaters of the Bible and their doctrines.

Repeatedly denying it does not make it not so.

You don't get it.

I get it. You deny many Christians are Bible IDOLATORS. You’re not making an argument, just a denial.

 

[Jim B]

The problem is that there are Christians who actually place more emphasis on their experiences, thoughts, feelings, and imaginations in that God is talking to them in some way and yet they attack or mock the Bible and call true Christians who revere the Word as being a Bibliolater. Yet, the true believer is not really bowing down to the Bible as if it was the entirety of God and therefore it is a false accusation. Most Christians believe God is a spirit being and that the Bible is merely the expressed thoughts and or mind of God towards man. Lately I have noticed this trend among Christians that I know personally. They say that God talks to them and or that He still speaks today outside of the Bible. They place an over emphasis on the experiences of God and less emphasis and or importance on the written Word. It is extremely disturbing and it merely shows the last days we are living in. AllI can do is pray for them. Only the LORD can reveal such a truth to them by His Word if they are open to such a thing.

So you think that reading is the only way to "hear" God. How many Christians are illiterate worldwide? In Biblical times, most of the population (by far) were illiterate, yet they experienced God. Read the New Testament and tell me how many people became believers by reading their Bibles.

God has spoken to me personally, therefore He does still speak today outside of the Bible.. You are placing an over emphasis on reading the Bible and less emphasis on the experiences of God. That is very, very tragic!

 

[ButterflyJones]

I get it. You deny many Christians are Bible IDOLATORS. You’re not making an argument, just a denial.

I don't need to argue. I'm stating a fact.

What you also don't get is that the onus is on you and the OP author to prove your accusation that Christians idolize the Bible. And doctrine.

The onus isn't on the accused but rather the accusers.

You don't respect Christians have a preferred Bible version for study. You don't respect the God given teaching of Irrevocable Salvation by his grace .

That Christians do hold respect for those things isn't idolatry. Rather, it is something you prove again and again you don't understand.

Charging Christians idolize the Bible and doctrines when the accusers don't understand what Idolatry is or entails is not something to argue against.

It is impossible to argue knowledge be bestowed upon ignorance.Nor is it possible or be necessary to strive to convince Satanists of what Christians believe.

You have no point against the faithful here. Rather, you and those like you deserve our pity. That this nonsense in arguing against people who hold faith in what the atheist affirms doesn't exist at all is how you choose to waste your life.

I won't assist you further in that.

 

[Wrangler]

I don't need to argue. I'm stating a fact.

Oh. How can one verify the fact that Christian’s do not idolize the Bible or their doctrines?

 

[ChristisGod]

Wrong. Christians most certainly are idolaters of the Bible and their doctrines.

Repeatedly denying it does not make it not so.

Are you a Christian?
Are you an idolator ?
If not why not ?
What makes you a different Christian from the rest of us ?

 

[Wrangler]

Are you a Christian?
Are you an idolator ?
If not why not ?
What makes you a different Christian from the rest of us ?

Woah. Strawman. I never claimed I am unique. One way you know I am not an IDOLATOR is I don’t say things like, if you don’t read my translation or hold to my doctrine, you cannot be saved.

 

[Jim B]

It is wrong to worship a book. That is clearly what KJVOs do. They make up myths about a single translation, discover "1611" numerology, claim that it is a perfect translation, etc. It was the Bible for roughly 300 years but it is not a perfect translation -- there is no such thing! Translators have a set of sources to work with and must decide how to translate vocabulary, verb tenses, idioms, etc. from the source languages to the destination language. It is senselss to exalt a single translation as the perfect one. That is idolatry.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

It is wrong to worship a book. That is clearly what KJVOs do. They make up myths about a single translation

It is senselss to exalt a single translation as the perfect one. That is idolatry.