Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[St. SteVen]

LOL, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I suppose you lean toward the UR or I wouldn't be receiving this post.

In answer to the meaning of your Scripture verses in Matt. 25:31-46, if you read the context, you will see that Christ is addressing the Gentile nations, in other words, this is "the judgment of the nations.

This takes place at the Second Coming, as plainly seen in 25:31. Christ is judging the Gentile nations according to how they treated Israel in the "time of Jacob's Trouble." The Second Coming takes place as the anti-christ is destroying Israel, The Warrior King that Israel looked for at His first coming is now revealed. Christ saves Israel, this is the moment that Paul speaks of "and all of Israel will be saved."

The nations that Christ referred to as "I was hungry and you gave me no meat, thirsty and you gave me no drink," are the nations that did not help Israel, but joined with the anti-christ to destroy them.

So, you are claiming that the gentile nations will take their "inheritance", the "kingdom prepared" for them "since the creation of the world"?
Sounds like UR to me. - LOL

Matthew 25:34 NIV
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

 

[St. SteVen]

Isaiah 45:23

"I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Sounds to me the Lord will apply some pressure.

Define the sort of pressure that would result in a confession given "whole-heartedly, and without reservation"?
Crushed under a boot heel wouldn't have that result. Right?

 

[Charlie24]

So, you are claiming that the gentile nations will take their "inheritance", the "kingdom prepared" for them "since the creation of the world"?
Sounds like UR to me. - LOL

Matthew 25:34 NIV
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

The inheritance belongs to Israel, and always has. The New Covenant was made for Israel through Christ.

Paul tells us that the Gentiles have been grafted in that Covenant with Israel, and will also have an inheritance.

Paul refers to Israel as the "natural branches" and the Gentiles as the "grafted branches."

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Neither do I.
Just a read of the OT tells me the God there in the Tanakh is made in the image and likeness of man. A totally depraved genocidal psychotic one.

Either that or….the words are spirit and truth and aren’t meant to be viewed through a temporal and temporary lens of depravity…

 

[Charlie24]

Either that or….the words are spirit and truth and aren’t meant to be viewed through a lens of depravity…

Whatever you say is ok with me.

 

[St. SteVen]

The inheritance belongs to Israel, and always has. The New Covenant was made for Israel through Christ.

Paul tells us that the Gentiles have been grafted in that Covenant with Israel, and will also have an inheritance.

Paul refers to Israel as the "natural branches" and the Gentiles as the "grafted branches."

Okay.
But does your gospel account for the social services of the gentile nations leading to their salvation?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Are you claiming that the Rich Man was ALREADY in the Lake of Fire?
That may be an eschatological issue.

Gehenna, I personally think. The dump where trash was burned. Oddly, it seems to me to speak of a burning off of dross…

 

[St. SteVen]

Gehenna, I personally think. The dump where trash was burned. Oddly, it seems to me to speak of a burning off of dross…

I agree. That's a good way to look at it. Thanks.

Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.

 

[St. SteVen]

@Charlie24 Did I miss your response to this post from @Hillsage ?

No, it is your responsibility to show us in scripture the difference between the "lake of fire" and hell. And you might also enlighten us as to just why 'your' OMNISCIENT God was too stupid to remember that he created your 'eternal HELL fire' "for the devil and his messengers."

MAT 25:41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;

Personally, I find it ironic that 'Your' ALL KNOWING God apparently forgot to mention He really created it for the majority of all of His creation.

What is the difference between hell and the Lake of Fire?
Who was hell created for? Did God God forget? Can you remember? - LOL

 

[St. SteVen]

BJ, I'm not sure what this response means. But I'm assuming my 'admittedly' harsh comment does show the same frustration we have for the harsh accusations made against us. Accusations made by those who want to belittle us for believing in a more loving, merciful and forgiving GOD than the nominal apostate church came up with 200 years after Jesus and the apostles were long gone.

These folks will fight tooth and claw to preserve their precious hell.
Glad to see that you are willing to give them what they want. - LOL
(give 'em hell)

Note; MY OMNICIENT GOD did not make a stupid statement. He knew that He created HELL FIRE judgments for right here and for right now. The FIRE wasn't made to throw the devil and his angels in to. It was created as a tool for the devil and his messengers to attack us ALL in any area of our life that is in rebellion to his holiness. His fires will torture until they have accomplished the purpose for which God created His FIRE.

Wow. That's an incredible insight. Thanks!

 

[Charlie24]

@Charlie24 Did I miss your response to this post from @Hillsage ?

What is the difference between hell and the Lake of Fire?
Who was hell created for? Did God God forget? Can you remember? - LOL

No, didn't miss it. I have no response for that particular post.

Hell in the Hebrew refers to the place of the dead, a graveyard. When a person dies lost the physical body goes to the grave, the spirit of that person goes to Hell. In other words, Hell is the place of the spiritual dead. Hell is temporary, at the judgment they will be resurrected to receive the indestructible body. Then death and Hell are cast into the Lake of Fire.

Of course you firmly disagree, but the Lake of Fire has no end.

 

[St. SteVen]

No, didn't miss it. I have no response for that particular post.

Hell in the Hebrew refers to the place of the dead, a graveyard. When a person dies lost the physical body goes to the grave, the spirit of that person goes to Hell. In other words, Hell is the place of the spiritual dead. Hell is temporary, at the judgment they will be resurrected to receive the indestructible body. Then death and Hell are cast into the Lake of Fire.

Of course you firmly disagree, but the Lake of Fire has no end.

Thanks. I can see why.

There are lots of online articles about all the different names and places in the afterlife.

hell sheol hades gehenna tartarus at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[Hillsage]

You would be wrong in your supposing. It makes me literally nauseous when I think about men taking the mark or men being cast into the outer darkness. Almost every day of my life I hope and hope the outer darkness will only last a thousand years since it is a worse fate than the lake for a human.

We have been in the church we're presently in for over 30 years, along with a 10 year gap where God called us out. We've had 4 pastors in all those years, and every one of them knew my UR doctrinal position. I was more secretive as to who I shared my belief with, especially in those early years. When our founding pastor first found out my 'belief', we had been members for a few years. He called me in to his office 'to discuss' this 'false doctrine', which he had never even heard of before. I shared a really short explanation, just to test the waters. His incredulous 'first question' to me was this; "D how could you believe that everyone will eventually be saved.?...you have probably brought more people into this church since you've been here, than anyone else. Why would you even do that IF YOU BELIEVED they'd 'ALL get saved' anyway?" I told him; "You don't understand "Why?", because you don't understand this doctrine." And he just said; "Oh." And the meeting was over. He never asked ONE QUESTION to even try to be biblically informed concernng a Gospel that is better GOOD NEWS than the one he was 'taught' to believe.

 

[Hillsage]

Of course you firmly disagree, but the Lake of Fire has no end.

We try not to 'firmly disagree' with the truth. And in this case you're wrong again.

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

The only problem is your lack of understanding;
OUR God is consuming DEATH AND HELL and all else that can not exist in HIS KINGDOM COME when HIS WILL BE DONE. Our God is the ADIOS/eternal Lake of Fire. He is bringing all the dross out of ALL His creation saying BEHOLD I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW.

 

[Charlie24]

We try not to 'firmly disagree' with the truth. And in this case you're wrong again.

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.

The only problem is your lack of understanding;
OUR God is consuming DEATH AND HELL and all else that can not exist in HIS KINGDOM COME when HIS WILL BE DONE. Our God is the ADIOS/eternal Lake of Fire. He is bringing all the dross out of ALL His creation saying BEHOLD I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW.

You could clear up our understanding by simply showing us in Scripture where and how they get out of the Lake of Fire.

Rev. 20:15

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

They are plainly in the Lake of Fire, just plainly show us how they get out.

If you can't show us that, then don't you think you need to reconsider your position?

 

[Hillsage]

Isaiah 45:23

"I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Sounds to me the Lord will apply some pressure.

"some pressure".....YA THINK?

ISA 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

PHI 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

JOH 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (GR DRAG) him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be ALL taught of God. EVERY man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

IOW His counsel and will 'WILL BE DONE'. And if you think 'your will' or the will of any man, is a match for His will, then it's no wonder you don't see what we see. But thankfully one day YOU WILL too.

You just happen to believe HIS GOOD PLEASURE includes torturing people with NO ETERNAL PURPOSE. I like our God view better than the view from the apostate church of 400 AD.

 

[Hillsage]

You could clear up our understanding by simply showing us in Scripture where and how they get out of the Lake of Fire.

Rev. 20:15

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

They are plainly in the Lake of Fire, just plainly show us how they get out.

If you can't show us that, then don't you think you need to reconsider your position?

What is HELL doing in 'the lake of FIRE'? That's your question, you need to answer. We know that GOD is going to destroy both DEATH AND HELL there, you don't. Our GOD is a consuming fire so WHAT'S HE CONSUMING? from your theological OPINION?

 

[Wrangler]

I stand by my statement. Bibliolator is a term invented by men

All language terms are invented by men. The question in this thread is:

1. Do you recognize IDOLATRY, in general?
2. And do you recognize the IDOLATRY made of the Bible?

 

[ButterflyJones]

Either that or….the words are spirit and truth and aren’t meant to be viewed through a temporal and temporary lens of depravity…

Hosea 13:6 Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.

 

[St. SteVen]

The question in this thread is:

1. Do you recognize IDOLATRY, in general?
2. And do you recognize the IDOLATRY made of the Bible?

Well stated. That is the question.

Many balk at the idea that anyone that idolizes the Bible could be an idolator.
Probably because the Bible is anti-idolatry. Oh the irony. - LOL