Interesting, as that seems contradictory to me, why did she need a savior ,if she was born saved ?
Biblical Mary
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Interesting, as that seems contradictory to me, why did she need a savior ,if she was born saved ?
His cousin was rich, so I very much doubt that, he was the one who claimed His body
Mark 15:43 "Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus."
Joseph of Arimathaea was a believer in Jesus Christ. Joseph of Arimathaea was a very rich man, as recorded in historical documents, and a relative of our Lord Jesus Christ. Being "an honorable counsellor" as stated in Luke 23:50, meant Joseph of Arimethaea was a member of the Sanhedrin, but we know that "he had not consented to the counsel of deed of them." [Luke 23:51] This was also prophesied in Isaiah 53:9; "And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; because He had done no violence, either was any deceit in His mouth."
Jesus died with the sinners, yet He was buried with the rich. So who is this Joseph of Arimathaea that he would have the nerve to boldly stand before Pilate and demand the body of Jesus? Joseph of Arimathaea was the kinsman redeemer, the uncle of Jesus through his mother Mary's family. [the Harlein Manuscripts, 38-59 f, 193 b, in the British Museum] He was the kinsman that stood by, with the full knowledge of what had happened, and he waited with the women folk to claim the body of Christ at the appointed time.
It is well documented in Glastonbury, England about Joseph the tin man, who had tin mines there, brought a young lad there with him. That young lad was Jesus. Joseph was wealthy because of ownership in the mines that he had and his trade in tin. Joseph carried a Roman title [the Noblus Decurio], that allowed him to be the supplier to the Roman government with tin. There is a book about these activities of Joseph of Arimathaea, called "The Traditions of Glastonbury", by E. Raymond Capt, the Archaeologist.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Try to NOT wander OFF POINT ~
Stick to the FACTS ~
The FACT is:
* CONCEPTION IS: the act of:
Fertiliz-ING
Impregnat-ING
The FACT is:
* Your claims are clearly written in "your words"... post # 213 & post # 223
* QUOTE the Clear Biblical teaching:
* that: God performed the Act:
Of "Fertaliz-ING" Mary's Egg.
* that: God performed the Act:
OF "Impregnate-ING" Mary's Egg.
I said
Nor do we believe that we have to have an explicit statement in scripture that we can do something.
There are many things that we do that are not explicitly (or implicitly) permitted in the Bible - posting on the internet, driving a car, flying in an aeroplane, printing Bibles. or even that we can assemble the various scripture writings into one book called the Bible.
Your request is itself therefore unbiblical.
If you want to have a discussion about praying to the Saints in heaven then we can do so, but not on the basis you want.
As I said she was saved at the instance of her conception.
Do you think she was not a human person until she was born?
No I don't , and that's another subject but one I agree on . Okay as one of the Elect she was chosen before conception .
Will talk more
Taken
Well-Known Member
It is Biblical Truths redefined and taught with mans natural understanding and circular reasoning and centuries old false doctrine.
Begin with the Biblical Teaching:
* True Fact: Humans Reproduce Humans from Human Seeds fertilizing Human Seeds, and the Result IS;
* A Human Offspring IS Born IN SIN.
* True Fact: The Lord (Jesus) is WITHOUT Sin.
FOR Centuries: "Convince" the wondering, questioning;
"Illiterate" Listeners ...
(Who Can NOT read, Who Does NOT have Access to written Scripture... HOW....?)
HOW?
...can the Lord (JESUS), revealed being Born out of a Human Woman's Womb...
BE Himself BORN WITHOUT SIN?
WHEN
ALL Humans ARE Born in SIN, and REPRODUCE (from Human SEEDS)?
FACTS: (summarized in brief)
* Historical Jewish men, Jesus chose, (called Disciples), followed Jesus about, Listening, Learning FROM Jesus.
* Historical Other Jewish men, Of their own Freewill began "hearing, listening, learning, following Jesus' Teaching.
* Jesus' chosen Disciples were Appointed to be Apostles (teaching other Jewish men), what they had learned.
* Jesus expressly Appointed one man, (of mixed heritage/ Jew & Gentile) to expressly focus & teach Gentile men, (thus himself also an Apostle)
** Over a course of a "short" timeline...
~ Apostles - physically died.
~ Jews - stopped following, teaching, preaching Jesus' teaching.
~ Jews - reverted BACK to teaching, preaching, following Jewish Laws, Jewish Beliefs and Faith IN God, Rejecting Belief, Jesus was the Christ
~ THE GENTILES ~ WHO:
* Had been Following the Jewish Disciples, the Jewish Apostles....
~ WERE Receiving "appointments"...
From the Jewish Apostles...
"Appointments" of Titles...
Bishops, Deacons, Priests...
* TITLES, which revealed their "POSITION" of Authority, in the Newly being "FORMED"
"CHURCHES"...
* The GENTILES... having HAD received Titled Appointments over the newly established Churches
* As the Apostles died off
* THE GENTILES CONTINUED....with their TITLES, positions of Authority "governing" the newly formed "Churches".
ALMOST "immediately"...
THOSE "Gentile Leaders"...established A "TITLE" for ANY establishMENT, they constructed:
"Previously" (under Jewish Apostles leadership)....called "A" CHURCH...
...would be CALLED: (under Gentile leadership...)
called "The CATHOLIC CHURCH",
(Regardless of the physical location the building was Built)
* IN addition; (under Gentile leadership...)
Any person Becoming a "MEMBER" of any "so-called" "CATHOLIC CHURCH"... the individual would be "CALLED", himself, "A" Catholic.
AND THERE WAS THE MOMENT IN HISTORY...Gentile men beginning with GOOD intentions, OPENED A DOOR, "for successive appointed and titled church leaders"...
TO ESTABLISH...their OWN DOCTRINES, (outside of and beyond of Jesus' Doctrine).
And for Centuries...every Gentile "appointed, elected" "Catholic" Leader, of the "Catholic Church"....
HAS ADDED TO "THEIR CATHOLIC DOCTRINE" ...
THEN "TAUGHT" THEIR CATHOLIC DOCTRINE".... FOR Centuries..."BY Verbal teaching"...
(To the ignorant, illiterate, they having NO access to the Written word of God, to verify).
With "implication" AND "claims"...
Their Teaching...IS...."Jesus' Doctrine"...
Catholic Leadership, through the Centuries HAVE indoctrinated illiterate men WITH "Catholic False Doctrines.
MEN...Literate and Illiterate...begged the Question...to the SELF proclaimed..."CATHOLIC CHURCH"...
'Petitioning "THE CATHOLIC Leaders", to Respond...
* HOW can a Human Woman herself naturally born in Sin, of a Human mans SEED...
REPRODUCE an OFFSPRING that IS "WITHOUT SIN". [/QUOTE]
* Rather than, respond WITH AN HONEST Answer...
* They...First, Ignored the Request for a Response.
* They...Then, Called the Requesters derragatory Names.
(* Uh oh....unexpected surprise...Many Catholic Church members, began considering the question, begging a response from the Catholic Church "Leaders". )
* They...Then, Granted a meeting, between the Requesters and the Catholic Church "leaders".
* Meeting...
HOW, can a Human Woman herself naturally born in Sin, of a Human mans SEED, "reproduce" an Offspring that IS: "WITHOUT" SIN.
* [U Catholic "clerics" MADE UP Doctrine...[/U]
~ The Woman herself, WAS WITHOUT SIN
* Add in "quoting" a Scripture that has Nothing to do with the Woman herself, being without sin.
* Imply "quoting" a random scripture, verifies their teaching.
* Add in the "Name calling".
* Add in the "excommunication"
* END of "useless" meeting.
* Carry ON, preaching Catholic Doctrine, and the false Pretense the Teaching IS True.
Nothing different today...SAME teaching, (of those claiming to be Catholic Teachers...)
SAME "method"...
Claim...Mary was without sin.
Quote (or reference) Scripture... that says nothing to verify their claim.
Name Call...the Requestor.
Continue making Catholic Doctrinal Claims, Repeating, Repeating, Repeating, it IS Clearly IN Scripture... YET, NEVER REVEALING ONE SCRIPTURE THAT CLEARLY and ACTUALLY VERIFIES their claim.
They are already "captured", committed to a "mans philosophy".
Showing them, by QUOTING the Word of God;
IS as Jesus said;
Matt 13:
[13] Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
[14] And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
[15] For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
Repeating yourself, is irrelevant.
The basis I wanted was for you to answer a question, to expressly CLARIFY your standing.
Again, Plainly answer if you can.
DO YOU, rely on ANY Written, Published sources, "FOR UNDERSTANDING, the written and published SCRIPTURES"?
(Not in the least was I speaking of airplanes, the internet, driving cars)...
Taken
Well-Known Member
CLARIFY..."her conception".
Conception IS the Act of a human male seed fertalizing a human female egg.
"...her conception..."
MEANING WHAT EXACTLY? (According to your teaching)
* ??? THE instant, Mary's Dads seed, fertilized Mary's Mothers seed ?
THAT? "fertilized" seed (was SAVED from sin)?
* IS THAT your claim ?
* or something else?
[edit ; post fckd up :]
You are - what they call in German "a Schwärmer".
God deeply hates this type [phallic-] body we have .
Christ had to be born in this monster -- lit. in prophets -- to have our soul saved from it .
[the body of-] Maria maximum was the necessary vehicle -- as necessary evil .
End Of .
You are - what they call in German "a Schwärmer".
God deeply hates this type [phallic-] body we have .
Christ had to be born in this monster -- lit. in prophets -- to have our soul saved from it .
[the body of-] Maria maximum was the necessary vehicle -- as necessary evil .
End Of .
From the Concise Oxford English Dictionary
conception noun -the action of conceiving a child or of one being conceived
conceive verb - become pregnant with (a child).
Pregnant adj - (of a woman or female animal) having a child or young developing in the uterus.
Nothing about a male seed fertilising a human female egg.
Ever heard of parthenogenosis - noun Biology reproduction from an ovum without fertilization, especially in some invertebrates and lower plants.
According to Wikipedia it can happen naturally in some species except mammals.
Has been induced in some mammals (mice and rabbits for example).
Has happened in humans but rarely and usually with genetic defects.
There is also gynogenesis.
So there are other possibilities besides the one you give.
The basis for my understanding is the doctrines defined by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, who derive their authority from Christ, guaranteed by the Holy Spirit, drawing on both on Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Why did you ignore what I asked and give me a Dictionary view of "conception"?
I asked YOU to explain "WHAT YOU" said, according "YOUR words".
YOU said, in YOUR words..."Her conception"...
HER, "conception" was "HER" being brought into existance WHEN her dad fertilized her mothers egg.
"Her conception" could ALSO be; "Something inside of her coming into existence WHEN her own Egg is fertilized by a the seed of a man".
You were expressly asked to Clarify "WHICH" "her conception", YOU were talking about!
You claimed Mary was "SINLESS" from "her conception"....
Can't you clarify the Exact point in TIME in your own words...
Because that is WHAT you were asked...
where in the Bible does it say that?
Where does Satan accuse Christ of having a sinner for a mother?
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
• Luke 1:46-47 . . And Mary said: My soul glorifies The Lord and my spirit
rejoices in God my savior.
The average pew warmer's reflexive reaction correlates words like salvation
and savior with sin. However the Jews, to whom the word of God came,
portray saviors and salvation as providential in more applications than just
one; for example:
Neh 9:27
Luke 1:48-55
Luke 1:68-79
So I highly recommend that Christians avoid using Luke 1:46-47 as a proof
text that Jesus' mom was a sinner.
_
• Luke 1:46-47 . . And Mary said: My soul glorifies The Lord and my spirit
rejoices in God my savior.
The average pew warmer's reflexive reaction correlates words like salvation
and savior with sin. However the Jews, to whom the word of God came,
portray saviors and salvation as providential in more applications than just
one; for example:
Neh 9:27
Luke 1:48-55
Luke 1:68-79
So I highly recommend that Christians avoid using Luke 1:46-47 as a proof
text that Jesus' mom was a sinner.
_
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where in the Bible does Satan accuse Christ of not keeping his mother pure and sinless
Anything consecrated to God’s service has to be pure and holy
Mary is the woman in rev 12:1 the child is Jesus and Mary is his mother
Taken
Well-Known Member
That's all fine an well for you.
So what does your Catholic Church understanding tell you is your understanding of the exact point in time Mary became "Sinless"?
Was the Conception Act of Mary's dad fertalizing Mary's mother's egg....the point in time...Mary Became Sinless, yes or no?
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
the people of Israel. (Gen 37:9-11)
_
I think it's far more likely that the scene represents Jacob and his family, i.e.
the people of Israel. (Gen 37:9-11)
_
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