Bible alone

[atpollard]

So, he Dictionary of Christianity in America [Protestant], Oxford World Christian Encyclopedia, World Census of Religious Activities [U.N. Information Center, NY, 1989]), 1999 Encyclopedia of Christianity, (none of these sources are Catholic), are a bunch of liars???

As I already explained, it is less a “lie” than deceptive accounting.

Here is one example.
The Lutheran Church was a State Church in many countries. As a historic legacy to that history, the Lutheran Church incorporates in each country where it is present. All believe the same things and follow the same Book of Concord, but each Country is counted as a distinct denomination.

Is the Lutheran Church of Germany really a different denomination from the Lutheran Church of Switzerland because they are in different countries but share the same beliefs and history?

There are Protestant Denominations where each individual congregation is counted as a distinct “denomination” because of the legal structure of the organizational polity. That reality creates a count of “denominations” that is greatly exaggerated and accurate only according to “tax codes” but meaningless when speaking about denominational beliefs.

Such counts often include cults that no Protestant would consider a Protestant denomination.

THAT is why neither you nor they could or would name them, because it would expose the hypocrisy of your accounting and its anti-Protestant Propaganda agenda. Yes there are many Protestant Denominations. No there are not tens of thousands.

 

[Illuminator]

Myths about Indulgences

No, you are mistaken. All of our doctrines would need to be the same if PEOPLE were infallible (which they are not). The Holy Scriptures can be perfect and various imperfect people understand imperfectly. The RCC one sold indulgences, but no longer does so.

That LIE has been exposed several times; you are too proud to be corrected, so you keep repeating the same lie over and over again. Myths about Indulgences

Does the historic disagreement prove that the Catholic Church stopped being the Church at some point, or does it merely prove that some RCC members understood (scripture, tradition and the teachings) incorrectly at some point.

It proves that a few sinners abused indulgences and the Church corrected the problem 455 years ago and you guys can't stop complaining about it. History is a bad word around here because it proves the man made traditions of sola scriptura and sola fide were non-existent before the 16th century. Therefore early church history must be ignored or fabricated so it fits 16th century politics.

Unfortunately, we do not have infallible traditions or infallible teachers in any church …

Obviously.

read about Corinth in the infallible word of God. Therefore we must rely on the Written Word of God (Scripture) as our only objective source of infallible truth. That is what Sola Scriptura is all about.

And that is precisely why it fails. It's relative truth, not objective truth. The division sola scripturists are plagued with over baptism is an example of relativism. Some call it a mere ordinance, some say it is essential and some do not.

The “true church” is the Body of Christ. The ‘shibboleth’ of being “in Christ” is not a comprehensive examination on Christian Doctrines. Even the “Creeds” of the ecumenical councils of the early church, which claim to outline which doctrines one must believe to be a part of the “catholic” (universal) church are not the doctrines that Protestants generally disagree on.

Yea, like the Trinity.

Credobaptism vs Paedobaptism is not an “essential” in any ecumenical creed.

We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. From the Nicene Creed. That creed is supposed to be the acknowledged standard for this forum.

Scripture is silent on the subject of Sola Scriptura, as it is silent on many subjects (like driving a car or getting vaccinated). To argue something from what is NOT FOUND is called an “argument from silence” and is a Logical Fallacy.

SS itself is a logical fallacy.
If a person says, “There are no moral absolutes. That person is in logical trouble because that very statement is a moral absolute. He is saying it is a moral absolute that there are no moral absolutes. This system self-destructs. It cannot be true regardless how popular it is in America today. What he is really saying is…there are no moral absolutes, except this one.

“All generalizations are false”. This is a generalization in itself. It too self-destructs. What a person is really saying here is “all generalizations are false, except for this one.

"Only doctrines explicitly grounded in the teaching of the Bible are trustworthy.” This concept is self-destructive, and is not found in scripture. Unless you can find a scripture that explicitly says this, which you can’t, then you must re-phrase it to say: "Only doctrines explicitly grounded in the teaching of the Bible are trustworthy, except this one.”

You are in a logically invalid position here as is most of Protestantism.

Scripture can neither prove nor disprove Sola Scriptura. However it does not need to. Scripture does prove that Scripture is infallible. If anything else wishes to claim infallible authority alongside scripture, then the burden of proof falls to that thing claiming infallibility to PROVE that it belongs alongside scripture as the infallible authority of God.

Infallible authority is not "along side scripture", it is a gift from God to the Church that PREVENTS formally teaching error on matters of faith and morals. It does not mean that leaders don't sin, it does not mean that everything the pope says is infallible.

Tradition does not prove itself infallible and actually proves itself quite fallible.

Because you stubbornly resist the true meaning of Tradition. And you have your own relativistic view of the true meaning of infallibility.

Teachers do not prove themselves infallible and actually prove themselves quite fallible.

Any teacher can infallibly declare that Jesus is God. Another teacher can declare that Jesus was created, which is fallible. Infallibility is not a divine stamp of approval, it is a gift from God, a negative charism, not an add on. The Apostles and elders (Magisterium) infallibly reached a decision at the Council of Jerusalem because the Holy Spirit was there. They could not have reached any decision without the gift of infallibility. Was the Council of Jerusalem a mere historical event, or an ecclesial template for future councils? The Bible teaches that Jesus would be with us until the end of time. He didn't take a vacation from His beloved Church, and then come back in the 16th century.

• 

 

[Illuminator]

As I already explained, it is less a “lie” than deceptive accounting.

Here is one example.
The Lutheran Church was a State Church in many countries. As a historic legacy to that history, the Lutheran Church incorporates in each country where it is present. All believe the same things and follow the same Book of Concord, but each Country is counted as a distinct denomination.

Is the Lutheran Church of Germany really a different denomination from the Lutheran Church of Switzerland because they are in different countries but share the same beliefs and history?

There are Protestant Denominations where each individual congregation is counted as a distinct “denomination” because of the legal structure of the organizational polity. That reality creates a count of “denominations” that is greatly exaggerated and accurate only according to “tax codes” but meaningless when speaking about denominational beliefs.

Such counts often include cults that no Protestant would consider a Protestant denomination.

THAT is why neither you nor they could or would name them, because it would expose the hypocrisy of your accounting and its anti-Protestant Propaganda agenda. Yes there are many Protestant Denominations. No there are not tens of thousands.

So, he Dictionary of Christianity in America [Protestant], Oxford World Christian Encyclopedia, World Census of Religious Activities [U.N. Information Center, NY, 1989]), 1999 Encyclopedia of Christianity, (none of these sources are Catholic), all of them listing tens of thousands, is anti-Protestant Propaganda?

 

[Illuminator]

Here's a challenge for sola scripturists."Bible-alone" theology implies that the Magisterium and Tradition runs secondary to the Written Word. What I would like to see, using the "Bible alone" approach, with chapter and verse numbers, prove there is no real harmony between all three. Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium is the BIBLICAL rule of faith, all working together in harmony. One is not over the other. Again, prove, from the Bible alone, that the Magisterium and Tradition is less important than the Bible, for sound teaching. Whatever you find, don't use Ephesians 4:11-15. That one's mine.
A Quick Ten-Step Refutation of Sola Scriptura

 

[Illuminator]

Do Catholic babies fast 24-48 hours before baptism?
Why are you so selective in obeying Sacred Tradition?

The exact method for baptism is not in the Bible. Baptism is/was a Sacred Tradition before it dawned on someone to write it down!!! You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater!!! The oldest documentation we have on the exact method was written when John was still alive. But you don't accept that because the authors weren't Protestants. Do you at least accept the Nicene Creed? Or do you dismiss it as "extra-biblical"?

 

[n2thelight]

Bible Alone!

The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”

Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.

Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church.

Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.

Restricts the divine revelation and the word of God to scripture alone.

Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.

Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”

Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith comets by hearing not reading.


The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.

Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15


When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.


There is no list of scripture in scripture!

How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?


The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!

The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!


Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!

The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!

Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…

Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.

Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!

Matt 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ

1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?

Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?

Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?


The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!


The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16

What else may I ask do we need ?

 

[theefaith]

No factory produces Christians that would be the Holy Spirit using the scriptures God provided for us, which excludes the lies of the RCC. Un-like those stuck in idolatry (RC’s) Christians depend on God not the imaginations of evil men.

where does scripture say to read for yourself and make your own doctrine?

acts 8:31 he had scripture God sent by angel an apostle to teach him! (Matt 28:19)

we must be taught / instructed!
But that requires humility

Christians must be taught

We cannot read and decide doctrine for themselves according to scripture we must be “taught”!

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

1 thes 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.




One faith!

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

One heart / one mind

Acts 4:32
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul:

Romans 15:6
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Apostles received the truth from Christ and are inspired by the Holy Spirit and are commanded to teach all men! Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 Matt 28:19

Apostles have same mission, power, ministry, and authority as Christ!
Jn 20:21

 

[theefaith]

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

 

[theefaith]

The sacred deposit of faith

Thee faith once delivered to the saints! Jude 1:3

Without (revealed catholic) faith it is impossible to please God! Heb 11:6

The church possesses the truths revealed by Christ in person, not from scripture, Jude 1:3, 1 Tim 3:15
Matt 18:17

 

[theefaith]

Please explain how the church of Jesus Christ existed before the New Testament, exercised the authority of Christ and the church taught and believed before the New Testament with the same authority of Christ!

Church of the apostles has the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

The church wrote the New Testament, the church gathered the cannon of scripture, the church alone has authority to say what is, and what is not scripture and to give the authoritative interpretation or meaning of scripture!

 

[Jim B]

You miss the point.
2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
John prefers to speak face to face, his letter is not enough. This one verse destroys sola scriptura. John places greater value on oral preaching rather than his letter. It's both/and, not either/or.

Mark 13:31 – heaven and earth will pass away, but Jesus’ Word will not pass away. But Jesus never says anything about His Word being entirely committed to a book. Also, it took 400 years to compile the Bible, and another 1,000 years to invent the printing press. How was the Word of God communicated? Orally, by the bishops of the Church, with the guidance and protection of the Holy Spirit.

Mark 16:15 – Jesus commands the apostles to preach the Gospel to every creature. But Jesus did not want this preaching to stop after the apostles died, and yet the Bible was not compiled until four centuries later. The word of God was transferred orally.

Mark 3:14; 16:15 – Jesus commands the apostles to preach (not write) the gospel to the world. Jesus gives no commandment to the apostles to write, and gives them no indication that the oral apostolic word he commanded them to communicate would later die in the fourth century. If Jesus wanted Christianity to be limited to a book (which would be finalized four centuries later), wouldn’t He have said a word about it?

Luke 10:16 – He who hears you (not “who reads your writings”), hears me. The oral word passes from Jesus to the apostles to their successors by the gracious gifts of the Holy Spirit. This succession has been preserved in the Holy Catholic Church.

Luke 24:47 – Jesus explains that repentance and forgiveness of sins must be preached (not written) in Christ’s name to all nations. For Protestants to argue that the word of God is now limited to a book (subject to thousands of different interpretations) is to not only ignore Scripture, but introduce a radical theory about how God spreads His word which would have been unbelievable to the people at the time of Jesus.
read more here

AND I TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE LUTHER, AND UPON THIS LUTHER
I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH, 15 CENTURIES FROM NOW.
FOR UNTIL THEN, ALL THEOLOGIANS, SAINTS AND CHURCH LEADERS
WILL BE DEVOID OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AND WILL BE INCAPABLE
OF INTERPRETING MY WORD,
things Jesus never said​

You "tag" is absurd. You Catholics have so distorted Christianity and the meaning of the Bible that it is almost unknown in your flawed denomination.

It's propaganda of your clergy to believe them instead of the pure Word of God. From the (unScriptural) Pope on down, you've manufactured a false religion.

Martin Luther saved Christianity from the evils and perversions of the Catholic denomination.

 

[Jim B]

Here is the question you are running from.
Mary never wanted glory for herself. Have you ever wondered why anti-Mary Christians like yourself cover up the reformers teachings about Mary???
You have no idea how rude and insulting your baseless charge of idolatry is. You do it automatically without thinking, refuse to be reasoned with, and my guess is you have no clue what the reformers taught about Mary.
Martin Luther invented sola scriptura, and he had a strong devotion to Mary.
I accept truths handed down to me, you accept whatever you choose.

Martin Luther Was Extraordinarily Devoted to Mary

Catholics who know anything are quite aware that:

1. Mary is not God (as there is one God: monotheism).

2. Mary does not save herself (contra Pelagianism).

3. Mary is nothing that God did not grant to her, in grace (Catholics believe in sola gratia every bit as much as Protestants do, even — especially — where Mary is concerned).

4. Mary does not compete with God, but declares His glory, as the “masterpiece” of His creation, just as praise of a masterpiece of art is praise of the painter or sculptor or composer (Catholics don’t view veneration of saints and worship of God as identical, and don’t espouse an “either/or” or zero sum game notion: viz., that veneration of saints somehow detracts from or contradicts the worship of God, and His unique glory and majesty).
Anti-Catholic Caricatures of Catholic Mariology (vs. James Swan)

I suggest you do some reading and find out what your own reformers taught about Mary, and stop trolling with stupid flaming zingers.

Where in the Bible does this appear (or anything even close to it)?

Hail Mary, Full of Grace, The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death. Amen.

This is praying to a dead woman, asking her to pray for you, a sinner. It is absurd on both counts.

I suggest you do some reading and find out what lies the Catholic denomination teaches about Mary, and stop trolling with stupid flaming zingers.

 

[Jim B]

The sacred deposit of faith

Thee faith once delivered to the saints! Jude 1:3

Without (revealed catholic) faith it is impossible to please God! Heb 11:6

The church possesses the truths revealed by Christ in person, not from scripture, Jude 1:3, 1 Tim 3:15
Matt 18:17

a) The Catholic denomination is not the church!
b) Stop adding to Scripture! "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." "revealed catholic" is your addition. Shame on you!
c) Saying that "The church possesses the truths revealed by Christ in person, not from scripture" is nonsense. It is exactly the propaganda that your clergy wants you to believe! Once you go beyond Scripture, you can dream up any lie you want, then tell your people that it, not the Bible, is truth! That is the strategy of Satan!!!
d) BTW, the church is not the Catholic denomination. It is the body of Christ.

Sola scriptura!

 

[Marine0311]

where does scripture say to read for yourself and make your own doctrine?

acts 8:31 he had scripture God sent by angel an apostle to teach him! (Matt 28:19)

we must be taught / instructed!
But that requires humility

Christians must be taught

We cannot read and decide doctrine for themselves according to scripture we must be “taught”!

Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

1 thes 4:6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified.




One faith!

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

One heart / one mind

Acts 4:32
And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul:

Romans 15:6
That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Apostles received the truth from Christ and are inspired by the Holy Spirit and are commanded to teach all men! Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13 Matt 28:19

Apostles have same mission, power, ministry, and authority as Christ!
Jn 20:21

 

[Marine0311]

2Ti 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. No one can study and rightly understand scripture for you. If you do not study scripture then their error becomes your error.

 

[Jim B]

Please explain how the church of Jesus Christ existed before the New Testament, exercised the authority of Christ and the church taught and believed before the New Testament with the same authority of Christ!

Church of the apostles has the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21-23

The church wrote the New Testament, the church gathered the cannon of scripture, the church alone has authority to say what is, and what is not scripture and to give the authoritative interpretation or meaning of scripture!

There is nothing in Scripture that mentions "the church of the apostles"! That is a term made up by the Catholic denomination.

a) The apostles wrote the New Testament, not "the church".
b) There is no "cannon" of Scripture. A "cannon" is a weapon of war.
c) "The church alone has authority to say what is, and what is not scripture" is exactly the propaganda that your priests want you to believe. d) The canon of Scripture was decided long ago; none of your clergy has the right to determine which parts of it belong.
e) Your propagandists, a.k.a, your clergy, (falsely) tell you that they have the right to give the authoritative interpretation or meaning of scripture. Satan claims the same thing.
f) It's all lies and propaganda communicated by men who have one goal: to believe them instead of the word of God.

Sola scriptura!

 

[Jim B]

2Ti 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. No one can study and rightly understand scripture for you. If you do not study scripture then their error becomes your error.

While I basically agree with you, "study" meant something entirely different in 1611 than it does today.

Here are better translations of that verse in modern English...

"Make every effort to present yourself before God as a proven worker who does not need to be ashamed, teaching the message of truth accurately." NET

And: "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth." NIV

And: "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved by him, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly explaining the word of truth." NRSVue

And: "Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a worker who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth." NASB

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, you are mistaken. All of our doctrines would need to be the same if PEOPLE were infallible (which they are not). The Holy Scriptures can be perfect and various imperfect people understand imperfectly. The RCC one sold indulgences, but no longer does so. Does the historic disagreement prove that the Catholic Church stopped being the Church at some point, or does it merely prove that some RCC members understood (scripture, tradition and the teachings) incorrectly at some point.

Soooooo – YOUR God is the God of confusion?

The God of Scripture, who spoke the universe into existence with all of its intricacies and complexities leads ALL of the factions that worship Him into total confusion??
What a pathetic little god you’ve invented for yourself.

MY God – the God of Scripture and of the Church – guaranteed that the Holy Spirit would guide us to ALL TRUTH (John 16:12-15).
It’s a shame that He left your splintered factions floundering into ALL confusion . . .

And the Catholic Church NEVER sanctioned the selling of Indulgences. This was an ABUSE by some to raise money. Men like the German cleric, Johan Tetzel, whom Luther rightly had a problem with – who took it upon HIMSELF to sell Indulgences.
This moronic anti-Catholic claim is NEVER substantiated with an actual historical Document, Declaration or Decree. It’s just regurgitated by uneducated anti-Catholics.

I suggest you do your homework . . .

On this we agree.
Unfortunately, we do not have infallible traditions or infallible teachers in any church … read about Corinth in the infallible word of God. Therefore we must rely on the Written Word of God (Scripture) as our only objective source of infallible truth. That is what Sola Scriptura is all about.

The problem with that is that Scripture itself DOESN’T support Sola Scriptura – but DOES support the idea that Oral Tradition is ON PAR with Scripture (2 Thess. 2:15).

Now you’re back at Square ONE.

The “true church” is the Body of Christ. The ‘shibboleth’ of being “in Christ” is not a comprehensive examination on Christian Doctrines. Even the “Creeds” of the ecumenical councils of the early church, which claim to outline which doctrines one must believe to be a part of the “catholic” (universal) church are not the doctrines that Protestants generally disagree on. Credobaptism vs Paedobaptism is not an “essential” in any ecumenical creed.

I couldn’t agree with you more.

The true Church IS the Body of Christ.
It is NOT a perpetually-splintering and divided Body.

In his condemnation of divided factions, Paul wrote:
1 Cor. 1:13
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?

In place of “Paul”, you can insert, Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Knox, John Wesley, et al . . .

Scripture is silent on the subject of Sola Scriptura, as it is silent on many subjects (like driving a car or getting vaccinated). To argue something from what is NOT FOUND is called an “argument from silence” and is a Logical Fallacy. Scripture can neither prove nor disprove Sola Scriptura. However it does not need to. Scripture does prove that Scripture is infallible. If anything else wishes to claim infallible authority alongside scripture, then the burden of proof falls to that thing claiming infallibility to PROVE that it belongs alongside scripture as the infallible authority of God.

This is a SILLY argument.

Unlike Sola Scriptura - driving a car or getting vaccinated are NOT doctrines that you hand your salvation on.

A doctrine which claims that Scripture is our SOLE Authority must be spelled out in Scripture.

Tradition does not prove itself infallible and actually proves itself quite fallible.

Teachers do not prove themselves infallible and actually prove themselves quite fallible.

Then WHY do YOU adhere to the Canon of Scripture?
This was declared by the Catholic Church and is a TRADITION of the Church.

The fact that YOU adhere to this Tradition – yet condemn Tradition out of the other side of your mouth is nothing more than hypocrisy . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

"History of Romanism," pp. 541, 542. New York: 1871.
Commenting on this quote, a fundamental Baptist web site says the following:
For example, it has been estimated by careful and reputed historians of the Catholic Inquisition that 50 million people were slaughtered for the crime of "heresy" by Roman persecutors between the A.D. 606 and the middle of the 19th century. Estimates of the Number Killed by the Papacy in the Middle Ages and later

What a load of manure.

Your FIRST clue should have been the TITLE of the book you referenced – “The History of ROMANISM:”
There is NO such thing as “Romanism”. It is simply an archaic anti-Catholic term that serious non-Catholic scholars never use anymore.

Your SECOND clue should have been the ridiculously inflated numbers. Any serious student of history knows that “50 million slaughtered” would have wiped out the ENTIRE population of Europe – including Catholics.

When I instructed you to do your “homework” – I meant for you to do some SERIOUS homework with credible historical sources. This would cancel out your collection of Jack Chick comic books or other historically-bankrupt sources like “The History of Romanism” and Alexander Hislop’s, “The Two Babylons” - ALL of which have been AMPLY debunked.

So, go BACK to the drawing board and give me some HISTORICAL facts . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Mar 1:10 - And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw theheavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: We do have Jesus coming up out of the water after His baptism.

You’re a city-boy, aren’t you?

Can you show me an example of a body of water that you have to walk UP to in order to enter?
You walk UP and OUT of the water in EVERY lake, river or stream – just as the passage indicates

You’ll HAVE to do better than that.