Bible alone

[Marine0311]

Guess you never heard of Satan who sure stays busy keeping the RCC deceived.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Have you ever wondered why Roman Catholic apologist keep rewriting history ? You did know it was against Roman church law for a common man to have a bible for hundreds of years, and if anyone was caught with a bible they were tortured while many were murdered by your church for simply having a bible ?

You'be said a LOT of stupid things on this thread - bu this is by FAR the most asinine.
Time for a History Lesson . . .

What you are referring to is the prohibition of the Council of Toulouse in the 13th century.
It might interest somebovy as ignorant aas yourself of history that the printing press wasn't invented until the 15th century - so ALL books and Bibles were HANDWRITTEN. It literally too YEARS for scribes to copy a complete handwritten Bible, so they were not only RARE - but extremely expensive. Biblrs were, therefore, CHAINED to pulpits in churches around the world to keep them from being stolen.

It might ALSO interest you to know that priotr to the 20th century - the vast makority of the general public was functionally ILLITERATE. So even if they had the money to buy a Bible - they would have ZERO use for it. Now - back to the Council of toulouse . . .

This edict wasa declared because of the fact that there were MANY spurious and poorly-translated version being passed around because of rich people who wanted their own copies. This gave birth to MANY heresies and false beliefs. In an effore to stop this travesty, the Council declared that the public was forbidden to own a copy because only OFFICIAL copies could be guaranteed to be correct.

So - YOUR idiotiic claim that the Church "rewrote" history and "murdered" people for simply "having a Bible" is as historically-bankrupt as ALL of your other claims that I've exposed.
Do your HOMEWORK . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Guess you never heard of Satan who sure stays busy keeping the RCC deceived.

Thank you for once again illustrating your complete failure to address ANY of the points I've made.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You missed the point that only their WRITTEN words survive for us to read today. We have no 8mm movies of Jesus and the Apostles from the First Century. Having played the game “Telephone”, we all know the danger of trusting a 2000 year old word of mouth report (a 100th hand account).

And yet there is NO expiration date on verses like 2 Thess. 2:15 . . .
2 Thess 2:15
"Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, EITHER by an ORAL STATEMENT OR by a LETTER from us."

And, while we're on the subject of Oral Tradition - qhich is AMPLY supported by Scripture - here are a few more things for you to contemplate in your rejection of Oral Tradition . . .

Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy "He shall be a Nazarene" is ORAL TRADITION. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the ORAL TRADITION of acknowledging Moses' seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

1 Cor. 10:4 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the rock following Moses. It is not recorded in the Old Testament. See Exod. 17:1-17 and Num. 20:2-13.

2 Timothy 3:8 - Paul relies on the ORAL TRADITION when speaking of Pharoah’s magicians, Jannes and Jambres. Their names are not recorded in the Old Testament.

Heb. 11:37 - the author of Hebrews relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the martyrs being sawed in two. This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jude 9 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of the Archangel Michael's dispute with satan over Moses' body. This is not found in the Old Testament.

Jude 14-15 - Jude relies on the ORAL TRADITION of Enoch's prophecy which is not recorded in the Old Testament.

 

[Marine0311]

You'be said a LOT of stupid things on this thread - bu this is by FAR the most asinine.
Time for a History Lesson . . .

What you are referring to is the prohibition of the Council of Toulouse in the 13th century.
It might interest somebovy as ignorant aas yourself of history that the printing press wasn't invented until the 15th century - so ALL books and Bibles were HANDWRITTEN. It literally too YEARS for scribes to copy a complete handwritten Bible, so they were not only RARE - but extremely expensive. Biblrs were, therefore, CHAINED to pulpits in churches around the world to keep them from being stolen.

It might ALSO interest you to know that priotr to the 20th century - the vast makority of the general public was functionally ILLITERATE. So even if they had the money to buy a Bible - they would have ZERO use for it. Now - back to the Council of toulouse . . .

This edict wasa declared because of the fact that there were MANY spurious and poorly-translated version being passed around because of rich people who wanted their own copies. This gave birth to MANY heresies and false beliefs. In an effore to stop this travesty, the Council declared that the public was forbidden to own a copy because only OFFICIAL copies could be guaranteed to be correct.

So - YOUR idiotiic claim that the Church "rewrote" history and "murdered" people for simply "having a Bible" is as historically-bankrupt as ALL of your other claims that I've exposed.
Do your HOMEWORK . . .

 

[Marine0311]

Exactly who gave the RCC the authority to judge anyone ? Your church literally killed people for having a copy of the scriptures. The reason wasn’t to stop error the real reason was because scripture exposed the lies your church had been telling since it began in 325. Your cult tried to keep people away from scripture so they could keep milking them for money with their phony traditions like indulgences and purgatory. You are really so deceived that you make lame excuses for your cult murdering people.

 

[Illuminator]

So many words to admit that you can’t name the tens of thousands of Protestant denominations that do not actually exist …

According to the Dictionary of Christianity in America [Protestant] (Downers Grove, IL: Intervarsity Press, 1990): “As of 1980 David B. Barrett identified 20,800 Christian denominations worldwide . . .” (that was 42 years ago)

(“Denominationalism,” p. 351). I have this book, so I have seen this with my own eyes. Barrett “classified them into seven major blocs and 156 ecclesiastical traditions.” This is from Oxford World Christian Encyclopedia, 1982, of which he is the editor.

Also, according to United Nations there were over 23,000 competing and often contradictory denominations world-wide (World Census of Religious Activities [U.N. Information Center, NY, 1989]). This was cited in Frank Schaeffer’s book Dancing Alone (Brookline, MA: Holy Cross Press, 1994), p. 4. Schaeffer is Orthodox.

The 1999 Encyclopedia of Christianity has this to say: “In 1985 David Barrett could count 22,150 distinct denominations worldwide.” {edited by E. Fahlbusch, et al., Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1999, vol. 1, p. 800, s.v. “Denomination.” David B. Barrett is the statistical editor}

So, he Dictionary of Christianity in America [Protestant], Oxford World Christian Encyclopedia, World Census of Religious Activities [U.N. Information Center, NY, 1989]), 1999 Encyclopedia of Christianity, (none of these sources are Catholic), are a bunch of liars???

 

[Illuminator]

Marine0311 will be ignored for trolling and endless hate speech.

 

[Marine0311]

Marine0311 will be ignored for trolling and endless hate speech.

 

[Marine0311]

Since when is truth hate speech ? The RCC seeks truth from evil men not God.Bye.

 

[Illuminator]

You missed the point that only their WRITTEN words survive for us to read today. We have no 8mm movies of Jesus and the Apostles from the First Century. Having played the game “Telephone”, we all know the danger of trusting a 2000 year old word of mouth report (a 100th hand account).

This statement proves you have no clue what tradition means, and it proves you have no intelligent response to post #305 and 307 that explains in detail what tradition means. So you deflect with stupid and absurd nonsense.

 

[Jim B]

No – you’ve RUN like a coward from every challenge I’ve posed to you,

- YOU claimed that Catholics practiced “idolatry” and “Mary worship”.
I challenged you too show me this teaching from the Catechism - and you FAILED.

- YOU made the ridiculously stupid claim that “No Roman Catholic has everever produces one verse in context that supports any Marian doctrine.” When I posted contextual proof that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant – you FAILED to respond.

- I have repeatedly explained to you that “Roman” Catholic Church is erroneous - -and you FAILED to understand.

- YOU claimed that Apostolic Succession was a false teaching. When I gave you explicit Scriptural support for it - you FAILED to respond.

- YOU claimed that the Catholic Church had “replaced” Jesus with Mary, the Father with a Pope and the Holy Spirit with a human priest.
When I asked you to show me proof of this – you FAILED to respond.

Your posts have been nothing but one pathetic failure after another – and yet you claim to know the truth.
You’re a false representative of Christ - and I’ve repeatedly exposed your incredible ignorance .

And you wonder why he ignores you? I wouldn't respond to such a vicious unChristian attack either!

 

[Jim B]

This statement proves you have no clue what tradition means, and it proves you have no intelligent response to post #305 and 307 that explains in detail what tradition means. So you deflect with stupid and absurd nonsense.

And you expect a reply to this? I wouldn't respond to such a vicious unChristian attack either!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

WRONG.

Paul wasn’t a hypocrite who called for unity and spoke out against factions in 1 Cor. 1 – who, a few chapters later in 1 Cor. 11, simply changed his mind.

In the latter passage, he is recognizing that the existence of different factions make is easy for us to tell who is right and who is wrong. He ISN’T putting his seal of approval on factions – especially since he told the SAME congregation a few chapters earlier that they should be of ONE mind and practice.

Within Protestantism, ALL factions claim to be correct.

This isn’t what Paul was writing about.

No he wasn't advocating factions, he just recognized they would come because of false teachers.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

See? There MUST be!!! when false teachers spoil the flock- the tried and true stand out. False shepherds come in and either take some of th eflock or take over the flocks and the true leave. Just like in the Protestant Reformation.

and you still have your mind twisted. The Church is an organism not an organization or sect. It is the people who com[prise the church not a sect with a hierarchy and organization. There is leaders and organization- but that is for the church but not the church.

1 Corinthians 12:12-31
King James Version

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

The one true church is all saved believers with all our disparate doctrine and divisions. we are one, even though we may quarrel and argue and split- god said we are one. Most just don't recognize it because they have blinded by their indoctrinators.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Exactly who gave the RCC the authority to judge anyone ?
Your church literally killed people for having a copy of the scriptures. The reason wasn’t to stop error the real reason was because scripture exposed the lies your church had been telling since it began in 325. Your cult tried to keep people away from scripture so they could keep milking them for money with their phony traditions like indulgences and purgatory. You are really so deceived that you make lame excuses for your cult murdering people.

The answer to your FIRST question above in RED is: Jesus.
Matt. 16:18-19
And I tell you, you are Peter (kepha), and on this rock (kepha) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and WHATEVER YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU loose on earth shall be loosed[c] in heaven.”

Matt. 18:17-18
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If YOU FORGIVE the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if YOU WITHHOLD FORGIVENESS from any, it is withheld.”

The answer to your SECOND idiocy is: Name ONE person who was killed by the Church for simply “having a copy” of the Scriptures.

As for the rest of your ignorant manure – I already addressed all of this in my LAST post, where I explained the erroneous and spurious copies being made, resulting in widespread heresy. I ALSO educated you about the fact that up to 95% of the population was ILLITERATE.

If you don’t believe me – put down your Jack Chick comic book and study your history . . .

 

[Marine0311]

The answer to your FIRST question above in RED is: Jesus.
Matt. 16:18-19
And I tell you, you are Peter (kepha), and on this rock (kepha) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and WHATEVER YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU loose on earth shall be loosed[c] in heaven.”

Matt. 18:17-18
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 20:21-23
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If YOU FORGIVE the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if YOU WITHHOLD FORGIVENESS from any, it is withheld.”

The answer to your SECOND idiocy is: Name ONE person who was killed by the Church for simply “having a copy” of the Scriptures.

As for the rest of your ignorant manure – I already addressed all of this in my LAST post, where I explained the erroneous and spurious copies being made, resulting in widespread heresy. I ALSO educated you about the fact that up to 95% of the population was ILLITERATE.

If you don’t believe me – put down your Jack Chick comic book and study your history . . .

 

[Marine0311]

So you claim Jesus told your cult to kill people who would not follow their orders ? I don’t think that is true.

 

[BreadOfLife]

And you wonder why he ignores you? I wouldn't respond to such a vicious unChristian attack either!

It’s always a “vicious” attack when an educated Catholilc puts an ignorant and morally-bankrupt anti-Catholic in his place.

Why is it never “vicious” when you guys LIE about the Catholic Church’s teaching or its role in history?

Can YOU spell “hypocrite? I can:
J-I-M - -B . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

So you claim Jesus told your cult to kill people who would not follow their orders ? I don’t think that is true.

And yet you still haven't been able to name a single one . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

No he wasn't advocating factions, he just recognized they would come because of false teachers.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

See? There MUST be!!! when false teachers spoil the flock- the tried and true stand out. False shepherds come in and either take some of th eflock or take over the flocks and the true leave. Just like in the Protestant Reformation.

and you still have your mind twisted. The Church is an organism not an organization or sect. It is the people who com[prise the church not a sect with a hierarchy and organization. There is leaders and organization- but that is for the church but not the church.

1 Corinthians 12:12-31
King James Version

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.

15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?

17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?

18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?

20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.

21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:

23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.

24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.

25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.

26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

The one true church is all saved believers with all our disparate doctrine and divisions. we are one, even though we may quarrel and argue and split- god said we are one. Most just don't recognize it because they have blinded by their indoctrinators.

Paul’s ENTIRE point in these passages is that there MUST be factions – or cliques – sio that heretical teachings are exposed. He NEVER advocated that those factions teach different doctrines.
He emphasized over and over that they MUST be of ONE mind, ONE spirit, ONE Baptism.

On this forum alone – I have debated Protestants and quasi-Christians about their NUMEROUS and bizarre teachings on Baptism. I’ve lost count of the number of false teachings I’ve had to debate against here – on just this ONE issue.
The number of weird, UN-Biblical and UN-historically Christian doctrines floating around out there

Do YOU think that that Paul – or the Holy Spirit would approve of this?
Not a CHANCE . . .