Bible alone

[Illuminator]

RIGHT.

2 Timothy 3:14-17 [NASB95]

14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned [them,] 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
​

I don’t care what you THINK, God’s Word says that Scripture is sufficient.

John says that he WROTE what is needed for salvation and life. Paul says all scripture will make us adequate and equipped for every good work.

From Ephesians 2:1-10, we know that covers EVERYTHING. Anything men added to that is men attempting to “boast in your flesh” whom Paul suggests should go all the way and emasculate themselves. We were warned about men that would add their traditions to supersede God’s word.

Pharisee much? ;)[/QUOTE]

2 Timothy 3
[14] But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, (Tradition)
knowing from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
[15] and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. (Scriptures)
[16] All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
[17] that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Note verse 14-15. It admonishes Timothy to do three things:

1. Remember what you have learned and firmly believed (Tradition)
2. Know from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
3. Know you have the Scriptures

The Bible on St. Paul's list comes in third, not first. He actually gives here the traditional Catholic teaching on the three sources of sound teaching.
In verse 15 he goes into an excursus on the Bible. This brief excursus emphasizes the value of the Bible and recommends a fourfold method of exegesis. This verse was used in the pre-Reformation Church as a proof text for the Quadriga which was the standard Catholic approach to the Bible. Still taught today. The Quadriga method used the following four categories:

• Literal/Literary (teaching) - the text as it is written
• Analogical (reproof) - matters of faith
• Anagogical (correction) - matters of hope/prophecy
• Moral (training in righteousness) - matters of charity

The analogical, anagogical and moral senses of the Bible were known collectively as the spiritual senses.
The 'reformers' rejected the BIBLICAL fourfold method of exegesis in favor of a more historical/literal approach,
and ignored 2 Tim 3:16!!!

We were warned about men that would add their traditions to supersede God’s word.

A stupid LIE.
"Tradition" Isn't a Dirty Word
Pharisee much???

 

[Illuminator]

Roman Catholics have to discredit “ bible alone” because scripture exposes the multitude of lies the RCC passes off as truth.

No, Catholics have to discredit "bible alone" because it isn't taught in the Bible...anywhere. We accept the material sufficiency of scripture, and reject the sole sufficiency because it's a man made tradition!!!
Material vs Formal Sufficiency of Scripture by Mark Shea ::

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The Bible alone?
As far as the written words of God, the Bible is sufficient.
"And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen." John 21:25

Imagine that Jesus spoken words ( the red letters) account for 31,000 words. Think about that. You can sit in a seminar for 3 hours and listen to 31k words- it's not that much really. Jesus taught the Disciples for 3 1/2 years. If he taught them for 3 hours/day that would be equivalent to the Encyclopedia Brittannica, about 40 million words. I doubt if he did speak that much but let's say his teaching totaled only 1 hour per day. The Bible would be so long, 20 times larger than it is. The entire Bible is about 788k words. Since He is the Word, they are all His, not just the red letters.
I can imagine that each one of the diciples asking him a thousand questions in that time period. Maybe their questions were personal, pertaining to past experiences, ir just general life questions, physics, science, how things work. He is the Creator. I know I would have a thousand questions just about life and creation: who, what, why, where, how ...
We get a small portion of knowledge, but it is sufficient for spiritual instruction and how to live, the basics. AND we have the Helper, the Holy Spirit. The Bible tells us "we don't need a teacher" other than the Holy Spirit. Imagine the individual counsel that the Holy Spirit gives each of us and all the actions He performs. If you could express them with written words for a lifetime, what that would amount to? Then multiply that by billions of Christians throughout the ages. The world could not contain the words.
The complete knowledge of an ant couldn't be contained in a book the size of the Bible. When you begin to fathom the complexity and enormous amount of information, the DNA and the cells within an ant, all the celluar functions, biology, chemistry, intelligence, communication, abilites, ecological purpose and relationships with other species, and there is so much more we do not know about the life of an ant, we would certainly surpass 788k words.

 

[atpollard]

Note verse 14-15. It admonishes Timothy to do three things:

1. Remember what you have learned and firmly believed (Tradition)
2. Know from whom you learned it (Magisterium)
3. Know you have the Scriptures

Why do your “(Tradition)” and “(Magisterium)” contradict “Scriptures”?

Sola Scriptura means that “Scriptures” are the only “final authority” because men are continually corrupting “(Tradition)” and “(Magisterium)”, but the Word of God is preserved for us as an unchanging yardstick.

A living example is the push to elevate Mary to co-redemptrix when scripture is clear that there is only one redeemer. So is the NEW TRADITION correct and the 2000 year old UNCHANGING WORD OF GOD incorrect? The MAGISTERIUM is slowly elevating “veneration” to “worship” as it has been for 2000 years. The Apostles would be horrified at your claims.

John and Paul both warned of the false teachers that were attempting to bring destructive ideas into the church in their days, yet the RCC honors and venerates those same false teachings and elevates them to Dogma while rejecting the Scripture that contradicts those teachings from the pens of the Apostles.

 

[Marine0311]

No, Catholics have to discredit "bible alone" because it isn't taught in the Bible...anywhere. We accept the material sufficiency of scripture, and reject the sole sufficiency because it's a man made tradition!!!
Material vs Formal Sufficiency of Scripture by Mark Shea ::

 

[Marine0311]

There are no scriptures that say “Roman Catholic” church alone which would violate John 14:6.

 

[BreadOfLife]

*cough* Prayers to the dead. *cough*
*cough* Queen of Heaven. *cough*
*cough* Purgatory. *cough*
No, not a SINGLE … more like a PLETHORA.

You should take something for that cough.

While you’re doing that – crack open your Bible and turn to 2 Macc. 12.
Oh, that’s right – your Protestant Fathers deleted that Book, along with 6 others – in part, because of the blatantly “Catholic” things taught in them.
Allow me to educate you . . .

Regarding praying for the dead and Purgatory . . .
In 2 Macc. 12:42-46, we see that Judas Maccabeus prays for the men of his army, killed in battle. Verse 44 says, “… for if he were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death.” Matt. 5:25-26 tells us that unless we have settled our matters, we will be “handed over to the prison guard and will not be released until we have paid the last penny.”

We are told in 1 Cor. 3:12-15 that “the day” (judgment) will disclose the foundation that a person builds upon and how it will be revealed: “If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone's work is burned up, that one will suffer loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire.”

- We KNOW that this can’t be Heaven because the person SUFFERS – and there is NO suffering in Heaven.
- We KNOW that this can’t be Hell because the person is eventually SAVED.
- This is describing a THIRD state – that of a final purification before entering Heaven because Rev. 21:27 tells us that NOTHING impure can enter Heaven. “Purgatory” is simply the name given to this final purification.

Additionally, Matt. 12:32 states, “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come”, which indicates that there is purification after death for some. Matt. 18:32-35 and Luke 12:58-59 are additional verses that support this doctrine.

As for Mary being the Queen of Heaven . . .
In the Davidic Kingdom, the wife of the King was NOT the Queen – but rather, his mother was elevated to that station. Queen Mother was a royal title and an office which was bestowed upon the mothers of the Kings of Israel but only to those in the line of David

1 Kings 2:19-20 tells us:
So Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him about Adonijah; the king got up to meet her and bowed before her; he then sat down on his throne; a seat was brought for the king’s mother, and she sat down on his right.
“There is one small favor I would ask of you,” she said. “Do not refuse me.” “Ask it, my mother,” the king said to her, “for I will not refuse you.”

Just as with the Davidic Kingdom, as Jesus is the King, Mary is the Queen Mother.

In the Book of Revelation, we see the New Ark of the Covenant in Heaven being spoken of at the very end of Chapter 11, verse 19: Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.

The very next verse is in Chapter 12 (Rev 12:1): A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.

Verse 2 says: She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.

We know that this child is Jesus because in verse 4, we read: She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.

The Woman is wearing a crown of Twelve stars that symbolized BOTH the OT Type that is the 12 Tribes of Israel - and the NT Fulfillment that is the 12 Apostles. Israel and the Church.
There is simply NO getting around the fact that the Woman here in Revelation 12 is Mary.

Anything else?

 

[BreadOfLife]

There are no scriptures that say “Roman Catholic” church alone which would violate John 14:6.

Correct - vecause there us NO such thing as the "Roman Catholic Church.
It is simply called, "The Catholic Church".

"Roman" simply refers to the largest Liturgical Rite within the Catholic Church. There are about TWENTY Liturgical Rites, including the Melkite, Maronite, Byzantine, Coptic, Ruthenian, etc.
They are ALL part of the ONE Catholic Church and are in FULL communion with each other and with the Bishop of Rome.

Do your homework before you use incorrect terms like "RCC" or "Roman Catholic Church".

 

[Taken]

There are no scriptures that say “Roman Catholic” church alone which would violate John 14:6.

@atpollard

RECALL...God sent forth out of his mouth, His Word, in the likeness as;
A Jewish man, to seek the Jews, and said call Him JESUS, a Name ABOVE ALL other names. Hear Him, Trust Him, Believe Him, Worship Him.

RECALL...Jesus selects disciples to Hear, Trust, Believe Him. Prepares them to BE Apostles, and carry on Jesus’ mission...
SEEK the Jews, Preach the Gospel and Doctrines of Christ the Lord Jesus, and thereafter SEEK out after “the other Tribes of ISRAEL”.

RECALL...
Matt 10:5
[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
[6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

RECALL...
Acts 9:
[11] And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

OBSERVE...
Catholic (Gentile) Church:
....St (Jewish) Peter
Catholic holy father;
....(Jewish) Peter, p-p-p-p-p-popes
Catholic rock;
....(Jewish) Peter,
Catholic Queen;
....(Jewish) Mary

WHY?

 

[BreadOfLife]

In response to your Catholic Fathers offering salvation for sale as indulgences to fund the political corruption that allowed wealthy families to BUY their titles as Cardinals and Popes. (If you REALLY want to discuss the reason for the Protestant Reformation).

However, I am a Particular Baptist … so we grew out of a different source than Martin Luther and the corruption in the RCC. It is also worth pointing out that the other Apostolic Churches (the Orthodox Churches) called out the Bishop of Rome on the RCC Apostasy 500 years before the Protestant Reformation. So comparing Jim Jones and the Pope is apropos … both believed that they had authority equal to God and should be worshipped without question by men.

Show me where the BIBLE instructs us to break away from Christ's Church because we "disagree" with the leadership.

As to the sale of Indulgences - this was NECVER a doctrinal teaching of the Catholic Church. it was an ABUSE by some. Men like the German cleric, Johann Tetzel, whom Luther rightly had a problem with took it upon THEMSELVES to do this.

There have been other hierarchical problems in history. This is bound to happen ANY time you have flawed human beiungs involed in ANYTHING - even your Protestant factions.

Finally - I never comp[atred the Bishop of Rome with Jim Jones. - but your dishonesty doesn't surprise me.
I used Jim Jones as an textbook example of the man-made perversion that is Sola Scriptura.

 

[BreadOfLife]

@theefaith @BreadOfLife Get over it.
Some men choose the God Inspired Written Word of God IN the BIBLE, OVER the Written Word of men after the flesh, NOT Written IN the Bible.

I've seen you guys post verse after verse in a desperate effort to support your man-made doctrine of Sola Scriptura - yet NONE of those beautifuol verses mentions a thing about this fallacy.

It's as bad as trying to use the Parable of the Prodigal Son to support abortion . . .

 

[Dropship]

Show me where the BIBLE instructs us to break away from Christ's Church because we "disagree" with the leadership..

If any of the many creeds and churches out there are no good, it's our duty to walk rather than go up the spout with them..:)
"He who walks with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm" (Proverbs 13:20)
"Bad company corrupts good character" (1 Corinthians 15:33)
"If you hang around with losers you become a loser"- Donald Trump

 

[Marine0311]

@atpollard

RECALL...God sent forth out of his mouth, His Word, in the likeness as;
A Jewish man, to seek the Jews, and said call Him JESUS, a Name ABOVE ALL other names. Hear Him, Trust Him, Believe Him, Worship Him.

RECALL...Jesus selects disciples to Hear, Trust, Believe Him. Prepares them to BE Apostles, and carry on Jesus’ mission...
SEEK the Jews, Preach the Gospel and Doctrines of Christ the Lord Jesus, and thereafter SEEK out after “the other Tribes of ISRAEL”.

RECALL...
Matt 10:5
[5] These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
[6] But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

RECALL...
Acts 9:
[11] And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and inquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
[15] But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

OBSERVE...
Catholic (Gentile) Church:
....St (Jewish) Peter
Catholic holy father;
....(Jewish) Peter, p-p-p-p-p-popes
Catholic rock;
....(Jewish) Peter,
Catholic Queen;
....(Jewish) Mary

WHY?

 

[Marine0311]

Do you see Mary, a pope, or human priest in what Jesus said:

Jhn 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Taken]

Correct - vecause there us NO such thing as the "Roman Catholic Church.
It is simply called, "The Catholic Church".

"Roman" simply refers to the largest Liturgical Rite within the Catholic Church. There are about TWENTY Liturgical Rites, including the Melkite, Maronite, Byzantine, Coptic, Ruthenian, etc.
They are ALL part of the ONE Catholic Church and are in FULL communion with each other and with the Bishop of Rome.

Do your homework before you use incorrect terms like "RCC" or "Roman Catholic Church".

Catholic splintering schisms...
“Liturgical Rites” simply reveals they have Different distinct liturgical, theological, canonical, and or traditions, and the Catholic Church despite their differences allows them to call themselves Catholic.
...Yielding and toe stepping over the line is financially and clout numbers in the tally of congregates Advantageous. Not a big secret.

 

[Marine0311]

I've seen you guys post verse after verse in a desperate effort to support your man-made doctrine of Sola Scriptura - yet NONE of those beautifuol verses mentions a thing about this fallacy.

It's as bad as trying to use the Parable of the Prodigal Son to support abortion . . .

 

[Marine0311]

So you believe trusting and following mans traditions are better than trusting and following God’s word( scripture), got ya.

 

[Marine0311]

Correct - vecause there us NO such thing as the "Roman Catholic Church.
It is simply called, "The Catholic Church".

"Roman" simply refers to the largest Liturgical Rite within the Catholic Church. There are about TWENTY Liturgical Rites, including the Melkite, Maronite, Byzantine, Coptic, Ruthenian, etc.
They are ALL part of the ONE Catholic Church and are in FULL communion with each other and with the Bishop of Rome.

Do your homework before you use incorrect terms like "RCC" or "Roman Catholic Church".

 

[Marine0311]

FYI, the RCC was begun in Rome in 325 ad by a Roman emperor so why would you be offended when others refer to your cult as the Roman Catholic Church ?

 

[Marine0311]

No, Catholics have to discredit "bible alone" because it isn't taught in the Bible...anywhere. We accept the material sufficiency of scripture, and reject the sole sufficiency because it's a man made tradition!!!
Material vs Formal Sufficiency of Scripture by Mark Shea ::