Bible alone

[atpollard]

Correct - vecause there us NO such thing as the "Roman Catholic Church.
It is simply called, "The Catholic Church".

"Roman" simply refers to the largest Liturgical Rite within the Catholic Church. There are about TWENTY Liturgical Rites, including the Melkite, Maronite, Byzantine, Coptic, Ruthenian, etc.
They are ALL part of the ONE Catholic Church and are in FULL communion with each other and with the Bishop of Rome.

Do your homework before you use incorrect terms like "RCC" or "Roman Catholic Church".

Orthodox Church in America
Question
As a Greek Orthodox may I receive the sacrament of Holy Communion in a Catholic Church. Do you know the rules regarding Greek Orthodox and Catholic relations? I live in an area where the closest church is a Roman Catholic Church. Does the Catholic Church recognize us as equals?

Answer
Orthodox Christians are not permitted to receive Communion in non-Orthodox communities, including the Roman Catholic. To do so would imply a unity that in fact does not yet exist. Also it implies that we are “united” to the faith community from which we receive the Eucharist.

In brief, while Roman Catholicism sees Orthodoxy as a “sister church”, Orthodoxy sees herself as the fullness of the Church, not the “other half” of the Church, as implied in the notion of a “sister church.”

 

[atpollard]

Sooooo - why are there lliterally tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestannt factions that ALL teach different doctrines yet ALL claim to be part of the "ONE" Church?

There aren’t.
Name all tens of thousands.
Name one thousand.

The figure comes from a freakish way of counting. If we SAY that every RCC congregation (local assembly) is a distinct denomination, then how many “Catholic” denominations would there be? That is the sort of game being played with the Protestant denominations. If you disagree, then prove me wrong and list them.

 

[atpollard]

The Bible - which YOU claim to be our SOLE Authority teaches against factions/denominations (1 cor. 3:4-7).

[1 Corinthians 3:4-7 NASB95] 4 For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not [mere] men? 5 What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave [opportunity] to each one. 6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth. 7 So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.​

So where exactly does 1 Corinthians 3 “teach against factions/denominations”?
This is exactly why it is important to follow the example of the Bereans and check Scripture to see if what men claim is true.

What scripture DOES say about factions is this (read it for yourself and decide what it means):

[1 Corinthians 11:19 NASB95] 19 For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.​

 

[atpollard]

Henry VIII wasn't granted a divorce or anullment from the Church - so he revolted, like the rest of your Ptrotestant Fathers.

Huss never revolted … he was just murdered for speaking the truth and getting in the way of oppressive taxation. The revolt came after he was martyred by Rome.

But the Czechs, with Huss, also warmed up to Wycliffe's reforming ideas; though they had no intention of altering traditional doctrines, they wanted to place more emphasis on the Bible, expand the authority of church councils (and lessen that of the pope), and promote the moral reform of clergy. Thus Huss began increasingly to trust the Scriptures, "desiring to hold, believe, and assert whatever is contained in them as long as I have breath in me."

A political struggle ensued, with the Germans labeling Wycliffe and his followers heretics. With the support of the king of Bohemia, the Czechs gained the upper hand, and the Germans were forced to flee to other universities.

The situation was complicated by European politics, which watched as two popes vied to rule all of Christendom. A church council was called at Pisa in 1409 to settle the matter. It deposed both popes and elected Alexander V as the legitimate pontiff (though the other popes, repudiating this election, continued to rule their factions). Alexander was soon "persuaded"—that is, bribed—to side with Bohemian church authorities against Huss, who continued to criticize them. Huss was forbidden to preach and excommunicated, but only on paper: with local Bohemians backing him, Huss continued to preach and minister at Bethlehem Chapel.

When Alexander V's successor, the antipope John XXIII (not to be confused with the modern pope by the same name), authorized the selling of indulgences to raise funds for his crusade against one of his rivals, Huss was scandalized and further radicalized. The pope was acting in mere self-interest, and Huss could no longer justify the pope's moral authority. He leaned even more heavily on the Bible, which he proclaimed the final authority for the church. Huss further argued that the Czech people were being exploited by the pope's indulgences, which was a not-so-veiled attack on the Bohemian king, who earned a cut of the indulgence proceeds.

With that Huss lost the support of his king. His excommunication, which had been tacitly dropped, was now revived, and an interdict was put upon the city of Prague: no citizen could receive Communion or be buried on church grounds as long as Huss continued his ministry. To spare the city, Huss withdrew to the countryside toward the end of 1412. He spent the next two years in feverish literary activity, composing a number of treatises. The most important was The Church, which he sent to Prague to be read publicly. In it he argued that Christ alone is head of the church, that a pope "through ignorance and love of money" can make many mistakes, and that to rebel against an erring pope is to obey Christ.

In November 1414, the Council of Constance assembled, and Huss was urged by Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund to come and give an account of his doctrine. Because he was promised safe conduct, and because of the importance of the council (which promised significant church reforms), Huss went. When he arrived, however, he was immediately arrested, and he remained imprisoned for months. Instead of a hearing, Huss was eventually hauled before authorities in chains and asked merely to recant his views.

When he saw he wasn't to be given a forum for explaining his ideas, let alone a fair hearing, he finally said, "I appeal to Jesus Christ, the only judge who is almighty and completely just. In his hands I plead my cause, not on the basis of false witnesses and erring councils, but on truth and justice." He was taken to his cell, where many pleaded with him to recant. On July 6, 1415, he was taken to the cathedral, dressed in his priestly garments, then stripped of them one by one. He refused one last chance to recant at the stake, where he prayed, "Lord Jesus, it is for thee that I patiently endure this cruel death. I pray thee to have mercy on my enemies." He was heard reciting the Psalms as the flames engulfed him.
​

That was how Jon Huss “revolted” against the Church.
(100 years later … Martin Luther offered the same complaints that the same Rome was engaged in the same corruption … and Rome invited him to a “talk” that was really an assassination.)

 

[atpollard]

As for your nonsense above in RED - you should be ashaned of your continua lying.
WHEN are you guys going to do your hoomework?

Does this mean you admit or deny that Luther was invited to present his case before the Church as a pretext to assassinate him?

I think very little of Luther (one way or another) … I am a Particular Baptist, so my roots are not from the Protestant Reformation of the 1500’s. I merely think that he started out attempting to reform a corrupt Church that gave him the shaft.

 

[atpollard]

And I have ALSO shown you several times - Protestant scholarship agrees that Peter is the "Rock" of Matt. 16:18.
Seems the ONLY ones who disagree are ignporant internet posters like yourself . . .

I was a bit disappointed with the “scholarship” of the sources you chose. It is one thing to be proven wrong, but it is discouraging to hear one expert after another repeat “Yes this is not what the actual Greek that SAYS, but I am convinced that what they REALLY MEANT TO SAY WAS …”

That is just bad hermeneutics.

Setting that aside. Even if we grant that Jesus gave authority to Peter and responsibility to Peter and promised to build His Church on the person of Peter … none of that comes close to suggesting “and all future bishops of Rome”.

 

[Taken]

YOUR problem is ...

Your problems are numerous...
* Primarily thinking yourself a teacher.
* Secondly thinking your “elementary and false” teaching should be considered or is of value to a man, already Forgiven, Restor-ed, Quicken-ed and MADE by the WORD and POWER of Christ Jesus, a citizen of Gods Household.


* The LORD God is the Rock Foundation of His ManKIND “very good” Creation.

* ManKIND fell from his “very good” status.

* Christ the Lord Jesus is Rock Foundation and Maker of the LORD Gods Temple/Church.

* Christ the Lord Jesus IS The WORD and POWER of God that CAN RESTORE a “fallen Man-KIND” thing of Gods Creation.

* Every “Man-KIND” of thing “forgiven” and MADE “restor-ED” and “quicken-ED, by the WORD and POWER of Christ, IS Joined Together IN the citizenship of Gods Household.

You have revealed repeatedly;
* your membership is IN the Catholic Church.
* your Church declared you, Without your knowledge, or confession, of Belief...Baptized in the Holy Spirit, as an infant.
* you continue “supposedly working” (which appears “working to you means” repeating Catholic Doctrine rhetoric. )
* your supposed “works”, will at some point, cause your soul to BECOME MADE “sav-ED”.


* I elected to CHOOSE Gods WAY, the Lords WAY, and JOIN the Citizenship of Gods Household, according to Gods Word and Gods Power, and Christ Jesus’ MAKING, am adjoined IN the membership of Christ Jesus’ Church.

* While YOU Continue to SIN, Continue to Repeatedly ask for Forgiveness of your repetitive SINS and WAIT to BECOME made soul sav-ED, and adjoined IN the membership of Christ Jesus’ Church...
* You WAIT and HOPE, for what the Lord God has ALREADY GIVEN ME, according to “HIS” Order and “HIS” Way.
* And sadly, you attempt to teach others to DO as you have Chosen and Done, as you were taught and preached according to your Catholic WAY through Catholic Doctrine.

The Rock foundation of Gods TEMPLE IS God.
First Added, as stone, pebble, rock, upon Gods Rock foundation are the Prophets of God.
The Rock foundation of Christs CHURCH IS Christ.
First Added, as stone, pebble, rock, upon Christs Rock foundation are the Apostles of Christ.

* Newsflash -
It matters NOT, the ORDER, of the Prophets of God being added to Gods Temple...THEN the ORDER, of the Apostles of Christ being added to Christs Church...BOTH are members OF...
Gods Temple AND Christs Church and ARE “citizens of Gods Household”.

* Newsflash -
Every man, thereafter the Prophets; Every man, thereafter the Apostles, ARE (as stone, rock) UPON the ROCK God, UPON the ROCK Christ, “citizens of the Lord Gods Household”.

* YOU, still openly claim YOU continue to SIN, (and like a little child wag your tongue and point your finger at others, na, na, na, na, na, an, you sinned, and you sinned, and you sinned, Obviously another faulty teaching of Catholicism ) YOU continue to ask for Forgiveness, are STILL WAITING for your “soul” to become MADE saved, and HOPE by your “works” (whatever you think works are)...
* THAT YOU WILL BECOME “a citizen of the Lord Gods Household”.
* Meantime, you are content to be a “member of a mans household”...
Your Catholic Church, Your man elected “holy father”, Your Catholic Doctrine, Your continuing in Sin, Your blah, blah, blah....STILL WAITING and HOPING to JOIN Christ’s Church.

Keep Trying to sit on Peter’s back, AS IF, he IS your appointed Savior.
He is simply a Jewish manKIND of thing that was SAV-ED, and MADE a “citizen of the Lord Gods Household”, And SENT to Preach TO the Jews and other Tribes of Israel, HOW THEY could become MADE, ALSO, “citizens of the Lord Gods Household”.

You a Jew? You a Tribesman of Israel?

Pretty SAD, Your own Catholic “GENTILE” Church, does NOT even know or highlight WHOM the Lord God Himself Appointed to teach the Gentiles!

I already KNOW, the Lord God Almighty IS the Rock, and those added to His Household are as “rocks”, Because Once and Forever they have By the Power of God:
BEEN FORGIVEN their SIN and MADE:
“restor-ED”, “quicken-ED”.

 

[Davy]

The OP already had a Thread on this topic, so this thread is just a repeat with a small change in the title. Pretty slick the OP is trying to be.

 

[Illuminator]

Huss never revolted … he was just murdered for speaking the truth and getting in the way of oppressive taxation. The revolt came after he was martyred by Rome...

Benedict XVI confronts the ghost of Jan Hus​

 

[Illuminator]

ADDRESS OF THE HOLY FATHER
TO AN INTERNATIONAL SYMPOSIUM ON JOHN HUS

17 December 1999

Distinguished Members of the Government,
Dear Cardinal and Brother Bishops,
Distinguished Scholars,
Ladies and Gentlemen,

1. It gives me great pleasure to greet you on the occasion of your Symposium on John Hus, which has been another important step towards a deeper understanding of the life and work of the renowned Bohemian preacher, one of the most famous of the many great scholars to come from the University of Prague. Hus is a memorable figure for many reasons. But it is particularly his moral courage in the face of adversity and death that has made him a figure of special significance to the Czech people, who have themselves suffered much through the centuries. I am particularly grateful to all of you who have contributed to the work of the ecumenical Commission “Husovská”, established some years ago by Cardinal Miloslav Vlk in order to identify more precisely the place that Jan Hus occupies among those who sought a reform of the Church.

2. It is significant that scholars not only from the Czech Republic but also from neighbouring countries have taken part in this Symposium. No less significant is the fact that, despite the tensions that have marred relations between Czech Christians in the past, scholars from different Confessions have come together to share their knowledge. Now that you have brought together the best and latest scholarly work on Jan Hus and the events in which he was involved, the next step will be to publish the results of the Symposium, so that as many people as possible will have an insight not only into a remarkable man but also into an important and complex period of Christian and European history.

Today, on the eve of the Great Jubilee, I feel the need to express deep regret for the cruel death inflicted on John Hus, and for the consequent wound of conflict and division which was thus imposed on the minds and hearts of the Bohemian people. It was during my first visit to Prague that I declared my hope that precisely in your land decisive steps could be taken on the path of reconciliation and true unity in Christ. The wounds of past centuries must be healed through a new attitude and completely renewed relationships. May our Lord Jesus Christ, “who is our peace... and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility” (Eph 2:14), guide the path of your people’s history towards the rediscovered unity of all Christians, which we ardently hope for in the millennium that is about to begin.

3. Scholarly endeavours to reach a more profound and complete grasp of historical truth are crucial to this cause. Faith has nothing to fear from the work of historical research, for, in the final analysis, research too is directed towards the truth which has in God its source. Therefore, I give thanks to our Father in Heaven for your work as it reaches its end, just as I was keen to encourage you as you began.

The writing of history is sometimes beset by ideological, political or economic pressures, so that the truth is obscured and history itself becomes a prisoner of the powerful. Genuinely scientific study is our best defense against such pressures and the distortions they can bring. It is true that it is very difficult to attain an absolutely objective account of history, since personal convictions, values and experiences inevitably impinge upon historical study. Yet this does not mean that we cannot offer an account of history which is in a very real sense impartial and therefore true and liberating. Your own work is a proof that this is possible.

4. The truth can also prove uncomfortable when it asks us to abandon long-held prejudices and stereotypes. This is as true of Churches, ecclesial communities and religions as it is of nations and individuals. Yet the truth which sets us free from error is also the truth which sets us free for love; and it is Christian love which has been the horizon of what your Commission has sought to do. Your work means that a figure like Jan Hus, who has been such a point of contention in the past, has now become a subject of dialogue, of comparison and shared investigation.

At a time when many are working to create a new kind of unity in Europe, studies such as yours can help to inspire people to go beyond narrow ethnic and national confines to genuine openness and solidarity. It can help Europeans to understand that the continent will advance more assuredly to a new and enduring unity if it draws in fresh and creative ways upon its shared Christian roots and upon the specific identity which derived from them.

5. It is clear, then, that your work is an important service not only to the historical figure of Jan Hus but also to Christians and European society more generally. This is because, in the end, it is a service to the truth about man; and it is this truth above all which the human family needs to recover at the dawn of the Third Millennium of the Christian era.

In contemplating the truth about man, we turn inevitably to the figure of the Risen Christ. He alone teaches and embodies completely the truth of man created in the image and likeness of God (cf. Gen 1:26). I pray most fervently that he who is “the same... for ever” (Heb 13:8) will send his light into your hearts. As a pledge of grace and peace in him, I invoke upon you, your loved ones, and upon the whole Czech nation the abundant blessings of Almighty God, to whom be “glory and wisdom and thanksgiving for ever and ever! Amen” (Rev 7:12).
To the participants in the International Symposium on Jan Hus (December 17, 1999) | John Paul II

 

[theefaith]

Roman Catholics have to discredit “ bible alone” because scripture exposes the multitude of lies the RCC passes off as truth.

name one!

how about call no man father?

Matt 23:9
Call no man Father?

Is this an absolute requirement?
Or is Our Savior condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!


Then there is spiritual fathers!

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Peter, Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!


Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, so send in you. (The apostles) posses the same power mission and authority as Christ!
Peter, the apostles and their successors!


Eph 3: 14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

every family in heaven and on earth is named from the “Father.” We are fathers in the Father.

Acts 7:2; 22:1, 1 John 2:13 – elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, “Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?”

1 Cor. 4:17 – Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful “child” in the Lord.

2 Cor. 12:14 – Paul describes his role as parent over his “children” the Corinthians.

Phil. 2:22 – Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”

1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.

1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 – Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.

Titus 1:4 – Paul calls Titus his true “child” in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.

Philemon 10 – Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.

Heb. 12:7,9 – emphasizes our earthly “fathers.” But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).

1 Peter 5:13 – Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”

1 John 2:1,1 John 2:13,14 – John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”

Isa 22:21-22 the prime minister who administer the kingdom under the king in the line of david Lk 1:32-23 has the title father and hold the keys Matt 16:18

 

[theefaith]

Incorrect, Sola Scriptura affirms the divine tradition: Christ taught the Apostles who wrote the sacred scripture, not the men that came hundreds and thousands of years later claiming to have new teachings from Christ.


Incorrect, Sola Scriptura affirms the power of the Holy Spirit: He guided the Apostles into all truth and to record that truth in the 66 books of the God-breathed scripture; He guided the Church to follow His Word and to reject the words of mere men added on to the revelation of God to distort the Gospel of Christ.


Incorrect, Sola Scriptura affirms the apostolic tradition: It is the dross of uninspired human tradition that is rejected.

then stop using the word “alone”

and there are no new doctrines in the Christian faith!

the sacred deposit of faith was from Christ to his church in the persons of the apostles eph 4:5 Jude 1:3
The church can only make this faith known to all men and to condemn all errors that are offices to it!

 

[theefaith]

Roman Catholics have to discredit “ bible alone” because scripture exposes the multitude of lies the RCC passes off as truth.

B

 

[theefaith]

Roman Catholics have to discredit “ bible alone” because scripture exposes the multitude of lies the RCC passes off as truth.

The church existed and exercised authority from Christ before the New Testament was written, and the church wrote it!


Ephesians 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Requirements of the church founded by Christ!

One:
Holy:
Catholic / universal:
Apostolic succession:
The teacher of truth to all men without error:
Visible kingdom with visible unity:
Founded by God in Christ not by any man!

Not a collection of believers but a hierarchical church with jurisdictional authority!



Truth is immutable!
The church is ir-reformable!

Both are from God who is the same yesterday, today, and forever!

Lk 1:32-33 His kingdom shall have no end!

Matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail!

Jn 21:23 same mission, power, and authority as Christ!

The church is built only by Christ on His apostles! Matt 16:18 eph 2:20

 

[theefaith]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

 

[theefaith]

Bible alone
OP ^

Bible alone for VERIFICATION of what you Hear Preached...ABSOLUTELY!

The Word of God, called it NOBLE.

NOBLE means: Having or showing qualities of high moral character, such as courage, generosity, or honor.

Acts 17:
[11] These (In Berra) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that (BECAUSE) they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

1 Cor 1:
[26] For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
[27] But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
[28] And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
[29] That no flesh should glory in his presence.
[30] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
[31] That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.


@theefaith @BreadOfLife Get over it.
Some men choose the God Inspired Written Word of God IN the BIBLE, OVER the Written Word of men after the flesh, NOT Written IN the Bible.

Some men choose to NOT be Confounded BY men after the flesh, as unbelieving Jews in Thessalonica did:
They not only “not believing”, The word of God; but “instigating” a “religious AND political” uproar in an effort to oppress, the Teaching of Jesus “His Spiritual Wisdom and Righteousness and Sanctification and Redemption” by the mouth of Jesus’ chosen vessel, Paul.

Acts 17...The parallel of Jews in the Synagogue in Thessononia rejection of Scripture, rejection of Paul’s Preaching, the instigating against Scripture, the instigating against those who Standing is IN Scripture and IN Christ.

Sound familiar?

2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, andspeak face to face, that our joy may be full.

 

[Jim B]

Time to repeat what I (an Evangelical) have often said here: I have successfully sued the Catholic church, but recognize that B of L has generally refuted his Fundamentalist critics here, who spew anti-Catholic ad hominems as an excuse to avoid getting into the Word in context!
Fundamentalists duck the decisive significance of Jesus' declaration, "You are Peter ("Petros" or "Cephas" in Aramaic) in Matthew 16:18-19. Jesus says this to establish His pun that identifies "Cephas" not Himself, as "the Rock" on which "I will build my church." Jesus needs to clarify this because "rock" is a multivalent image and because He elsewhere alludes to Himself as the "foundation," cornerstone," and "rock." All doubt about this interpretation is removed when Jesus then proceeds to give "the keys of the kingdom" to Cephas and only to Cephas. "Peter's unique authority as expressed here is recognized by non-Catholic academic book commentaries just on Matthew.

This is shown to be false by Galatians 2:7-9, "On the contrary, when they saw that I was entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised just as Peter was entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised (for he who empowered Peter for his apostleship to the circumcised also empowered me for my apostleship to the Gentiles) and when James, Cephas, and John, who had a reputation as pillars, recognized the grace that had been given to me, they gave to Barnabas and me the right hand of fellowship, agreeing that we would go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised."

Peter, a.k.a. Cephas, was given a specific task: apostle to the circumcised (the Jews). Claiming that Peter was the rock on which the church was built is not scriptural.

 

[Jim B]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42
1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

It says in the Bible that Jesus expected His disciples to carry on His work. That doesn't mean, by any stretch of the imagination, that this refers to the Roman Catholic denomination! There is no mention of the Catholic denomination in Scripture; it is the invention of men who seek power over others.

Sola scriptura!

 

[Illuminator]

I was a bit disappointed with the “scholarship” of the sources you chose. It is one thing to be proven wrong, but it is discouraging to hear one expert after another repeat “Yes this is not what the actual Greek that SAYS, but I am convinced that what they REALLY MEANT TO SAY WAS …”

That is just bad hermeneutics.

The fact that you can easily protest a long list of Protestant scholars as "bad hermeneutics" shows you are a true Protestant.

Setting that aside. Even if we grant that Jesus gave authority to Peter and responsibility to Peter and promised to build His Church on the person of Peter … none of that comes close to suggesting “and all future bishops of Rome”.

But it does, as attested by the facts of history; truckloads of early church documents. It is impossible to re-write early church history based on the Bible alone. Sadly, the sola scripturist doesn't have such freedom, which forces them to re-write early church history so it fits an ideology.

 

[Marine0311]

The fact that you can easily protest a long list of Protestant scholars as "bad hermeneutics" shows you are a true Protestant.


But it does, as attested by the facts of history; truckloads of early church documents. It is impossible to re-write early church history based on the Bible alone. Sadly, the sola scripturist doesn't have such freedom, which forces them to re-write early church history so it fits an ideology.