Bible alone

[GracePeace]

That's reasonable, but Jude never said he lived 1 Enoch--he just quoted a traditional prophecy of Enoch that happened to have been recorded in 1 Enoch. It's certainly fair game to investigate it, and to find value in it.

I think our difference is that I believe God certified, in his call to certain men, certain letters or books as worthy of keeping both for devotional and for instructional purposes, set apart as more critical than other works precisely because they represent foundational materials, upon which the Church was based. Christianity has been based upon the Law and the Abrahamic Covenant, as well as upon the teaching of Christ, as conveyed to us through those close enough to him to properly represent it. To me, that's what makes Scriptures "Scripture." It has its own intrinsic value, as opposed to other Christian works that also have great spiritual value.

Anyway, it's not like we need more holy books--we don't have enough adherence to what we ALREADY have! It's not like I'm burning to find new holy books like that's going to save me.

 

[ScottA]

In the church God established order thru obedience to hierarchical authority

1 Corinthians 14:33
For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments the abundant life of grace!



What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!


Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ...

You do not have the authority to cancel out one scripture with another, nor did Paul. Again, you misunderstand, you are confused.

It is men who are confused (by God) in their own speech. God is not the author of their own confusion, he is the cause. That is what it says. But that does not mean that God did/does not understand their speech. Men are confused, God is not. You demon-strate it.

What Paul referred to was the fact that in spite of the ways of men, God's ways are above that confusion.

But you, you have apparently embraced the confused ways of men by misunderstanding what Jesus said of Peter. He did not make Peter the Father, but explained the process of how He would build His church, which is a process by the Father, not by a person. The servant is not the Master. The church is built by the Father, not by men.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Have you noticed how you say things without knowing their veracity? "He just quoted from a traditional prophecy". You don't know that. This would be where "investigation" would come in. Not that I even think it's necessary per se--you don't even need to know the Bible very well to know God. Knowing God is eternal life not knowing the Bible. And in reading many books is weariness of the flesh. People need to know God by the Spirit and serve Him by the Spirit.

The testimony of history is that it appears to be a pseudepigraphal work, which was common in that time. This means the author attempted to lift information known about the original person and then re-create his work in his name and spirit. My assumption is that the quote Jude used of Enoch was an effort not to legitimize the book, but only the original Enoch and his original prophecy.

 

[GracePeace]

The testimony of history is that it appears to be a pseudepigraphal work, which was common in that time. This means the author attempted to lift information known about the original person and then re-create his work in his name and spirit. My assumption is that the quote Jude used of Enoch was an effort not to legitimize the book, but only the original Enoch and his original prophecy.

"assumption"

 

[theefaith]

Well it says false teachings spread like gangrene. Why haven't they been defrocked? Where the vaunted guidance of the Spirit? Would Paul have put up with them?! No! Isn't your boast that all Catholics say the same thing? Now you're saying you don't have that? Well that's the final straw I'm not converting to cstholicism! lol!

There is only one church founded by Christ church on Peter matt 16:18 Jn 10:16

 

[theefaith]

I'll go one further : to hell with ALL your Popes and ALL your pronouncements! There that's better!

And Christ who appointed them?

 

[theefaith]

None of the verses you quoted speak to the issue of sacramentalism. Try again.

Look it up a promise or sacred oath is a sacrament

 

[Wrangler]

There is only one church founded by Christ church on Peter matt 16:18 Jn 10:16

Your IDOLATRY is showing.

So, your theory is all these other denominations don’t follow Christ?

 

[theefaith]

You do not have the authority to cancel out one scripture with another, nor did Paul. Again, you misunderstand, you are confused.

It is men who are confused (by God) in their own speech. God is not the author of their own confusion, he is the cause. That is what it says. But that does not mean that God did/does not understand their speech. Men are confused, God is not. You demon-strate it.

What Paul referred to was the fact that in spite of the ways of men, God's ways are above that confusion.

But you, you have apparently embraced the confused ways of men by misunderstanding what Jesus said of Peter. He did not make Peter the Father, but explained the process of how He would build His church, which is a process by the Father, not by a person. The servant is not the Master. The church is built by the Father, not by men.

the one true church is built by Christ not the father Matt 16:18

 

[theefaith]

Your IDOLATRY is showing.

So, your theory is all these other denominations don’t follow Christ?

And are outside the church and the new covenant
Nothing more than sects and heretics

 

[ScottA]

the one true church is built by Christ not the father Matt 16:18

Quoting your own confusion only explains your confusion.

 

[theefaith]

Quoting your own confusion only explains your confusion.

what good is scripture if you don’t believe it?

Then tell me what is the true church?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Look it up a promise or sacred oath is a sacrament

I did look it up, but believe me when I say that I already knew what a sacrament is. I thought you might know also. But maybe not? For further research try the many Catholic Encyclopedia web sites.

 

[ScottA]

what good is scripture if you don’t believe it?

Then tell me what is the true church?

That's 2 questions:
1) It is not I who does not believe, but rather you who quoted Paul against the rest of scripture regarding confusion, manifesting the very confusion God himself has ordained. Which you have also done with Mt 16:18.

2) The "true church" is a spiritual house, not the works of men, but of the Father.

 

[Wrangler]

And are outside the church and the new covenant
Nothing more than sects and heretics

And proud of it! Proud to follow Christ. We have no desire to follow the oppresive agents you call the one true church.

 

[theefaith]

I did look it up, but believe me when I say that I already knew what a sacrament is. I thought you might know also. But maybe not? For further research try the many Catholic Encyclopedia web sites.

An outward sign

it’s not a bible study but a covenant

 

[theefaith]

That's 2 questions:
1) It is not I who does not believe, but rather you who quoted Paul against the rest of scripture regarding confusion, manifesting the very confusion God himself has ordained. Which you have also done with Mt 16:18.

2) The "true church" is a spiritual house, not the works of men, but of the Father.

What about this


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

 

[theefaith]

I did look it up, but believe me when I say that I already knew what a sacrament is. I thought you might know also. But maybe not? For further research try the many Catholic Encyclopedia web sites.

Lk 1:72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

sacrament

 

[theefaith]

And proud of it! Proud to follow Christ. We have no desire to follow the oppresive agents you call the one true church.

truth matters not! I guess?

 

[ScottA]

What about this


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

None of that cancels out what Jesus said about him building his church by the same means in which Peter came to know the truth of who Jesus was.

You're just looking at it all wrong, all through the eyes of men who did not hear what the Spirit said to the churches.