Sure, but if I want to inherit the promised land I have to be a Jew, right? If I were to believe your view is correct then I would be better off becoming a Jew now so I could inherit that promised land.
Babylon – The Great City - Jerusalem -Then and Today!
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tailgator
Well-Known Member
If you think you can force God to make you a ruler ,you go right ahead and try
Here’s the thing, I think believers such as myself are spiritual Jews and we have inherited the promised land. I don’t think you agree with me on that but I am a Christian who definitely does want to inherit the promised land.
Based on your view, what advice do you have for someone like me, who does want the promised land? Would you suggest I become a Jew?
You know your stuff then must had got around in many places...LOL indeed
tailgator
Well-Known Member
I didn't say you couldn't live in the promised land.
I said the Israelites who are killed for their testimony of Jesus and who did not worship the beast or it's image nor receive it's mark shall reign with Christ .
I would love to live in the promised land and I'm not saying I can't.But I will not be reigning over the nations such as myself in the promised land
To be honest here, I’m not convinced that you have enough faith in your own view to take the necessary steps that your view provides to insure inheritance in the promised land.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
I may not even be alive tomorrow.
Now how would I say I would spend the millinium in the promised land when I already know I wouldn't be resurrected in the first resurrection with the 144000.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
To be honest,I don't know if you want to go to Jerusalem and be beheaded for testifying of Jesus.
If you really feel you are one of the 144000 male virgins who follow the lamb,perhaps you should go.
@tailgator
@grafted branch
I am not Jewish and have no desire to inherit the promised land to the descendants of the 12 tribes. My desire is to live where ever God wants me to carry out His Will. Because I love Him.
@grafted branch
I am not Jewish and have no desire to inherit the promised land to the descendants of the 12 tribes. My desire is to live where ever God wants me to carry out His Will. Because I love Him.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Babylons time is running out.I expect it has about 4 years remaining.
news.yahoo.com
Iran can manufacture 6 nuclear weapons with newly enriched uranium, UN Atomic agency report says
A report by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) cautioned that the Islamic Republic of Iran is producing a large amount of uranium that could be used in six atomic bombs.
Alright Doug, let’s take a closer look at this. You have Jews inheriting one thing and Gentiles inheriting something else.
Colossians 1:12(NIV) and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light.
It appears to me that both Jews and Gentiles will receive the same inheritance.
Romans 11:17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
I would say being grafted in means the same thing as someone like Ruth becoming a Jew in to OT. Being grafted in means being a recipient of the promises.
Romans 11:21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
I would think the only way a Gentile would not partake of the promises is if they were broken off. Do you see Gentiles being broken off at some point?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I don't buy the dual meaning explanation at all. That seems like a cop out to me. It seems that when people are shown that something was not fulfilled in the past, they resort to the dual meaning or dual fulfillment explanation.
Where is there any indication in the text itself that Babylon should be understood as referring to ancient earthly Jerusalem and to a future version of Jerusalem? It's not there. I'm not buying this at all.
Jerusalem did not rule the kings of the earth, so why are you claiming that? You're taking the text too literally. It's not talking about a literal city sitting on seven literal hills. Revelation is primarily a book of symbolism, bu you have decided to interpret it as literally as possible, which is a common mistake that both preterists and futurists make. The seven heads of the beast are symbolized by seven mountains (it's not seven hills, it's seven mountains which symbolize kingdoms) that the beast sits on which aren't any more literal than the many waters that the woman Babylon sits on (Rev 17:1,15). The mountains represent historical kingdoms or world empires. Notice in Revelation 17:8 it says "one is". That was the Roman empire that existed at the time the book was written.
Rome ruled the known world at that time, not Jerusalem.
But, the beast and Babylon are not entities that only existed in that time period. They are spiritual entities, not earthly entities. Babylon is the exact spiritual opposite of the new Jerusalem.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Agree. Paul very clearly taught that Gentile believers are fellow heirs of God's promises with Jewish believers, but it seems that Douggg doesn't want to accept that for some reason.
Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
In Romans 11, in his metaphorical comparison, Paul is speaking about, by salvation, Gentiles are grafted into the Kingdom of God, while Jews who rejected salvation through Christ were broken off.
Roman 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
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In Romans 11:23-26, Paul indicates that the Jews, now (metaphorically) broken off from the Kingdom of God, will be grafted back into the Kingdom of God, when they turn to Jesus. That will happen in the middle of the seven years, in Revelation 12:10.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Paul was speaking about Gentiles becoming part of the Kingdom of God.
In 2Thessalonians2:3, Paul speaks about a coming falling away - from believing in Jesus as the messiah, implied. So any Christian, whether they be Jew or Gentile, should they turn away from believing that Jesus is the messiah and the gospel of salvation - they will be broken off from the Kingdom of God.
The falling away will happen in the days of the Antichrist.
Ok, what about a Jew today? Let’s say some has for the last 80 years denied Jesus and was by all accounts considered a Jew. If that person died today, would that person be grafted back in at some future point or would that person be permanently broken off?
To me it seems everyone who denies Christ is broken off and everyone who believes in Christ is grafted in, regardless of being Jew or Gentile. And that would be true until Christ returns in the future.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You are talking as if all Jews were broken off from the kingdom of God, but that is not the case. Read Romans 11 more carefully so that you stop missing the context. Paul made it clear that there was a remnant of saved Israelites in his day (Rom 11:5) and also that those who were broken off still had the opportunity to be saved, as evidenced by the fact that he said he wanted to lead some of them to salvation (Romans 11:11-14). Your doctrine postpones salvation for the Jews for at least 2,000 years, but scripture does not. God has wanted all Jews to be saved and has offered salvation to all Jews ever since the gospel first began to be preached starting in Jerusalem and in all of Israel before going out to the Gentile nations.
Being grafted in to the kingdom of God is not a corporate thing, either. It is an individual thing based on individual faith in Christ.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Nope. That person would just be unlucky to not live during the time when God will force salvation upon all of the Jews, according to dispensationalism.
I agree. But, what many don't understand is that even those Israelites who were blinded and broken off in Paul's day later were given the opportunity to be saved, which is why Paul wanted to help lead some of them to salvation (Romans 11:11-14). Dispensationalists postpone the salvation of the Jews for at least 2,000 years until some future time, but that contradicts many scriptures. They interpret Romans 11 out of context and take no care in making sure their interpretation of Romans 11 doesn't contradict any other scriptures. They are reckless with scripture.
I once heard Tovia Singer, a well known counter-missionary Jewish (Judaism) commentator say - "
a person is responsible for the truth he has been revealed."
I agree with the principle of his statement. If the Jew, in your hypothetical question, rejected Jesus and the gospel of salvation, assuming that Jew had been revealed the truth sufficiently in the eyes of God, but still rejected Jesus and the gospel of salvation, and died.... then, yes, that person will be permanently broke off, should he die in that state of unbelief.
Ok, I can agree with you on this point.
That being said, the OT promises are not meant for Jews, they are meant for Jews that accept Jesus as the Messiah. Would you agree with that statement?
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