attacking another denomination are included in this rule.

[amigo de christo]

Amen, so right. And the way of the world is not God's way.

And what is this way of the world , there is A WAY that seems right unto a man but leadeth only TO DEATH .
THEN there IS THE WAY , THE ONLY WAY , AS IN JESUS THE CHRIST YE MUST BELIEVE IN HIM , that leadeth to the FATHER .
the all inclusive have chosen a delusion and its end is and shall be the second death .
Let us be not as the many who grow daily under a lie spawned and birthed by the prince of lies and sold unto men
whose hearts and minds loveth the flesh .
Beware christendom , Beware lest their be in any of you an evil heart in departing from the faith
under the rainbow diverse umbrella of a gospel that DAMNS .
Do not heed the voice of wolves in wool who spin their wool and have made a diverse garment of MANY strange colors
For that garment IS NOT OF CHRIST JESUS . It is a broad garment
whose borders cry , WE save ourselves and by our works and by our own love we shall save ourselves .
BUT IT IS A LIE and its love is of the world and not of GOD .
HAD its love been of GOD its words had been of GOD and had agreed to the words of GOD and the gospel of GOD .
Had its love been of GOD , IT HAD POINTED TO THE ABSOLUTE DIRE NEED to repent and to beleive ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
ITs love leave false religoins in their darkness
its version of love leaves unrepentant sinners IN SIN . IT WILL NOT CORRECT
it will attack those who DO correct , who bring truth to expose its lie . And it has LED this people
into great darkness and upmost rebellion agaisnt GOD , HIS CHRIST , and the true saints who conform not to its version .

 

[amigo de christo]

Amen, so right. And the way of the world is not God's way.

Sister , i care not nor do i give a rip what anyone says about ya , You knows i loves ya . NOW HIT THE TRENCHES SISTER .

 

[Brakelite]

Where is humility and the fear of God in assuming one's church is "it" and all good with God?

The last church before Christ comes is Laodicean. We freely admit we are not exempt from that classification. The only true church? No. There are genuine Christians in every church, and not all Adventists will be ultimately in heaven. Church membership isn't a criteria for salvation.

In thinking their church organization is the one true church they fall into the same error as the RCC, making their church their god over them. Which in addition to violating the commandment of God, it makes it cultish. Where is humility and the fear of God in assuming one's church is "it" and all good with God?

I think if we were being honest, we would admit that we have witnessed the above in every church. But it doesn't mean the church system itself requires such an attitude from its members. It simple means some members are more parochial than others. I've seen the above in every pentecostal church I attended during the 15 years before I chose to become an adventist.
Idolise our church? I love it yes, and I know the adventist faith paradigm is very blessed to have been given much light and truth. Our issue with our own church is not that we think ourselves above or better than anyone else, but we absolutely do believe we have a unique message for this end time generation. A message no-one else is preaching.

 

[Brakelite]

If you fellas were as keen to discover what we actually do teach instead of firing bird-shot everywhere hoping something hits, I would suggest you watch some lectures on you tube. There are dozens of excellent presentations from a variety of adventist evangelists. I would recommend this one, it's comprehensive, it's thorough, and it isn't only about theology. It covers everything you need to know. It's a full series dine about 10 or so years ago. The titles will give you a good idea of the topic so you don't need to watch all of them. Just the ones that take your interest.
Amigo might like the one on ecumenism. Lisbeth perhaps the one tittled The Loud Cry.

(ENGLISH) TOTAL ONSLAUGHT - WALTER VEITH

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

youtube.com

 

[Lizbeth]

The last church before Christ comes is Laodicean. We freely admit we are not exempt from that classification. The only true church? No. There are genuine Christians in every church, and not all Adventists will be ultimately in heaven. Church membership isn't a criteria for salvation.

I think if we were being honest, we would admit that we have witnessed the above in every church. But it doesn't mean the church system itself requires such an attitude from its members. It simple means some members are more parochial than others. I've seen the above in every pentecostal church I attended during the 15 years before I chose to become an adventist.
Idolise our church? I love it yes, and I know the adventist faith paradigm is very blessed to have been given much light and truth. Our issue with our own church is not that we think ourselves above or better than anyone else, but we absolutely do believe we have a unique message for this end time generation. A message no-one else is preaching.

Yes, there are many whose churches and pastors are idols to them. God's word speaks of priests ruling by their own means and the people love to have it so. So they are both at fault according to the Lord, both the church leadership and the people. But it does seem the Lord is calling His people out of organized churches in this late hour. As I was waking up this morning it came to mind how the seven churches of Revelation, in particular those which the Lord has something "against", relate to the rest of that book (I don't think it ever occurred to me to wonder about that before) and especially with respect to Mystery Babylon. Only a remnant will be saved - and a remnant is what gets cut off from the end of the rest of the cloth. Only a remnant will overcome, not the churches as a whole. So it's necessary to be weaned from them to be taught of the LORD. The biggest part of the bolt stays behind to be handed over for judgment, sadly! The word of scripture is to come out of her....Retire, stay not! just before judgment falls.

Rachel weeping for her CHILDREN in Ramah. Jesus saying to the woman to weep not for me but weep for your CHILDREN because of the soon coming judgment that would befall them in 70 AD. Written for our example and admonition! Children are those who don't grow up and mature so they are susceptible to every wind of doctrine and error and are not on a path of crucifying the flesh. It's a very sad reality as we near the end.

 

[Lizbeth]

If you fellas were as keen to discover what we actually do teach instead of firing bird-shot everywhere hoping something hits, I would suggest you watch some lectures on you tube. There are dozens of excellent presentations from a variety of adventist evangelists. I would recommend this one, it's comprehensive, it's thorough, and it isn't only about theology. It covers everything you need to know. It's a full series dine about 10 or so years ago. The titles will give you a good idea of the topic so you don't need to watch all of them. Just the ones that take your interest.
Amigo might like the one on ecumenism. Lisbeth perhaps the one tittled The Loud Cry.

(ENGLISH) TOTAL ONSLAUGHT - WALTER VEITH

Share your videos with friends, family, and the world

youtube.com

Babylon is falling, is falling, yes. Two fold double judgment? But Revelation is highly allegorical. I believe "nations" in Revelation 18 is in the same sense it is often used elsewhere in scripture....in the sense of not being Israel.....it is the nations of those who believe...ie, the mostly Gentile churches. Kings of the earth.....earth is often a reference to the flesh....fleshly kings (leadership) in the churches...who rule by their own means. As in the scripture that says you have set up kings and princes who I know not. Revelation is a word to the church, not to the unbelieving world. God is concerned with HIS kingdom, with speaking to and correcting and warning His church and people. I think the only word that goes to the unbelieving really while they are still unbelieving, is "repent and believe".

 

[Lizbeth]

He whose love cometh of GOD shall rejoice in TRUTH . charity rejoices IN TRUTH .
He whose love is of the world does not rejoice in TRUTH but rather loveth a lie .
He whose love cometh of GOD rejoices in the ONE TRUE GOSPEL
but he whose love is of the world rejoices in a broad path sin accepting unbelief accepting gospel , IN A LIE .
The love that cometh of the world rejects the truth of GOD and rather desires
a god who promises life but offers that which pleases their flesh .
The love of the world makes the path to GOD very broad , very diverse , and it will
honor that which GOD does not , for it honors sins .
IT will honor that which the carnal heart and mind of man does honor .
The carnal mind is enmity with GOD and cannot be subject unto the things of GOD .
YE MUST be born again .
Those whose faith be in CHRIST JESUS and they love and embrace His words , are THE BORN again of GOD .
The rest , who twist scrips , omit the docrtrine of GOD , omit the gospel of GOD
have a delusion as their meat . For they rejected the love of the truth whereby they could have been saved .
Beware lest that come upon you which was written
Behold ye despisers , I WORK a work in your day ,a work that ye shall in no wise BELIEVE though it be declared unto you .
Harden not your hearts .

Amen. Exactly brother. Those who received not a love of the truth...well, unfortunately they are sent a strong delusion. Seems to be the love of other things (self, flesh, the world etc) above the truth that causes people to reject the truth instead of embracing it.

 

[Lizbeth]

firing bird-shot everywhere hoping something hits,

That is not my attitude Brakelite. There are serious problems with Adventism. Sabbath keeping is one of them...because Paul explicitly instructed the church to leave that between the individual and God and also explicitly said we are not to let anyone judge us (ie, rule over us) in that matter. The other elephant in the room of course is Ellen White. Prophetic words are meant to be like fresh manna, not to be bound in a book and stored up for a later day, becoming a second bible or idol.....when we do that, it becomes a dead and rotten thing, spiritually speaking, because we are not trusting in God but trusting in that manna instead. We have the word of God which is alive and active, and we have the Spirit of God who is alive to feed us and speak to us a timely word at any time He wills. The other thing is, we are told to let the other prophets weigh and test the words, because those with seer and prophecy gifts can go off track like anyone and sometimes need reminding or correcting like anyone. We don't just accept everything that comes out of someone's mouth or pen or keyboard just because they have a gifting. Or they can speak a true word, but have a wrong understanding of what God was saying or showing.

Not to mention that denominationalism is not of God....and actually I believe the "forming" of a denomination in itself is of the spirit of Mystery Babylon:

2Co 11:3-4

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

 

[amigo de christo]

That is not my attitude Brakelite. There are serious problems with Adventism. Sabbath keeping is one of them...because Paul explicitly instructed the church to leave that between the individual and God and also explicitly said we are not to let anyone judge us (ie, rule over us) in that matter. The other elephant in the room of course is Ellen White. Prophetic words are meant to be like fresh manna, not to be bound in a book and stored up for a later day, becoming a second bible or idol.....when we do that, it becomes a dead and rotten thing, spiritually speaking, because we are not trusting in God but trusting in that manna instead. We have the word of God which is alive and active, and we have the Spirit of God who is alive to feed us and speak to us a timely word at any time He wills. The other thing is, we are told to let the other prophets weigh and test the words, because those with seer and prophecy gifts can go off track like anyone and sometimes need reminding or correcting like anyone. We don't just accept everything that comes out of someone's mouth or pen or keyboard just because they have a gifting. Or they can speak a true word, but have a wrong understanding of what God was saying or showing.

Not to mention that denominationalism is not of God....and actually I believe the "forming" of a denomination in itself is of the spirit of Mystery Babylon:

2Co 11:3-4

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

have you never read what they say concering investigative judgment . That is a most deadly doctrine .
Get ol brakelite to bring that message up and ask him to explain that mess to ya .
Two times the milerites set dates . ELLEN WHITE sat under mr miller and loved that man like her father .
Now the last time they missed the mark and JESUS did NOT COME .
Rather than repenting , OL ELLIE began what is known as INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT .
What she implied was that miller had the location OF JESUS wrong , not the date , but the location .
SHE CLIAMS JESUS actually DID something on that date within the heavenly realm and also investigative judgment began .
That is one deadly and super dangerous doctrine right there . SHE , rather than admitting MILLER was dead wrong
MADE EXCUSE . that is NOT A GOOD SIGN SISTER . not only had she set under and embraced a date setter
WHEN JESUS DID NOT COME , later she invents something . THAT IS A REAL BAD SIGN . REAL bad .

 

[Marvelloustime]

have you never read what they say concering investigative judgment . That is a most deadly doctrine .
Get ol brakelite to bring that message up and ask him to explain that mess to ya .
Two times the milerites set dates . ELLEN WHITE sat under mr miller and loved that man like her father .
Now the last time they missed the mark and JESUS did NOT COME .
Rather than repenting , OL ELLIE began what is known as INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT .
What she implied was that miller had the location OF JESUS wrong , not the date , but the location .
SHE CLIAMS JESUS actually DID something on that date within the heavenly realm and also investigative judgment began .
That is one deadly and super dangerous doctrine right there . SHE , rather than admitting MILLER was dead wrong
MADE EXCUSE . that is NOT A GOOD SIGN SISTER . not only had she set under and embraced a date setter
WHEN JESUS DID NOT COME , later she invents something . THAT IS A REAL BAD SIGN . REAL bad .

 

[Lizbeth]

have you never read what they say concering investigative judgment . That is a most deadly doctrine .
Get ol brakelite to bring that message up and ask him to explain that mess to ya .
Two times the milerites set dates . ELLEN WHITE sat under mr miller and loved that man like her father .
Now the last time they missed the mark and JESUS did NOT COME .
Rather than repenting , OL ELLIE began what is known as INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT .
What she implied was that miller had the location OF JESUS wrong , not the date , but the location .
SHE CLIAMS JESUS actually DID something on that date within the heavenly realm and also investigative judgment began .
That is one deadly and super dangerous doctrine right there . SHE , rather than admitting MILLER was dead wrong
MADE EXCUSE . that is NOT A GOOD SIGN SISTER . not only had she set under and embraced a date setter
WHEN JESUS DID NOT COME , later she invents something . THAT IS A REAL BAD SIGN . REAL bad .

I hadn't heard of it brother. Sounds like that Mr. Miller was an idol to Ellen White. When anyone or anything is an idol in our hearts we'll make excuses and justify them and twist things rather than just realize and admit they are wrong and to stop idolizing.

 

[amigo de christo]

I hadn't heard of it brother. Sounds like that Mr. Miller was an idol to Ellen White. When anyone or anything is an idol in our hearts we'll make excuses and justify them and twist things rather than just realize and admit they are wrong and to stop idolizing.

Oh by the way thanks for that reminder you gave me earlier today . I seen a certain like on a certain post i had long ago written .
It reminded me dear sister . That those who teach falsehoods must be exposed .

 

[Brakelite]

have you never read what they say concering investigative judgment . That is a most deadly doctrine .
Get ol brakelite to bring that message up and ask him to explain that mess to ya .
Two times the milerites set dates . ELLEN WHITE sat under mr miller and loved that man like her father .
Now the last time they missed the mark and JESUS did NOT COME .
Rather than repenting , OL ELLIE began what is known as INVESTIGATIVE JUDGMENT .
What she implied was that miller had the location OF JESUS wrong , not the date , but the location .
SHE CLIAMS JESUS actually DID something on that date within the heavenly realm and also investigative judgment began .
That is one deadly and super dangerous doctrine right there . SHE , rather than admitting MILLER was dead wrong
MADE EXCUSE . that is NOT A GOOD SIGN SISTER . not only had she set under and embraced a date setter
WHEN JESUS DID NOT COME , later she invents something . THAT IS A REAL BAD SIGN . REAL bad .

I wonder how serious you are in searching out the truth? Or are you only interested in firing pot shots at things you don't understand.

 

[Brakelite]

Thing is this. I know Him in Whom I believe. The Adventist church doesn't hide their doctrines . And everything associated with their beliefs are out there on numerous platforms, including dedicated Web sites run by independent ministries, all freely available for anyone to peruse and discover what we really teach. Yeah, I know. Some people say that we teach one thing in public but another in private. Or vice versa. That's just desperation. Not only are there videos available, but books, articles, a and churches in almost every country in the world quite happy to sit down and study the scriptures of you ask them. Yep. Very cultish. So I'm not afraid of your accusations and criticisms. No adventist I've met has claimed they belong to a perfect church. Churches have people. That right there is the first hurdle.
But your criticisms are welcome. We can always improve. People are easy targets because everyone knows there is no such thing as a perfect person. I mean, churches are hospitals for the redemption of sinners right?
Your criticisms against Adventists' doctrine however are criticisms against Scripture. Oh, you don't agree? You think our teachings aren't scriptural? How do you know? You say this is a problem. That is a problem. This is dangerous, and that's unacceptable. But you don't have any explanation why, nor do you have an alternative. What I see is a lot of emotional reaction against stuff you really haven't given any real time to study. You may have watched a video or two from our enemies, and thought yay, yay, like a football fan watching his favourite team and looking for any positive to help confirm his biases. But how long, and how deeply, have you actually studied our teachings? In other words, sat down and dissected them and been intellectually honest about mounting a real scriptural defense against them? We all do that with JWs, the Mormons, the Catholics, and Muslims right? But the Sabbath? The investigative judgement? Where's the intellectual honesty regarding them? Oh, Paul cancelled the Sabbath because he said no one should judge you on it. Really? Did he say that about the weekly Sabbath? And the entire pharisee population of the middle east rose up in condemnation of Paul for discarding the Sabbath right? Uh, no. They didn't. They had lots to say about circumcision, but I guess they didn't care that all the Jewish Christians met on Sunday, or just "rested in Jesus". And 1844. William Miller preached for years on that date, and no one could criticise his biblical reasoning of the prophecy. The date of 1844 is rock solid. So you don't like the idea of God judging you before He comes? So find an alternative. What was 1844 all about then?

 

[Lizbeth]

Bringing some scriptures for us to consider. This is not to judge or condemn anyone, but it is the truth and word of God for all our good, that we may learn and grow and have it upon our hearts:

Rom 14:1-7

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.



Col 2:14-17 (the whole chapter, but too long to post the whole thing)

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Let no man (or church group) therefore judge (rule/govern) you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (ie, not of ordinances and letter of the Law)



WE NEED TO REALLY GET HOLD OF THIS (as the Lord was gracious to open my eyes to it) - THESE SCRIPTURES BELOW ARE TELLING US THAT THE LORD IS NOT EVER GOING TO REVEAL THE TIMING OF HIS COMING, PERIOD. NOT TO ANY MAN, WOMAN, CHILD OR EVEN ANGEL. ANYONE TRYING TO SET DATES IS GOING AGAINST THE WORDS OF JESUS AND THEY WILL NEVER GET IT RIGHT:



Mat 24:35-39

Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, (ie, rapture of the saints – the day of the Lord is the same day the saints are taken up and out of the way of the wrath)

And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.



Mat 25:13

Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.



Mar 13:31-37

Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

 

[St. SteVen]

Thing is this. I know Him in Whom I believe. The Adventist church doesn't hide their doctrines . And everything associated with their beliefs are out there on numerous platforms, including dedicated Web sites run by independent ministries, all freely available for anyone to peruse and discover what we really teach. Yeah, I know. Some people say that we teach one thing in public but another in private. Or vice versa. That's just desperation. Not only are there videos available, but books, articles, a and churches in almost every country in the world quite happy to sit down and study the scriptures of you ask them. Yep. Very cultish. So I'm not afraid of your accusations and criticisms. No adventist I've met has claimed they belong to a perfect church. Churches have people. That right there is the first hurdle.

Thanks for your post.
Some of my closest friends on this forum are Adventists.
Even though I am an outspoken debater against Sabbatarianism.

Here's a scorcher.
Does the inclusion of the Sabbath prove that the Ten Commandments were for Israel alone?

However, I do not discount Adventists as some do. (though I did for a period decades ago)
I accept them as my brothers and sisters in Christ. (now)

I basically feel the same way about JWs and Mormons. (LDS)
Though, doctrinal concerns are bigger with those two.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

WE NEED TO REALLY GET HOLD OF THIS (as the Lord was gracious to open my eyes to it) - THESE SCRIPTURES BELOW ARE TELLING US THAT THE LORD IS NOT EVER GOING TO REVEAL THE TIMING OF HIS COMING, PERIOD. NOT TO ANY MAN, WOMAN, CHILD OR EVEN ANGEL. ANYONE TRYING TO SET DATES IS GOING AGAINST THE WORDS OF JESUS AND THEY WILL NEVER GET IT RIGHT:

So... you would trash a whole denomination of believers over this?



[

 

[amigo de christo]

So... you would trash a whole denomination of believers over this?

View attachment 50705

[

She aint condenming , she is simply reminding . As even you yourself said that you debate etc .
To remind , rebuke , correct , warn , is not condeming .
To even seperate company from those who wont heed is not condemning .
The only ones who condemn are those who reject and they condemn themselves .
Its not the ones that follow the pattern of GOD and correct and warn that do the condeming
or trashing . ITS NEEDFUL . very NEEDFUL .

 

[Lizbeth]

So... you would trash a whole denomination of believers over this?

View attachment 50705

[

Who said anything about trashing people...that is in YOUR head, not mine. I sure will "trash" lies though and any organization that is leading souls astray......we all should do that.....we are told in scripture to EXPOSE the works of darkness....and that is for the good of people/souls who God loves, not to trash them.

If anyone can't tell the difference between the washing of the water of the word (washing one another's feet with the word) and trashing people, it is clear they are labouring under a deception. Very common problem these days - we know it as political correctness, but it is actually a spirit that has taken their minds captive and corrupting them.

 

[amigo de christo]

Who said anything about trashing people...that is in YOUR head, not mine. I sure will "trash" lies though and any organization that is leading souls astray......we all should do that.....we are told in scripture to EXPOSE the works of darkness....and that is for the good of people/souls who God loves, not to trash them.

If anyone can't tell the difference between the washing of the water of the word (washing one another's feet with the word) and trashing people, it is clear they are labouring under a deception. Very common problem these days - we know it as political correctness, but it is actually a spirit that has taken their minds captive and corrupting them.

To the trenches dear sister . When o when is christendom gonna figure out
that its due to the silencing of warning and exposure of that which is evil , THAT THE Churches have TANKED and collapsed .
They are now weighed down with much sin and can hardly even lift their arm up for the weight of that bondage .
And when they do manage to raise an arm up , IT SEEMS to have a diverse flag in it .
When on when are the peoples gonna return to the bible for themselves . TO learn and to grow
and to no longer be taken captive by clever and decietful men .