Are only 144,000 saved? (Rev 14:1)
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VCO
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Not my HEAD, that KNOWING HIM comes from the deepest Meaning from My Heart.
I KNOW, the Holy Spirit is in my HEART, That is Not Head Knowledge that is HEART KNOWLEDGE, and Jesus is In my HEART TOO, He guided me through the Prison Ministry. Actually, the Holy Spirit Gave me what to say in every Sermon I delivered. It is a strange Trust in HIM, when you want to take notes on yourself. It goes way deeper than Just whatever is in my HEAD.
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face2face
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I get your passionate about what you think you know, or been led to believe, but if what you say is false, its not the HS placing this error into your heart, its poor reading of His Word and a lack of skill on your part. Revelation 14:1-5 is a vision of what will take place at a future time when those who have God's thinking mentally sealed with His Name (in their foreheads) will truimp with Christ over Israels enemies, These believers will pour out judgement on the Apostate Church and the Nations who oppose them and bring peace to an age which Christ and the redeemed will rule in righteousness. Rev 14 is highly symbolic.... but speaks to actual events! - you either know this, or you are like the JW's who create all types of fanciful notions of people going to Heaven and believe 144,000 virgins are actually standing with a literal lamb on mount Zion, all of which is ludicrous and shows the ignorance of their teachers!
F2F
VCO
Active Member
Believe what you want to believe, I don't have time to waste on this foolishness.
Bye.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
That means the rulership over Gods chosen, not the actual throne. The kingdom of heaven is already established. It occurred here at Rev 6:2 when Jesus got his crown.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
The remaining bride of Christ= little flock get changed in the twinkling of an eye during the tribulation and brought to heaven to sit on thrones--- Only the great crowd get Matt 5:5-- bible reality.
face2face
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VCO
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No, I do not think you know what you are talking about. I am an evangelical style of Christian. Dr. John MacArthur, Dr. Ed Young, Dr. Charles Stanley, and Dr. Chuck Swindoll, were my main disciples during my Spiritual Youth years.
Yes, so many times, and I sometimes will just refer you to the Page. I have been a Born Again Christian since the last 2 days on 1977. Prior to that I was raised in a church, and only thought I was a Christian. But I NEVER KNEW HIM, just about HIM. I believe that makes me a Spirit LED, Spirit Taught, Spirit Indwelt, Spiritual Responsible, Immersed in the Spiritual Body of Christ, by the Holy Spirit, and HE in me, a true Christian, not someone who just takes a position on a Pew once in awhile. Does that make me Perfect? NO. But I believe a true Christian is those that Let the Holy Spirit Mature them in Christ. We will not be Perfect, until we get the Glorified Body at the Rapture.
Quote:
Revelation
14:1 The Lamb is seen standing on Mount Zion with one hundred and forty-four thousand followers, all of whom were sealed on their foreheads. This looks forward to the time when the Lord Jesus will come back to the earth and stand in Jerusalem with this group of believers from each of the twelve tribes of Israel. The one hundred and forty-four thousand are the same ones mentioned in chapter 7. They are now about to enter the kingdom of Christ.
14:2, 3 John hears music coming from heaven like the voice of many waters, and like the sound of loud thunder, and like harpists playing their harps. Only the hundred and forty-four thousand could learn that song.
14:4, 5 They are described as virgins, those who have not defiled themselves with women. They had kept themselves free from the terrible idolatry and immorality of this period and followed the Lamb in unquestioning obedience and devotion. Pentecost says, "They are called 'the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb', that is, they are the first of the harvest of the tribulation period that will come into the millennium to populate the millennial earth." They did not accept the lie of the Antichrist—that a mere man was to be worshiped. They were blameless as far as their steadfast confession of Christ was concerned.
Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.
END QUOTE:
QUOTE:
A Summary (14:1-5)
After the depressing news of the ongoing persecutions of God's people by the unholy trinity, John's readers need another word of encouragement and warning. Chapter 14 therefore employs seven "voices" to relate again the warnings and promises of heaven. First is another vision of the 144,000. The 144,000, as before, are the full number of the people of God. It is certainly a reference to Christians, for they "were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb."
Using the common biblical imagery of sexual immorality as a reference to idolatry, John called these followers of the Lamb "blameless." That is, they did not "defile themselves" with the beast. They are the men and women who have been faithful in their worship of the one true God through Jesus Christ and have not been seduced by the Satanic deceptions of the first beast and his ally, the false prophet. They will be rescued and taken to heaven's throne, where with one voice they will sing a new song of salvation.
Holman Concise Bible Commentary.
END QUOTE:
face2face
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Dear Taken,
You said:
Jesus has informed us Christ shall BLESS WITH SALVATION ALL of mankind that BELIEVES…..BEFORE their BODILY DEATH.
There are no verses which teach is false doctrine of the apostate church.
Scripture only teaches that a person will not be a "heir" or First Fruit of Christ's harvest of mankind if Christ does not save them before they physically die.
And those who are blessed to be saved early have been chosen for this honor from the foundation of the world:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Those not chosen will be saved at the end of the final age. They will suffer the loss of being a First Fruit but they will still be saved at the consummation of the ages:
1Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Cor 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
The "consummation" occurs at the end of the final age when Christ and the Elect will make this call to them:
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
After the last person is saved, this verse will be testified to be true:
1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
The Father sent Christ to save the world:
1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
Why do you believe Christ will fail?
Don't you know that mankind's "will" is nothing for Christ to overcome?
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Christ was sent by His Father to save mankind and He will not lose a person. If Christ lost even one person, His work would not give the Father glory:
Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
You have been taught the teachings of Satan through his ministers in the apostate church which says that Christ will not only fail to save us all, but will instead torment in literal fire most of mankind for all eternity. Christ would never do such a thing. This is the "another gospel" Paul warned us about:
2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
You said:
The number 144,000 is express Knowledge revealed, regarding the express First Fruits, or otherWISE, the Wisdom, that the First Believers IN the Savior of ManKIND, WERE a specific portion “out of” Gods ELECT ISRAEL, and WERE the FIRST SAVED, and that specific portion “out of” Gods ELECT, were EXPRESSLY, 12 thousand men, “out of” Each of the 12 Tribes of Gods Elect ISRAEL.
The book of Revelation is presented in spiritual symbols which have meanings which are different from what man's wisdom teaches (Rev 1:1, 1Cor 2:13).
The number 144,000 is a spiritual symbol which represents the early portion of the harvest of mankind. They are chosen and blessed for this honor and are the only ones whom Christ is saving in this present age. They are the only ones who will "keep the sayings of the prophecy of this book" (Rev 22:7). The First Fruits consist of both the Jewish Elect and the Gentile Elect. Everyone else will have to wait until the end of the final age for their free gift of salvation.
Your understanding of scripture is "carnal" and is not "spiritual". The truth of scripture is taught in the spiritual language of Christ. To understand this language, Christ must come to us and pour out the Latter Rain which will heal our spiritual blindness. Only then will Christ (as the Word of God) be revealed to a person.
You said:
Yet, so also are the NON-BELIEVERS called to stand before the JUDGE….(not His Throne)….and receive their “Sentence”, according to their own Freewill Choices, and the “EVIDENCE” in Gods Books, of “their recorded Freewill Choices”.
Mankind has no free will ability to accept Jesus as Lord:
1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
To make the decision to accept Jesus as Lord, Christ must come to a person FIRST (without their asking or permission) and give them the Holy Spirit. This is how Christ prepares a person's heart to make the confession of faith. After Christ gives a person the Spirit, they can no longer reject Him.
Mankind's supposed free will ability to accept Jesus as Lord is a lie from Satan. Because mankind is saved only by the "works" of Christ, it is SOLELY up to Christ WHEN a person is saved. In this age, Christ only comes to those who have been chosen and blessed for this honor.
For that reason, no man has anything to boast about concerning their salvation:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
When a person professes a belief in the false Doctrine of Free Will, it proclaims that the believer has a "works" based belief system. This is the false pathway to salvation and is called the crooked way. Because Satan teaches this false pathway of "works", Satan is called the crooked serpent.
The straight pathway is the only way a person can be saved and that pathway is by faith ALONE. The Doctrine of Free Will mixes "works" with faith. When a believer mixes "works" and faith, they commit the sin that leads to death. This is how Satan's deceptions kill the saints and is how the apostate church was formed.
Joe
VCO
Active Member
No, but could be part of it. The Beast with 10 Heads, most likely a Political ruler of 10 nations. Now this is pure speculation. IF A POLITICAL DICTATOR, rose in popularity and took over the E.U.; you would have the rise of the old Roman Empire. It would not surprise me if that one ruler would want to take over E.U. and large number of the E.U. members Would bail out of the European Union. So would there be 10 nations that chose to stay with the E.U. ? ? ? Sure it could be a TEN Nation Confederacy of Muslim Nations too ? ? ?
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VCO
Active Member
Maybe you were asking for a doctrinal Statement of Faith. Here is one that I can agree with 100%.
I am a Non-Denominational Evangelical Christian
No that is not the same as Un-Churched Christion, it means our Church is non-Denominational, Evangelical Type.
I Chose to Get Dr. Charles Stanley as an example of Evangelical Statement of Faith. Some would say, I thought he as a Baptist? He is, but he is an Evangelical Baptist.
Statement of Faith
This doctrinal statement reflects the broad, mainstream, conservative evangelical tradition which is consistent with the teachings of the Bible and which has stood the test of history and experience. We specifically affirm the following doctrinal truths:
- The Scriptures
We believe that the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God and that men of God “were moved by the Holy Spirit” to write the very words of Scripture. The Bible is therefore without error (inerrant) in its original manuscripts. God has supernaturally preserved the Bible, and it is the sole and final authority for faith and life, providing encouragement, guidance, comfort and instruction for training in righteousness (2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:20-21). - The Godhead (Trinity)
We believe in one true God eternally existing in three distinct persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) each of Whom is fully and equally God; possesses all of the divine nature and attributes, and is totally worthy of our worship and service (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; John 1:14, John 10:30; 2 Cor. 13:14). - God the Father
We believe that God the Father is the first person of the Trinity and is the eternal, unchanging all-powerful, all-knowing, all-wise, all-loving, completely just and perfectly holy, sovereign Ruler and Sustainer of the universe. He is the Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and the Father of all true believers (Gen. 1:1; Eph. 4:6; John 1:12-13, John 5:19-21, John 17:1-5; Isa. 40:21-28, Isa. 43:10-13, Isa. 46:8-11; Rom. 8:14-16). - God the Son
We believe that Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity and is the only begotten eternal Son of God Who became flesh to reveal God to man, to fulfill prophecy, and to become the Savior of the lost world. In becoming man Jesus did not cease in any way to be God so that He is fully God and fully man inseparably united in one person forever. Jesus was miraculously conceived by the Holy Spirit; born of the Virgin Mary; lived a sinless life; died on the cross as the substitutionary, all-sufficient atoning sacrifice for all of the sins of all men of all time; was buried; bodily rose from the dead; physically ascended into heaven in His glorified, resurrected body; is seated at the right hand of the Father performing His ministry of intercession; will return in the air to claim His bride the church; and will come again to earth in bodily form, personally and visibly, to conclude human history and consummate God’s eternal plan by executing judgment and ushering in His Millennial Kingdom reign to be followed by the eternal state (John 1:1,14, John 1:18; John 3:16; Luke 1:30-35; Phil. 2:5-8; Col. 2:3,9; Mark 10:45; Acts 2:22-24; John 1:29; Rom. 3:25-26; Heb. 10:5-14; 1 Pet. 2:24, 1 Pet. 3:18; John 20:20; Phil. 3:20-21; Heb. 1:3; Rom. 8:34; 1 John 2:1; Acts 1:11; Heb. 9:28; 1 Thes. 4:13-18; 2 Thes. 2:7; Matt. 24:44; Rev. 19:11-21; Rev. 21-22). - God the Holy Spirit
We believe that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity Who specially came into the world on the day of Pentecost to glorify Christ and to enable men to appropriate the salvation wrought by Christ. He is the primary agent for the conviction of sin and for regeneration. Simultaneously with salvation, the Holy Spirit imparts new life, baptizes the believer into the body of Christ (His church), permanently indwells the believer, and securely seals the believer unto the day of redemption. The Holy Spirit fills (directs and controls) those believers who are yielded to Him, enables believers to bear fruit, and empowers believers to live a life free from sin’s dominion. We also believe that the Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts to believers for the purpose of edifying the church in accordance with the teachings of scripture (1 Cor. 13:8, 1 Cor. 14:22; John 16:7-8; 1 Cor. 6:19, 1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:13-14, Eph. 4:30; Gal. 5:16-17, Gal. 22-23; Rom. 8:5-13; 1 Pet. 4:10-11; Rom. 12:3-8). - Man
We believe that man was created in the image of God by direct act of God and did not come into being as the result of evolution. Man was created to glorify God, worship and serve Him, and have fellowship with Him. Man fell through sin by disobeying God, thus incurring both physical and spiritual death, which alienated him from God. Man’s nature was thus corrupted and he is utterly lost, “dead in trespasses and sins,” and totally incapable of saving himself and coming back into right relationship with God by his own merit or effort (Gen. 1:26, Gen. 2:6,17, Gen. 3:17-24; Isa. 59:1-2; Rom. 3:9-19,23, Rom. 5:8; Luke 18:26-27; Eph. 2:13). - Satan
We believe that Satan is the instigator of evil and a real spirit being, not simply the personification of evil. He is a fallen angel who, under the sovereign permission of God, has been given temporary rulership of the earth. He was utterly defeated at the cross, but the execution of his judgment has been postponed by God until after the Millennial Kingdom when he will be cast into the eternal lake of fire. In the meantime, he deceives the world and seeks to establish his counterfeit kingdom on earth to discredit and blaspheme God and to tempt, accuse, attack and destroy believers. He can be resisted by the believer through faith and reliance on the power of the Holy Spirit (Gen. 3:1-5; Isa. 14:12-17; Ezek. 28:11-19; Job 1-2; 1 John 5:19; 2 Cor. 11:14; 1 Tim. 3:6; 1 Pet. 5:8-9; James 4:7; Rev. 12:9, Rev. 20:1-3, Rev. 7-10). - Salvation
We believe that the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross provides the sole basis for forgiveness of sins and salvation, which is the free gift of God’s grace. Salvation is effected by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit and cannot be secured by man’s works or personal merit. Salvation is only appropriated by a person placing his faith in the finished work of Christ. Repentance is a turning toward God and away from sin and is a part of but not separate from believing faith. “The Gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes” and those who receive Jesus Christ by faith are born again, have their sins forgiven, become children of God, are a new creation in Christ, and “are sealed by the Holy spirit unto the day of redemption” being kept by the power of God (Eph. 1:7:13-14; John 1:12-13, John 3:1-7, John 14-16; 2 Cor. 5:17; Rom. 1:16, Rom. 10:9-10; Eph. 2:8-10; Rom. 8:14-17, Rom. 31-39; John 10:27-29, Rom. 14:6; Acts 26:20; 1 Pet. 1:3-5). - The Christian Life
We believe that every Christian should live for Christ and not for himself and should, by the power of the indwelling Spirit, allow Christ to manifest His life through him to God’s glory. By ever increasing obedience to the Word of God, each believer should mature and progressively become more like Jesus. In the power of the Spirit, each believer should live a holy life; not fulfill the lusts of the flesh; exercise his spiritual gifts to build up the body of Christ; witness for Christ; be personally involved in making disciples to fulfill the great commission; perform good works and bear fruit to the glory of God (Gal. 2:20; 1 Pet. 1:15-16, 1 Pet. 2:11; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Rom. 6:11-13; Eph. 2:10, Eph. 4:11-12, Eph. 4:22-24; 1 Pet. 4:10-11; Acts 1:8; Matt. 28:18-20; Col. 1:10; John 15:8,16).
Taken
Well-Known Member
Jesus has informed us Christ shall BLESS WITH SALVATION ALL of mankind that BELIEVES…..BEFORE their BODILY DEATH.
AND?
Jesus informed…..
Christ SHALL bless with Salvation…
“ALL,” ANY, OF mankind………
“THAT” “IF” “DOES” “WILL”
“BELIEVE”…
“BEFORE their BODILY DEATH”.
You are unnecessarily trying to correct what I said, with your words, that is saying the same thing I said…
VCO
Active Member
The Problem is many of mankind lowered HIS meaning of Believes from a True LOVE relationship in the Heart to:
an acknowledgement of the facts about JESUS in the Head, thinking that Saved them.
Matthew 7:13-23 (ESV)
13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction,
and those who enter by it are many.
14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17 So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit.
18 A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,
but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. *
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name,
and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
That ‘I never knew you; is what HE MEANT by BELIEVES. It is an inner LOVE relationship, were as you, out of Pure Love,
willing Give HIM control of yourself forever.
Dear Taken,
The scriptures which I posted to NOT support your statement. Go back and read them again.
Where are your scriptures which say salvation is limited to this age?
God's Word only says that being saved as a First First (the Elect) is limited to this age. These people are blessed by God and CHOSEN by Him for this honor. They are only the First Fruits of His harvest and are not the full harvest as you suppose.
Those who are not saved by Christ in this age will be resurrected to judgment. After they have "paid the last penny", Christ will save them:
Luke 12:59 I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.”
Even the chief priests who crucified Christ will be eventually saved:
Mat 21:31 Which of the two was obeying his father?" They replied, "The first, of course." Then Jesus explained his meaning: "I assure you, corrupt tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the Kingdom of God before you do.
The salvation of all mankind is not a matter of "if", it is only a matter of "when". Most of mankind will have to wait with the Chief Priests to receive their salvation which will occur at the end of the final age.
Also, the judgment of Christ is a necessary component of salvation. That is why Christ longed to start that process of judgment upon the earth.
Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire (the symbol for judgment), and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.
Luke 12:49 “I came to send fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!
Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
Jer 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.
Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.
All mankind must be judged so that they can be "converted". The old vessel must be destroyed so that the new vessel can be made:
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Mankind has no ability to save themselves or to make a confession of faith unless Christ gives them the Holy Spirit beforehand. Christ is the Savior and He alone controls the timing of each person's salvation. That is what scripture says and that is why Paul said that no person can boast about their own salvation. Mankind's salvation is truly a gift from God and Christ has a plan to give us all this gift. The Elect are First Fruits and are saved first in this age. The rest of mankind will be saved at the end of the final age when Christ will bring in His full harvest of mankind.
We must wait on the Lord to do all that He said He will do and He won't rest until it is accomplished in "due time".
1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Joe
Taken
Well-Known Member
The WORDS I posted and the WORDS you posted have the SAME MEANING.
I do not know YOUR understanding of “this age”…
Scripture reveals….IN THESE LAST DAYS…(not the last days)….God SENT his Word in the likeness AS a man, to REVEAL to men, Gods TRUTH……AND…Offer men (according to Gods ORDER and WAY)….A WAY for WILLING MEN to GIVE their BODY as a LIVING SACRIFICE and RECEIVE Gods OFFERING of Salvation BEFORE THEIR PHYSICAL BODILY DEATH….by and through Agreeing to be CRUCIFIED WITH JESUS.
Heb 1:
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
THESE last days BEGAN when JESUS was SENT to EARTH.
THESE last day SHALL CONTINUE until “THE LAST DAYS” are fulfilled.
Rom 12:
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Scripture is ALL TRUE…however NOT ALL SCRIPTURE APPLES to EVERY individual man.
Dear Taken,
The "last days" is a spiritual term which is referring to the time when Christ begins bringing in His harvest of mankind. It involves two ages of time.
The "ages" represents certain periods of time of how Christ interacts with mankind. In the previous age, Christ gave the Law to the Nation of Israel. In this present age, Christ is bringing in the harvest of First Fruits through the New Covenant. In the final age, Christ will bring in the remaining harvest of mankind through the New Covenant. After the last person is saved, the ages will come to an end.
As for your other comments, they are confusing and void of scriptural support.
There probably is no need to continue this discussion.
Joe
VCO
Active Member
Antichrist, may pretend to be Christian at first. But at mid tribulation, his true color come out when he walks into Temple, and demands to be worshipped as God, or else.
Here and now, I have look at their Doctrinal Statement of Faith, to determine if they are Truly Christians with some borderline doctrinal errors, or whether they have crossed the Line and are a full blown Apostate Christianity. That is why I hesitate labeling one denomination or church, an Apostate Religion. I suspect that as time goes on, God will make those Errors of Apostacy more and more obvious.
It is why I will ask for a Doctrinal Statement of Faith, when someone comes in here spouting strange doctrines. I do believe there or some Christians that do not know better. Those we need to protect, and teach Correct Doctrine. I have know a lot of would be Posters, that refuse to publish their Doctrinal Statement of Faith; which to me spells out either Red Warning Flags, or that they are not Born Again, so I do not spend a lot of time with them, other than an explanation of what Born Again really is.
I mean, I don't mind posting exactly what I believe, such as Post #172, above. Sure I don't expect everyone to agree with every Statement, but some Statements are iron clade, doctrinal Statements of True Statements of the Core of Christianity.
To give you an idea of what I am talking about. I do not Consider Catholicism an Apostate Religion, which some do. Some of their add-on doctrines, push them close to that LINE, but their Catholic Catechism has MOST of the Doctrinal Statements that You can find in Dr. Charles Stanley's Doctrinal Statement. REALLY, I did search both. I see a Church Split coming, (if the Rapture does not happen first), between those that Want to worship Mary, and those who want to worship GOD. So YES, the Catholic Church has a Few Born Again Christians in it. I have met some, and have discipled a few.
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Taken
Well-Known Member
VCO
Active Member
Antichrist, may pretend to be Christian at first. But at mid tribulation, his true color come out when he walks into Temple, and demands to be worshipped as God, or else.
Here and now, I have look at their Doctrinal Statement of Faith, to determine if they are Truly Christians with some borderline doctrinal errors, or whether they have crossed the Line and are a full blown Apostate Christianity. That is why I hesitate labeling one denomination or church, an Apostate Religion. I suspect that as time goes on, God will make those Errors of Apostacy more and more obvious.
It is why I will ask for a Doctrinal Statement of Faith, when someone comes in here spouting strange doctrines. I do believe there or some Christians that do not know better. Those we need to protect, and teach Correct Doctrine. I have know a lot of would be Posters, that refuse to publish their Doctrinal Statement of Faith; which to me spells out either Red Warning Flags, or that they are not Born Again, so I do not spend a lot of time with them, other than an explanation of what Born Again really is.
I mean, I don't mind posting exactly what I believe, such as Post #172, above. Sure I don't expect everyone to agree with every Statement, but some Statements are iron clade, doctrinal Statements of True Statements of the Core of Christianity.
To give you an idea of what I am talking about. I do not Consider Catholicism an Apostate Religion, which some do. Some of their add-on doctrines push them close to that LINE, but their Catholic Catechism has MOST of the Doctrinal Statements that You can find in Dr. Charles Stanley's Doctrinal Statement. REALLY, I did search both. I see a Church Split coming, (if the Rapture does not happen first), between those that Want to worship Mary, and those who want to worship GOD.
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