Anti- Christian Crusade.

[mjrhealth]

When you, or anyone else, encourages or supports gay marriage, it is no different than if you were to encourage or support incest, or bestiality.

Christ is the only teacher we need, He just gets left out a lot.

As for sin, you simply havnt yet got understanding yet.

In all His Love

 

[StanJ]

I'm on drugs now? How? Which ones of yours did you slip me?

It's WIFE old man. God bound them together - and let no man split them apart.

Wife doesn't connote marriage Marcus. You really need to KNOW what and why you believe before saying it is IN scripture.

 

[StanJ]

The point being that "husband" and "wife" in the Bible don't mean the same as in English? Okay, then explain:

1Pe 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

1Co 7:3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
1Co 7:4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
1Co 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

I'm sure there are more, but that's enough to get on with.
Besides, it's getting late.

I just did explain it Barrd. Will doing it again help you to understand, or do you even want to?

 

[StanJ]

Very well, Stan.
To please you, I will post the entire chapter, even if it takes more than one post to do it.

There you have it. In brief, these are the sexual practices God has forbidden.
We may not do any of these, or encourage others to do any of these...they are called "abominable customs" and we are not to defile ourselves with them.
While it is true that gay sex is only one item in the list, it is one of the items in the list, and it is forbidden, just like all of the other items contained in this list.
I'm sorry if you took my attempt to keep it short as not being honest, so, in the interest of honesty, here is the entire chapter with all the sexual sins listed.
Enjoy.

I didn't ask you to, as I said, I know it. They are very clear.

Nobody is encouraging ANY believers to do these things, are you?
You call them abominable because you like the sound of the word just like you do with abomination. Those are NOT the words in scripture, which is why I suggested you start using modern English translations, unless you think the KJV is actually inspired?
My point WAS, that gay sex may be included, but gay marriage isn't, so where do you get that gay marriage is not allowed?

I didn't take you so-called attempt to keep it short as dishonest, I took your equivocation, deflection and prevarication as not being honest.

 

[StanJ]

The part of this passage that concerns us is this:

Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

The point being made here is that God created a man and a woman, one for the other, the female for the male, and the male for the female. They are no more twain, but one flesh. God has joined them together.
i couldn't think of a better definition of the term "marriage" even if I were to try.

Did I misquote Jesus?

Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Okay, so it was Moses who gave them divorce. Was that my error?
But here we see that "from the beginning it was not so", which is the point. It was never God's intention that a man should divorce his wife.

Now you're just going in circles Barrd, refusing or not being able to understand what I said...I guess the former. In any event, I've answered this enough.

 

[StanJ]

I'm on drugs now? How? Which ones of yours did you slip me?

It's WIFE old man. God bound them together - and let no man split them apart.

Well you negated my other options so this was the only one I could come up with.

Read my words Marcus. W I F E does NOT = marriage, just as husband and wife do not. Having SEX = marriage.

 

[Barrd]

I just did explain it Barrd. Will doing it again help you to understand, or do you even want to?

Have you ever heard that old wisdom about pointing a finger and three pointing back at you?
You are the one who is having a problem understanding. No matter how many times it is explained to you, you just don't seem to "get it".

 

[Barrd]

I didn't ask you to, as I said, I know it. They are very clear.

Nobody is encouraging ANY believers to do these things, are you?
You call them abominable because you like the sound of the word just like you do with abomination. Those are NOT the words in scripture, which is why I suggested you start using modern English translations, unless you think the KJV is actually inspired?
My point WAS, that gay sex may be included, but gay marriage isn't, so where do you get that gay marriage is not allowed?

I didn't take you so-called attempt to keep it short as dishonest, I took your equivocation, deflection and prevarication as not being honest.

This is why you are so frustrating. It's like you have a mental block, or something.
Do you not remember telling me that sex is marriage?
In fact, you just told Marcus, and I quote, "Having SEX = marriage."

And now, you tell me

My point WAS, that gay sex may be included, but gay marriage isn't, so where do you get that gay marriage is not allowed?

Stan, if "Having SEX = marriage." then having gay sex = gay marriage. So, obviously, if gay sex is not allowed, it follows then that gay marriage is not allowed. Honestly, Stan, you are getting yourself tangled up in your own words, here. It is sad to watch someone I once respected and admired take such a fall.

Do you know how totally....umm....less than brilliant you are making yourself look? Not to mention your equivocation, deflection, and prevarication are casting doubts upon your honesty.
At least try to keep track of your....umm....remarks.

 

[Barrd]

Now you're just going in circles Barrd, refusing or not being able to understand what I said...I guess the former. In any event, I've answered this enough.

Yes, I'd say that you've answered enough.
You've totally embarrassed yourself, and I just don't have it in me to continue this farce with you. I do have some compassion, after all.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Wife doesn't connote marriage Marcus. You really need to KNOW what and why you believe before saying it is IN scripture.

Gee Stan, when I make you my wife, how in the world do I do that?

And go make me a sandwich.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

sex is not a sin between two consenting partners, when done with with someone else when married than it is, because it affect the person you are married to.

Hey! Beaker person says it's not a sin if two men do really nasty, disgusting things with each other when they burn with lust!

Hey! Beaker person says it's not a sin if some honey wants to make love to a married man!

Hey! Beaker person says it's not a sin if I get my daughter to want to have sex with me!

-- Before you start proclaiming sin is not sin, you might want to find out what God has to say about it.

It's not about consent or marriage.
It's about proper relationships.

 

[Barrd]

Hey! Beaker person says it's not a sin if two men do really nasty, disgusting things with each other when they burn with lust!

Hey! Beaker person says it's not a sin if some honey wants to make love to a married man!

Hey! Beaker person says it's not a sin if I get my daughter to want to have sex with me!

-- Before you start proclaiming sin is not sin, you might want to find out what God has to say about it.

It's not about consent or marriage.
It's about proper relationships.

"Beaker person"?
Let me guess....my old pal, Mj is lurking about.
He's been in my "iggy bin" for ages. I don't talk to him any more, because it is basically pointless.
He has quite a few really weird ideas, but for me, the capper was when he decided that we don't need the Bible.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

"Beaker person"?

His avatar is Beaker from the Muppets.

I may be spelling beaker incorrectly.

 

[StanJ]

Whatever, the point was that sex is for a man and a woman in a marriage commitment. A young woman who indulged in sex outside of that commitment was stoned to death.
Yes, a marriage that is unconsummated is considered grounds for divorce....does this surprise you?
Yes, sex was marriage. There was a ceremony, but the couple was not actually married until they had sex.
After that they were married.
But, as we have seen in Lev. 18, gay sex was outlawed.
Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Just like incest or bestiality.
You can't marry your daughter. You can't marry your puppy dog.
And two gay men cannot marry.
When you, or anyone else, encourages or supports gay marriage, it is no different than if you were to encourage or support incest, or bestiality.
It really is that simple.

No, not whatever, the point IS, that the act of sex between a man and a woman IS marriage.
No divorce, annulment.
Ceremonies started long after men and women committed themselves to each other.

For the umpteenth time Barrd, NOBODY here, as far as I've seen, encourages or supports gay marriage. Those of us, like me, just make a distinction between what believers do and what unbelievers do. You seem to believe that unbelievers are subject to Biblical laws, when clearly they are NOT. You seem to believe that gays not practising sex will save themselves, when they will not. You seem to feel that denying ALL citizens their legal rights under the law is what God wants, when clearly He wants all men to be saved, not have their morality legislated.

That you can't see the difference, IMO, is quite sad.

 

[StanJ]

Yes, I'd say that you've answered enough.
You've totally embarrassed yourself, and I just don't have it in me to continue this farce with you. I do have some compassion, after all.

Good, then please stop asking foolish questions.

 

[Barrd]

His avatar is Beaker from the Muppets.

I may be spelling beaker incorrectly.

Yep....that's Mjhealth.
I met him a way back several months ago.
I suspect he's a half a bubble off, and I do sort of pity him.
But it's useless to talk to him.
He'll tell you that you worship the Bible, and not Jesus. If he hasn't told you that yet, he will, sooner or later.
That's his big "thing".
He always signs of with "love"....after he's said some very unloving things. He's a rather nasty customer.

 

[StanJ]

So, you don't think that the Bible is PROPER instruction? That's interesting.

Stan you are not the one to decide if I am wrong or I am right. I am not perfect, that is true.
But then, neither are you.

And yes, you hurt me with your words. But don't fret yourself....I'll get over it.

So you insist on twisting my words?

Of course I am...we are instructed to question ALL spirits. Never said I was perfect...I just don't go about vilifying unbelievers, which is exactly what Jesus taught us NOT to do. Who is your neighbour?

I'm sure you will.

 

[StanJ]

Gee Stan, when I make you my wife, how in the world do I do that?

And go make me a sandwich.

Being facetious only shows your true colours Marcus.

 

[Barrd]

No, not whatever, the point IS, that the act of sex between a man and a woman IS marriage.
No divorce, annulment.
Ceremonies started long after men and women committed themselves to each other.

For the umpteenth time Barrd, NOBODY here, as far as I've seen, encourages or supports gay marriage. Those of us, like me, just make a distinction between what believers do and what unbelievers do. You seem to believe that unbelievers are subject to Biblical laws, when clearly they are NOT. You seem to believe that gays not practising sex will save themselves, when they will not. You seem to feel that denying ALL citizens their legal rights under the law is what God wants, when clearly He wants all men to be saved, not have their morality legislated.

That you can't see the difference, IMO, is quite sad.

Just because something is legal, doesn't make it alright.
Abortion is legal. It is still murder, and it is still against God's law....but it is legal.
No-fault divorce is legal....and we have just examined Jesus' opinion of that.

If you are a believer, you uphold God's law.
"If you love Me," says Jesus, "obey My commands."
Unbelievers, of course, will not do this.
Believers are subject to God's law. I don't have to remind you that Jesus is God made flesh, do I?
When we deal with unbelievers, we are still subject to God's law. Either we are Christians all the time, or we are not Christians at all.
There's a bit more to being a Christian than gong to church. There's more to it than saying a pretty prayer, or getting wet. If your faith does not change the way you live your life, then is it real faith or just posturing?

I don't believe gays will save themselves, whether they are practicing sex or not...and that is the problem. They cannot save themselves, any more than you or I can. They need God.
But how will they ever learn of God, when His followers will not tell them the truth? Do you think those gays in their Metropolitan churches are being told the truth?
There is no "legal right" to perversion, Stan. If you believe that, why aren't you agitating for all those other sexual practices in Lev 18 to be legalized? How about we bake a nice wedding cake for the couple where the stepdad is now living with his stepdaughter. I know I mentioned them in another thread, but maybe you missed it. This is a Baptist couple living here in my town...real people. The Mom is devastated, but there it is. Her daughter is just waiting for the divorce to be final. And, hey....their marriage, should they actually go through with it, will be legal, right? But that doesn't make it alright, does it?

To me, a believer is someone who walks with Jesus through all facets of their lives. If it is a no-no to steal while I'm in church, it is still a no-no at WalMart, or at my friend's house, or at the Mall, or anywhere else I happen to be. If I know someone else is doing it, I do not encourage them in it. I might even turn them in.
Having sex with a dog is a no-no. Doesn't matter where or when it happens, or even if our wonky government should legalize it...they haven't yet, but at this point, who knows? It would still be wrong.

I suspect NAMBLA will be the next to step out and start agitating for their "marriage" to be legal. And there are precedents...there are loopholes that allow girls as young as 14 in some cases to marry an older man, so why not a young boy? Should Christians accept it?

I say NO!

 

[Barrd]

Good, then please stop asking foolish questions.

You think my questions are foolish?
I think your answers are....well, ridiculous.
I'm surprised you actually came back in here, after the last boner you pulled.

Sex is marriage....but there is no law against gay marriage?

How's that shoe leather taste?