Anti- Christian Crusade.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

No, your injection of motive into my posting is again off the mark. Again, you judge another's motives, and we're not to do that.

The point is: homosexuality is morally wrong. It doesn't matter a whit if it's wrong in the world's opinion or not.

Being "inclusive" and "tolerant" does not mean backing up homosexuality.

I am inclusive: if a homosexual wants to know more about Christ, I will gladly welcome him or her into our church. However, once in the congregation, they cannot to continue in that "lifestyle" any more than I would allow a thief or a murderer to do so and be a member of our church. Likewise with any other sexual sin... and there's plenty of it. But you don't see those who do it, say pornography is perfectly acceptable because it's legal saying we should have it in our worship service, or that we've done away with anti-adultery laws so I can hit on another man's wife in church too.

That's ludicrous, but that's exactly what you do when you water down God's Laws.

I am tolerant too: I don't punish homosexuals. I work with them. However, I do not nor I will not associate with them, befriend them, or defend them, unlike you.

I do not have any special privilege; that again is p.c. speak of the liberal left.

I do expect to lose in the end-times, and the number of well-intentioned, so-called christians who accept homosexuality and foist it on the rest of us - is exactly one of the things which makes the lukewarm Church of Laodicea be spit out, violently, by our Lord.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

I have said, and I'll say it again:

Homosexuality is what Satan will use to attack the Church. The radical homosexual, liberal left will attack the true Church until they water it down so that it is lukewarm.

The oppression of the Church starts with homosexuals attacking it. They will not cease. They hate God, and they hate Jesus, and they hate us because of that.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

And anyone who defends the homosexual agenda is no friend of God.

 

[River Jordan]

Wow Marcus, you sure are full of anger. That's sad. And apparently you are unable to understand how someone can believe that homosexuality is a sin, while at the same time understanding how that doesn't mean we have to be hateful jerks towards gays or expect the US government to enforce our beliefs.

Let go of your anger and hatred....they're unhealthy to carry around.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

There you go again, judging people's state of mind.

Will you ever learn? Probably not. I have low expectations of people ever learning from their mistakes. And if I don't have any expectations, I'll have no resentments when they fail, as you do again and again.

Why don't you try taking the 2x4 out of your eye before you try to take the splinter out of mine.

 

[StanJ]

And anyone who defends the homosexual agenda is no friend of God.

Which is NOT the same as advocating love and acceptance of Sinners, which Jesus did all the time, but never one accepted their sin, nor did he advocate for moral legislation to deal with them.

 

[StanJ]

1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

This has nothing to do with the SCOTUS decision, nor does it tell me why I should not stand against homosexuality?

It's a principle you obviously don't see or refuse to. How it is being applied here is NOT the issue. Why keep brining up SCOTUS?

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Which is NOT the same as advocating love and acceptance of Sinners, which Jesus did all the time, but never one accepted their sin, nor did he advocate for moral legislation to deal with them.

Hey Stan, I'm a sinner, and last I checked so are you, Barrd, and River Jordan - and If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. - 1Jn 1:8

Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. - 1Jn 3:4

Homosexuality is a sin.

To say that saying that is being a hateful jerk is being a hateful jerk themselves.

To defend the world's embrace of all things sexually perverted, like homosexuality, is to be an enemy to God.

So let's get some basic facts straight in this mixed-up age of liberal political correctness that has us watering down God's Word until we're all lukewarm - mixing sin with righteousness and evil with good.

 

[StanJ]

Hey Stan, I'm a sinner, and last I checked so are you, Barrd, and River Jordan - and If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. - 1Jn 1:8
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. - 1Jn 3:4
Homosexuality is a sin.
To say that saying that is being a hateful jerk is being a hateful jerk themselves.
To defend the world's embrace of all things sexually perverted, like homosexuality, is to be an enemy to God.
So let's get some basic facts straight in this mixed-up age of liberal political correctness that has us watering down God's Word until we're all lukewarm - mixing sin with righteousness and evil with good.

Yes, we are ALL sinners, saved by grace.
Nobody is suggesting homosexuality is NOT sin, and it is not SAYING that, that makes one a hater, it's vilifying those that do sin by excluding them from rights of democracy. Paul teaches how we are to treat those who bring sin INTO the church, and also how we are to treat those that are NOT in the church. It's found in 1 Cor 5, and makes some very clear guidelines.
It's not a matter of defending the world, it's a matter of not condemning it, when the Bible teaches God will and that we are to deal with what is OUR responsibility and not involve ourselves in His. 1 Cor 5:13
Those are the FACTS, and as Jesus told us to LOVE our neighbour, doing anything less goes against both His Word and the Bible.

 

[River Jordan]

Homosexuality is a sin.

To say that saying that is being a hateful jerk is being a hateful jerk themselves.

Then it's a good thing no one has said that.

 

[Barrd]

Yes it is.

So, you know that this is a recent development, but it never occurred to you to wonder why the sudden change in attitude? River, have you ever thought that maybe there is more going on here than "tolerance"?

Unfortunately, the Christian community's reaction to this is furthering that trend, rather than reversing or slowing it.

Christians will not leave God, nor will God leave them.

Again you missed the point. You want the government to codify your beliefs about sexual perversion into law. Is it your position that only your beliefs get to be made into law?

Did you take biology in school, River?
Is it not obvious to you that sex between male and female is natural, while sex between two males or two females is not?
This is not just my religious belief, it is scientific fact, and cannot be denied.

Do you see the contradiction there?

No, Sis, I honestly do not.

Again you missed the point. You're arguing that sodomy should be illegal because it's unhealthy. My question is, should the government outlaw all unhealthy things? Or just the ones you don't approve of?

Do you remember, not long ago, how AIDS was "the gay disease"? I don't know how anyone could have forgotten the horror of AIDS.
And now, we have MRSA...basically staph infection that is resistant to drugs...incurable and deadly.
And being spread by people who engage in sodomy....basically gay men.
Have you ever watched anyone die of this horrible disease? I have. No, my friend wasn't gay, but his cousin was, and he managed to infect my young friend, her brother, and their mother, before he died. All three of those people are now also dead.
Dead, River, because one person in the group was gay, and managed to infect everyone else he came in contact with.
MRSA is more than "unhealthy". It is deadly.

There are a good many "unhealthy things" that the government does outlaw. Heroin, for instance. Driving drunk. Raising fighting dogs.
You keep hitting on gluttony, which is, of course, dangerous...but I honestly do not see how the government can outlaw food...although the way prices keep rising, gluttony is liable to get so expensive that only the disgustingly rich will be able to get disgustingly fat...which might not be such a bad thing, eh?

In the cases I've read about, the Christian business owners asked "Is this for a same sex wedding". So my point is, why are they only asking about that one sin? If, as you've posted here before, all sins are equally bad in the eyes of God, shouldn't the Christian business owners who are so worried about supporting sin that they'll go to jail over it have some sort of sin checklist they go through with every prospective customer?

I've never heard of any business asking such questions.
The only case I ever read about, the bakers knew the family and had done business with them before. They were very aware that the couple in question were a pair of lesbians. Now, while they were quite willing to supply cake for a birthday, or cupcakes, or cookies, or whatever, when it came to baking a cake for a lesbian wedding, they refused.
This refusal nearly cost them their business.

And this is where the hypocrisy comes in. When it comes to other types of sin, Christians are very accommodating and apologetic. "You're obese and have ordered a full buffet and large cake for a ceremony with only 10 people? No problem! It's a special event." As if God has a clause that says sin isn't sin if it's for a special occasion.

You're slick, Sis. You tossed that "only ten people" in there because I had said that a buffet for a wedding ought to be well stocked, especially if they are expecting a lot of guests.
A wedding with only ten guests? Who needs a caterer? I could handle that all by myself.

Oh, but when it comes to gays, no such accommodation or excuses are allowed. Suddenly it's all important to not be supporting sin in business transactions no matter what. Funny how that works.

River, no matter how you try to dance around it, homosexuality is something that God has forbidden.
I do not understand how you get that Christians ought to participate in something that our God has forbidden.
Should we risk our own salvation, then, in order to be "politically correct"?
Sorry...the answer has to be "no".
And I don't see how it hasn't occurred to you that the end result of coddling these people is to send them to hell with a hug and a smile.
What you don't seem to understand is that puts their blood all over your own hands. You won't like finding yourself standing right beside your gay friends when God calls us to be judged...

No, it's more along the lines of "Christians are hypocritical jerks when it comes to gays. I have no interest in being part of that group." It's sad how these bakers, florists, and county clerks have become the public face of Christianity.

Sad? No, River. These people are heroes of the faith, because they dare to stand up for what is right and true, even though it could cost them their jobs. They have the courage of their convictions, even though "public opinion" is against them.
I have great admiration and respect for them.

Morally, no. Legally, yes.

So, you do understand the difference, then.
Now, let me ask you this age-old question...are we to obey God or man?

I understand where he's coming from. I see it from right-wing Christians all the time. Things aren't going their way and Christians are losing the special privileges they once enjoyed as non-Christians and minority faiths push back. And since we're supposed to be a secular society rather than a Christian theocracy, the non-Christians are consistently winning in court. And it's not because there's some sort of demonic agenda or anything, it's because legally they're right.

Do you really think that it's about "losing special privileges"?
My dear girl, anyone with a Bible who can read should have expected that. We know that the world is not too fond of us. Of course, it isn't. Christians will follow the lead of their Shepherd, which means that they will shine the light of God into the darkness where sin hides it's ugly face. It means that we will say, out loud where people can hear us, "homosexuality is a sin, forbidden by our God, and we will not participate in it."
Special privileges? Our Lord told us that we would be hated. Why is anyone surprised to find it so?

I understand how that's scary to groups who used to enjoy those special privileges. The country isn't run by them for their benefit any more. But to be honest with you, while I deeply lament the loss of faith that we're seeing (especially among the youth), I'm actually quite happy to see that we're more inclusive and tolerant than before. Gays, non-Christians, atheists, etc....they're all citizens and as such have just as much right to a public voice as anyone else. They have just as much right to not be discriminated against as anyone else. They have just as much right to go into businesses and be served as anyone else. They have just as much right to not have the government peering into and monitoring their sex lives as anyone else. They have just as much right to enter into consensual legal agreements as anyone else.

River, do you understand that the wages of sin is death?
Christianity has always been inclusive, welcoming sinners to repent and come to Jesus for salvation. All sinners are welcome.
Jesus did not come to condemn the world, but to save it.
But that doesn't mean that we can walk up into God's mansion, put our feet up on His golden coffee table, and say "Hey, God, get me a beer willya?"
Maybe you didn't get the memo....homosexuality is forbidden. Those who practice it will not inherit the kingdom of God.
This is not about giving them equal rights....unless you mean the equal right to eternal damnation.
So, you don't like it that owners of Christian businesses are not willing to accompany them into hell?
I hate it for you...but I don't expect to see you in heaven, either.
Now, that does make me sad....

IOW, some groups don't have the power to oppress that they used to, and it scares them. I can't say that I'm too sad about that.

The thing you don't seem to understand is that our government cannot take God's power away from Him.
God has said that homosexuality is an abomination.
I have to point out to you that He has the last word, not the government.
If you truly love your gay friends, you will stop coddling them and tell them the truth.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Those are the FACTS, and as Jesus told us to LOVE our neighbour, doing anything less goes against both His Word and the Bible.

Jesus did not say we had to embrace homosexuality; nor did He say we had to accept homosexuality as normal behavior; nor did He condone promoting it as normal because some men and women of the world said it's legal.

I'm not talking about homosexuals per se. I know exactly who they are. They are sinners like you and me, but unlike you and me, they make no attempt to repent of their sin. Rather, they hate God and parade their sin like Sodom. Love them? Sure. They're still children of God. Beware of them? Absolutely! We are to wary of the evil in this world. We are to be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. - Mt 10:16

I'm talking about the sin of homosexuality and some in the church who want to "include" it. That should never be. Of course, we shouldn't judge one another either, but boy, have I ever been judged here today.

 

[Barrd]

It's a principle you obviously don't see or refuse to. How it is being applied here is NOT the issue. Why keep brining up SCOTUS?

Our government has legalized gay marriage.
Now, perhaps you do not understand just how dangerous that is.
Maybe you ought to look at the statistics on MRSA.
There are very good reasons why God forbade homosexuality. He isn't just sitting around on a fluffy cloud somewhere, making up rules to spoil our fun. Homosexuality, particularly sodomy, is actually very dangerous, and not just for the "bottom guy", but for everyone who will come into contact with them.
I suppose I am more opposed to it than most, because, as I have said, I actually had to watch a very good friend die of MRSA. Why? Because she had a gay cousin who brought the infection home to his family.
We were quite honestly much safer with our gays in the closet. Since they've "come out", being gay has become almost a fad.
No, we don't have many of them prancing around the small southern town where I live...but they are all over Pensacola, where I used to love to spend the afternoon with my grand daughters, and even Mobile. I don't even want to think about what it's getting to be like in cities like San Francisco or Detroit....ugh.

It is one thing to be accepting and tolerant.
It is something else again to send these people to hell while all the while smiling at them and congratulating them on finally having achieved the right to die...

 

[Barrd]

Jesus did not say we had to embrace homosexuality; nor did He say we had to accept homosexuality as normal behavior; nor did He condone promoting it as normal because some men and women of the world said it's legal.

I'm not talking about homosexuals per se. I know exactly who they are. They are sinners like you and me, but unlike you and me, they make no attempt to repent of their sin. Rather, they hate God and parade their sin like Sodom. Love them? Sure. They're still children of God. Beware of them? Absolutely! We are to wary of the evil in this world. We are to be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. - Mt 10:16

I'm talking about the sin of homosexuality and some in the church who want to "include" it. That should never be. Of course, we shouldn't judge one another either, but boy, have I ever been judged here today.

Well, Marcus, we find ourselves on the same side of this issue.
So, our Christianity is being judged because we are loyal to our Lord? So be it.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Well, Marcus, we find ourselves on the same side of this issue.
So, our Christianity is being judged because we are loyal to our Lord? So be it.

So be it. To be maligned for standing up for God's Word - in love - is treasure in Heaven.

 

[River Jordan]

So, you know that this is a recent development, but it never occurred to you to wonder why the sudden change in attitude? River, have you ever thought that maybe there is more going on here than "tolerance"?

What did you have in mind?

Did you take biology in school, River?
Is it not obvious to you that sex between male and female is natural, while sex between two males or two females is not?
This is not just my religious belief, it is scientific fact, and cannot be denied.

This is going to be a theme in my post....I can't tell if you're intentionally dodging the point, or just missed it.

I asked if you expect the government to codify your beliefs into law. Do you?

Do you remember, not long ago, how AIDS was "the gay disease"? I don't know how anyone could have forgotten the horror of AIDS.
And now, we have MRSA...basically staph infection that is resistant to drugs...incurable and deadly.
And being spread by people who engage in sodomy....basically gay men.
Have you ever watched anyone die of this horrible disease? I have. No, my friend wasn't gay, but his cousin was, and he managed to infect my young friend, her brother, and their mother, before he died. All three of those people are now also dead.
Dead, River, because one person in the group was gay, and managed to infect everyone else he came in contact with.
MRSA is more than "unhealthy". It is deadly.

Do you realize that the overwhelming majority of HIV infections are among heterosexuals? It's not even close. The same is true for MRSA. Of course, using your logic, since heterosexual sex gave us things like syphilis and HPV, we should outlaw that too!

And again, you didn't answer the question. Do you want the government to outlaw all unhealthy things, or just the ones you don't approve of?

I've never heard of any business asking such questions.
The only case I ever read about, the bakers knew the family and had done business with them before. They were very aware that the couple in question were a pair of lesbians. Now, while they were quite willing to supply cake for a birthday, or cupcakes, or cookies, or whatever, when it came to baking a cake for a lesbian wedding, they refused.
This refusal nearly cost them their business.

Again, I can't tell if you intentionally dodged the point, or if you just missed it. The Christian business owners asked "Is this for a gay wedding" (the ones in Washington State). Why did they only ask about that one sin? If all sin is equal in God's eyes (as you've been saying), why didn't they ask about all sins? Or at least other sins?

You're slick, Sis. You tossed that "only ten people" in there because I had said that a buffet for a wedding ought to be well stocked, especially if they are expecting a lot of guests.
A wedding with only ten guests? Who needs a caterer? I could handle that all by myself.

Again, I can't tell if you intentionally dodged the point, or if you just missed it. There is not special clause that says sin is ok as long as it's for a special occasion, yet we never hear of any Christian businesses refusing to cater to gluttons or the greedy. Do you see the problem?

River, no matter how you try to dance around it, homosexuality is something that God has forbidden.

I'm sorry, but what is wrong with some of you? I have consistently said that homosexuality is a sin, and have never said otherwise. Why isn't that getting through to you?

I do not understand how you get that Christians ought to participate in something that our God has forbidden.

Because they do every single day. They just turn a blind eye to all the other sins. That's the hypocrisy. Christians would have a lot more credibility if we were consistent in our stance against sin. Instead, gluttony and greed are actively embraced and practiced within the faith, while homosexuality has been made to be the only sin that's worth taking a stand against. That's outrageously hypocritical.

Sad? No, River. These people are heroes of the faith, because they dare to stand up for what is right and true, even though it could cost them their jobs. They have the courage of their convictions, even though "public opinion" is against them.
I have great admiration and respect for them.

They stand up for their convictions when it comes to gays, but no other sinners. Why?

Now, let me ask you this age-old question...are we to obey God or man?

God first, man second. And I'm not aware of anywhere God has said "You can support any sin if you have to, unless it's homosexuality".

Do you really think that it's about "losing special privileges"?

Definitely. You even described it in your own town, where Christians run things for their own benefit, and everyone else "knows their place".

Our Lord told us that we would be hated.

That's not an excuse to go out and be as hateable as possible.

Maybe you didn't get the memo....homosexuality is forbidden.

Sheesh....what is wrong with you? I've never said otherwise.

So, you don't like it that owners of Christian businesses are not willing to accompany them into hell?

They're perfectly willing to accompany other sinners to hell, aren't they?

I hate it for you...but I don't expect to see you in heaven, either.

Gee, how nice of you. Now I'm not even a Christian. And for what....that I don't believe gays should be singled out among all the other sinners? Unbelievable.

The thing you don't seem to understand is that our government cannot take God's power away from Him.
God has said that homosexuality is an abomination.
I have to point out to you that He has the last word, not the government.
If you truly love your gay friends, you will stop coddling them and tell them the truth.

I'm starting to think you haven't even been reading my posts at all, and have just been using them as jumping off points to say what you were going to say anyways. That certainly explains your constant missing the point and not even understanding what I've been saying.

 

[blessedhope]

This is a good one How many times has RF said this would happen? Double Standard PC liberal media.

Story here: http://www.gopusa.com/freshink/2015...-to-bake-cakes-for-gay-weddings/?subscriber=1

Muslim bakeries in Michigan refused to bake cakes for gay weddings. You would think that would be news like Memories Pizza refusing to cater gay weddings. Nope, Muslims are part of the liberal media protected class.

If Muslims want to follow their own religious beliefs and not bake cakes for gay weddings, you don't hear any big outcry of 'homophobia.' Instead, these Muslim bakeries in Michigan are given a pass to practice their religion as they see fit, unlike Christians.

 

[blessedhope]

Enjoy!

 

[blessedhope]

So Why is this?

 

[Barrd]

This is a good one How many times has RF said this would happen? Double Standard PC liberal media.

Story here: http://www.gopusa.com/freshink/2015...-to-bake-cakes-for-gay-weddings/?subscriber=1

Muslim bakeries in Michigan refused to bake cakes for gay weddings. You would think that would be news like Memories Pizza refusing to cater gay weddings. Nope, Muslims are part of the liberal media protected class.

If Muslims want to follow their own religious beliefs and not bake cakes for gay weddings, you don't hear any big outcry of 'homophobia.' Instead, these Muslim bakeries in Michigan are given a pass to practice their religion as they see fit, unlike Christians.

Christians don't behead people.
Muslims tend to react a bit more violently.
Liberals wisely leave them alone...