All eschatological views are correct?

[stunnedbygrace]

lol
in the context of “the revelation of Christ” i bet it is :)
find some way for that to all be happening (somewhere) today imo

I hear you. It is the spirit of the word that avails us. My default mode though, is the letter of the word.

 

[bbyrd009]

I hear you. It is the spirit of the word that avails us. My default mode though, is the letter of the word.

ah well, we are currently defining Word differently, i guess...i mean, can you Quote "letter of the word" or even "read the word" anywhere? Imo Word cannot be read, iow

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You lost me. Par for the course.

 

[marks]

The Wheat Harvest represents all the rest of the believers—the left behind hardhearted and/or carnal believers who were not ready when the Bride of Christ was raptured. These believers must endure the seven-year Tribulation, and for them the Great Tribulation (the last 3½ years) is a judgment that can be compared to the most severe action of Wheat threshing that is done in order to make the Wheat easier to separate (easier to winnow) away from the chaff.

Where do you see the Christians who have died before this time fit in?

Do you think that there have been Christians who have died who were not "ready" to "be the bride"? Do they have something subsequent to their death that completes their readiness? What are your thoughts on that?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I also think that people who will only read the KJV have a strange sense about them. It's as though they are saying the translators themselves were prophets. It doesn't make sense to me, particularly now, when we have the ability to study how a thing was translated.

For myself, I don't "only" use the King James when I study, but for reading, I do only read the King James. For myself, it has more of a feel like reading the Greek than other English translations.

Much love!

 

[Abigail]

The drama that inevitably shows up in end of the world discussions is draining.

I figure, just be ready and don't sweat the small stuff. Like, trying to tie in contemporary events with prophesied signs and warnings of the end of the world.
There was a preacher in the early 20th century who was certain he knew when Jesus was returning. His entire congregation bought into this guys teaching and many sold all they had and spent the money. Because they thought they might as well enjoy the fruits of the labors they'd put in since they won't be here after.
Some even brought picnic baskets and made a day of it. All the while looking up on occasion waiting for Jesus.
He never came.
Many in that preachers flock were penniless and homeless afterward. Me? I'd have moved in with him and his wife. That'll teach 'em.

Be ready.
That's all we can do. God knows. Just like he said. That's enough for me.

 

[Truth7t7]

Imagine a child, born into horrendously abusive family, she is locked in a room all of her life, no computer, barely any food. Just abuse and torture. Eventually in early adulthood she is killed. Now of course this is hypothetical but I’m trying to suggest one of many ways a person could not be exposed to Jesus. There are many many more. Just use your imagination.

Would you look her in the eye and tell her, hard luck, wrong time, wrong place, your damned? Would a loving father do that?

Romans 1:18-20KJV
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[Truth7t7]

I also think that people who will only read the KJV have a strange sense about them. It's as though they are saying the translators themselves were prophets. It doesn't make sense to me, particularly now, when we have the ability to study how a thing was translated.

You mean like the creators of the greek text (Novum Testamentum Graece) that supports modern versions NIV, NASB, ESV, Etc, created by Adulterers (Kurt and Barbara Aland) and a catholic Jesuit cardinal, and homosexual Union supporter (Carl Mara Martini)?

 

[Truth7t7]

I had to start a thread because I want to know why they can’t be all correct and my posts in other threads receive only crickets, like what I say is a complete impossibility.

Why can’t pre, mid and post trib gatherings all be correct? Literal harvests are done in three stages. There’s the first pick of what’s ripe, leaving what’s not yet ripe and ready, then there’s the large haul, then there’s a gleaning.

So why do we think all of Gods harvest absolutely must be gathered at one exact time?

The resurrection of all takes place on the (Last Day) as scripture clearly teaches below

Your suggestion of different times of (harvest/resurrection) isnt found in scripture

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Wah, wah, wah

 

[Lambano]

"Eschatology" is nothing but another word for "Rank Speculation".

Eschatology is more like "informed speculation". One of the outcomes of this thread I would like to see is to try to unify all the various end-times scriptures into a coherent narrative, if possible. Or admit that it's not possible.

But if you want "rank speculation", we have this really rank thread:

"Farts And Poop" Didn't Stink In The Garden of Eden!? | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board

 

[Randy Kluth]

I had to start a thread because I want to know why they can’t be all correct and my posts in other threads receive only crickets, like what I say is a complete impossibility.

Why can’t pre, mid and post trib gatherings all be correct? Literal harvests are done in three stages. There’s the first pick of what’s ripe, leaving what’s not yet ripe and ready, then there’s the large haul, then there’s a gleaning.

So why do we think all of Gods harvest absolutely must be gathered at one exact time?

All 3 positions cannot be correct for the same reason a person cannot be 3 different places at the same time. You can't say I'm in the house, outside of the house, and in a different country at the same time. They can't all be true.

Now, there may be partial truths about all 3 things. I may have been in another country recently. And I may be half way inside my house, and half way outside of my house. But again, all 3 things are not true. They are mutually contradictory.

This is true with Post, Pre, and Mid Tribulation perspectives. Pre says there are 2 stages of Christ's 2nd Coming. So does Mid Trib, and perhaps even Pre Wrath. But Post Trib positively denies there are 2 stages at all.

And whereas Pre Trib says that Christ's 1st stage happens before the rise of Antichrist, Mid Trib positively says that Christ's 1st stage takes place in the middle of Antichrist's Reign. Furthermore, Pre Trib says that Christ can come at any time. Both Mid Trib and Post Trib would deny that.

But as in many Christian beliefs there are truths hidden in each position--otherwise, Christians would not hold to any of these positions. I believe Post Trib is true because it is what is taught in Scriptures. I believe Mid Trib recognizes that Christ cannot come at just any time, and recognizes that Christians must face the Antichrist's rise to power. I believe Pre Trib is right to always want to be prepared, and is also right to focus on Israel's Restoration.

Thus, all 3 positions are right, as I see it, in one way or another. But again, only one position can be taught in Scriptures. And I believe that is the Post Trib position.

 

[doxley]

Romans 1:18-20KJV
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

She may feel there is a God, but she hasn't heard the revelation of Christ, by whom all are saved.

 

[Enoch111]

Wah, wah, wah

Should we translate this as "I give up. All views cannot be correct, therefore I must search out the true view and abandon the rest".

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Eschatology is more like "informed speculation". One of the outcomes of this thread I would like to see is to try to unify all the various end-times scriptures into a coherent narrative, if possible. Or admit that it's not possible.

But if you want "rank speculation", we have this really rank thread:

"Farts And Poop" Didn't Stink In The Garden of Eden!? | Christian Forums @ Christianity Board

It’s only possible if you can grasp that prophetic passages jump forward and backward and you look for any clues to inform you that a jump has been made. Because there is no place where we are specifically told it is happening. We DO have the firm knowledge that it DOES happen by seeing how Jesus read from Isaiah and stopped “mid sentence” as some say. He stopped at the part that wasn’t to be yet in time.

If you can’t grasp that jumping happens, you wind up with a mess. For instance, in a recent conversation with someone about a passage that quite clearly speaks of the new heavens and earth, the last sentence speaks of death still being present, but reduced. A jump happened backward to the thousand years in that sentence, and the mans solution to his problem was to say death doesn’t really mean death there and that there is no thousand years. So a mess begins.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

All 3 positions cannot be correct for the same reason a person cannot be 3 different places at the same time. You can't say I'm in the house, outside of the house, and in a different country at the same time. They can't all be true.

Now, there may be partial truths about all 3 things. I may have been in another country recently. And I may be half way inside my house, and half way outside of my house. But again, all 3 things are not true. They are mutually contradictory.

This is true with Post, Pre, and Mid Tribulation perspectives. Pre says there are 2 stages of Christ's 2nd Coming. So does Mid Trib, and perhaps even Pre Wrath. But Post Trib positively denies there are 2 stages at all.

And whereas Pre Trib says that Christ's 1st stage happens before the rise of Antichrist, Mid Trib positively says that Christ's 1st stage takes place in the middle of Antichrist's Reign. Furthermore, Pre Trib says that Christ can come at any time. Both Mid Trib and Post Trib would deny that.

But as in many Christian beliefs there are truths hidden in each position--otherwise, Christians would not hold to any of these positions. I believe Post Trib is true because it is what is taught in Scriptures. I believe Mid Trib recognizes that Christ cannot come at just any time, and recognizes that Christians must face the Antichrist's rise to power. I believe Pre Trib is right to always want to be prepared, and is also right to focus on Israel's Restoration.

Thus, all 3 positions are right, as I see it, in one way or another. But again, only one position can be taught in Scriptures. And I believe that is the Post Trib position.

It’s okay. Truly, I’m amazed that even a few could grasp what I was saying.

 

[Truth7t7]

Thus, all 3 positions are right, as I see it, in one way or another. But again, only one position can be taught in Scriptures. And I believe that is the Post Trib position.

We Agree, as clearly seen in scripture below

"Immediately After The Tribulation" the Lord returns in the heavens, and the Angel's gather in the (Harvest/Resurrection)

Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand

Jesus Is The Lord

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Truth7t7]

It’s only possible if you can grasp that prophetic passages jump forward and backward and you look for any clues to inform you that a jump has been made. Because there is no place where we are specifically told it is happening. We DO have the firm knowledge that it DOES happen by seeing how Jesus read from Isaiah and stopped “mid sentence” as some say. He stopped at the part that wasn’t to be yet in time.

If you can’t grasp that jumping happens, you wind up with a mess. For instance, in a recent conversation with someone about a passage that quite clearly speaks of the new heavens and earth, the last sentence speaks of death still being present, but reduced. A jump happened backward to the thousand years in that sentence, and the mans solution to his problem was to say death doesn’t really mean death there and that there is no thousand years. So a mess begins.

There is no jumping forward and backward as you claim, scripture clearly identifies the "Resurrection Of All" takes place on the "Last Day"

As you appear to deny the scripture below with a (Wah, Wah, Wah) as seen in post #150

The resurrection of all takes place on the (Last Day) as scripture clearly teaches below

Your suggestion of different times of (harvest/resurrection) isnt found in scripture

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

[marks]

Eschatology is more like "informed speculation". One of the outcomes of this thread I would like to see is to try to unify all the various end-times scriptures into a coherent narrative, if possible. Or admit that it's not possible.

I think the division is in how literally to take the words.

For instance, the Sheep/Goats judgment, same as the great white throne jugdment? Some call it the same, even though there are many differences. Some say there are 7 judgments, and that seal 1 and trumpet 1 and bowl 1 are all the same "from different views", others look at the distinctions and say they are different.

From what I've seen, unity in interpretation of the Bible comes when we all hold the words to mean the same things. When people consider something metaphor, or allegory, then they decide, of what, and that becomes the doctrine. And everyone is different, so, 30,000 denominations.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

For instance, the Sheep/Goats judgment, same as the great white throne jugdment? Some call it the same, even though there are many differences. Some say there are 7 judgments, and that seal 1 and trumpet 1 and bowl 1 are all the same "from different views", others look at the distinctions and say they are different.

From what I've seen, unity in interpretation of the Bible comes when we all hold the words to mean the same things. When people consider something metaphor, or allegory, then they decide, of what, and that becomes the doctrine. And everyone is different, so, 30,000 denominations.

Much love!

Yes many Millennialist claim the sheep/goat parable is a pre-judgement to enter a Millennial Kingdom on this earth?

The Truth: The sheep/goat judgement is nothing more than a "parable" spoken to herdsmen, of the Great White Throne judgement seen in Revelation 20:11-15

As is clearly seen the sheep/goat parable ends in the "final judgement" in verse 46 as seen below, simple, clear, easy to understand

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.