All eschatological views are correct?

[stunnedbygrace]

I can’t even begin to approach that mess!

 

[marks]

I don’t know what you’re going on about here. No one is arguing that torment isn’t literal. The argument is over whether all men have eternal life or not.

The smoke ascends forever. The smoke is the smoke of their torment. The smoke continues, but your view is the torment does not. But the smoke is the smoke of their torment. Where there is smoke . . .

That's what I'm "going on about".

OK, I think we're about done.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, I agree we are done. I will not say that all men have eternal life. Ever. I will never say men who don’t have eternal life will nevertheless live forever.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I thought we were done since I won’t badmouth someone you want badmouthed.
Edit: Never mind, you removed the post I was replying to here.

 

[doxley]

OT prophecies did not show a gentile church. Had Jesus been received by the Jews at that time, there would not have been a gentile church, the gentiles would have joined to Israel to share in their covenant. And nothing in the OT would be harmed.

When Israel rejected Jesus, God sent the Gospel to the Gentiles directly, and gave more prophecies, things not included in the OT.

Have you considered that had Israel received Jesus, history would be completely different? And the New Testament also?

Much love!

God knew what would happen, it wasn't an accident, it was prophesied.

 

[doxley]

From the same poster that denies, literal eternal torment of the wicked is seen below

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Eternal torment doesn't make any sense, though there maybe many christians out there who are rubbing their hands together at this kind of revenge on unbelievers. A man could only stand a few hours of torture before his psyche splinters off and he escapes via his mind. Why would God get any satisfaction out of that? Why would God get any satisfaction out of such cruelty anyway? If you think he would, you need to learn more about God. The memory (smoke) of them remains forever, that's all.

 

[Truth7t7]

I don’t know what you’re going on about here. No one is arguing that torment isn’t literal. The argument is over whether all men have eternal life or not.

The argument is your claim of "literal" and you have been shown you dont believe the wicked will suffer literal conscious eternal torment, it's that simple

 

[Truth7t7]

The memory (smoke) of them remains forever, that's all.

The wicked dosent suffer conscious eternal torment, it's just their "Memory Smoke" left behind that does :

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The argument is your claim of "literal" and you have been shown you dont believe the wicked will suffer literal conscious eternal torment, it's that simple

I object to the word eternal there. Other than that I agree.

 

[doxley]

The wicked dosent suffer conscious eternal torment, it's just their "Memory Smoke" seen below?

The smoke is a metaphor for the memory of what happened to those who would not accept God

 

[marks]

The smoke is a metaphor for the memory of what happened to those who would not accept God

Metaphor? What would God need to say if that were what He actuall meant? If it's not a metaphor? "Really, I mean literal torment, something that actually hurts and doesn't stop." Would that do it?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Boy, we sure are on again off again. First We’re done, then we aren’t. I’m gettin* whiplash.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The smoke is a metaphor for the memory of what happened to those who would not accept God

Metaphor? Hmm. I think it will be literal smoke, a monument of sorts, for what happened.

 

[Truth7t7]

The smoke is a metaphor for the memory of what happened to those who would not accept God

Sure, you really have me convinced "Not"

 

[Truth7t7]

Metaphor? Hmm. I think it will be literal smoke, a monument of sorts, for what happened.

The wicked dosent suffer conscious eternal torment, it's just their "Monmument Smoke" left behind that does :

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The wicked dosent suffer conscious eternal torment, it's just their "Monmument Smoke" left behind that does :

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Once again, since you never seem to tire, take the word eternal out and I agree.

 

[doxley]

Metaphor? What would God need to say if that were what He actuall meant? If it's not a metaphor? "Really, I mean literal torment, something that actually hurts and doesn't stop." Would that do it?

Much love!

When I say that I mean the eternal aspect of it. I'm probably not explaining myself clearly.

 

[doxley]

I don't believe people are tortured in hell eternally, for the reasons I stated above and more

 

[stunnedbygrace]

When I say that I mean the eternal aspect of it. I'm probably not explaining myself clearly.

We work things out as we talk about them together. :)

 

[doxley]

Metaphor? Hmm. I think it will be literal smoke, a monument of sorts, for what happened.

A monument. Same thing as I'm trying to say