A question about the rapture

[ewq1938]

Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood

The flood is like the wrath at the second coming. The GT is the time before that. Same thing for Lot.

 

[ewq1938]

Correct. But you don't understand WHO He is coming for.

Luke 21
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


In Matthew 24 he placed gathering of saints (which is the rapture) as happening after the GT has ended so Luke 21:36 is not addressing the rapture.


1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to BEAR it.


One can escape something by being able to bear it. It is not a physical escape but a mental and spiritual escape.


What the verse is telling us is that people will survive the great tribulation by escaping all the deception and Apostasy and will be able to stand before Christ on the day his second coming, the one and only coming which is loud and visible to whole world. That is pure post-trib.


bear it:

G5297
??p?fe´??
hupophero¯
hoop-of-er'-o
From G5259 and G5342; to bear from underneath, that is, (figuratively) to undergo hardship: - bear, endure.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

To escape by bearing it in this context isn't to be raptured away but to be able to bear what is going to come, to undergo hardship. Christians survive the great tribulation are those who escaped in a non-physical sense, being able to bear the tribulations satan brings upon church in that time period. Jesus was also tempted by the devil and Christ escaped those temptations by being spiritually strong and able to undergo the hardship.

 

[David in NJ]

The elect are gathered from heaven and earth.

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The Church will be gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, will be gathered from the earth.


Thank you, brother.

It is very concerning that you are unable to understand that the rapture of the Church is getting ready to happen. When it does happen are you going to believe what your eyes see......the aliens have come or are you going to realize that you lacked understanding? The Word says that He appears to those that are watching for Him, which should be a concern to you. The hour of testing is near. All the best to you and strength.

Genesis, the OT Prophets, the LORD/Gospel, the Apostles, James, Jude all speak of Christ Coming as Post-Trib.

More deeply concerning is the willingness of christians to believe anything they are told even when it contradicts the Bible.
Then they take it to a lower level of adding to God's words.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is only one gathering from heaven and earth = Matt ch24, 1 Thess ch4, 2 Thess ch2, 1 John, Hebrews 9:28, 1 Cor ch15

There are no OT Prophecies of CHRIST coming 3 times.

Peace

In rev 14 as well as mat 25, we see two gatherings.
One is the rapture, the other is the gathering of messianic Jews.
the RETURN of Jesus is after the trib, but can not possibly be the rapure as Jesus vividly declared.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You have not made any argument. I do believe the picture of Jesus' Coming in Rev 14 is indeed the 2nd Coming. There are many preliminary presentations of Jesus' Coming in the Revelation, and they all represent a single Coming at the end of the age, on the "last day." What on earth do I need to prove about Matt 24 and Luke 17. I've been interpreting the Olivet Discourse for years as a Postrib.

The second coming is in rev 19. millions of white horses blackening the sky.
Trying to make rev 14 into that vivid depiction is ridiculous.
Totally impossible.
You are protecting a doctrine in which you are actually willing to change Gods word.
Woah

 

[rebuilder 454]

Genesis, the OT Prophets, the LORD/Gospel, the Apostles, James, Jude all speak of Christ Coming as Post-Trib.

More deeply concerning is the willingness of christians to believe anything they are told even when it contradicts the Bible.
Then they take it to a lower level of adding to God's words.

Oh dear.
WE ALL believe he is coming post trib.

 

[The Light]

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


In Matthew 24 he placed gathering of saints (which is the rapture) as happening after the GT has ended so Luke 21:36 is not addressing the rapture.


1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to BEAR it.


One can escape something by being able to bear it. It is not a physical escape but a mental and spiritual escape.


What the verse is telling us is that people will survive the great tribulation by escaping all the deception and Apostasy and will be able to stand before Christ on the day his second coming, the one and only coming which is loud and visible to whole world. That is pure post-trib.


bear it:

G5297
??p?fe´??
hupophero¯
hoop-of-er'-o
From G5259 and G5342; to bear from underneath, that is, (figuratively) to undergo hardship: - bear, endure.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

To escape by bearing it in this context isn't to be raptured away but to be able to bear what is going to come, to undergo hardship. Christians survive the great tribulation are those who escaped in a non-physical sense, being able to bear the tribulations satan brings upon church in that time period. Jesus was also tempted by the devil and Christ escaped those temptations by being spiritually strong and able to undergo the hardship.

Why would you even attempt to fool yourself? You have to be aware that word escape being used is ἐκφεύγω. That translated is:

1. to flee out of, flee away
   1. to seek safety in flight
   2. to escape

You continually use out of context verses to attempt to fool yourself into believing what you choose to believe instead of what the Word of God clearly states.

There will be a rapture of the Church before the final week as we can escape ALL THESE THINGS that will come to pass.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Both fit post trib. Neither fit pretrib. Take Lot and his daughters. Tribulation came to them and Lot offered up his daughters. No rapture out of there protected them. Only when that suffering was over and the wrath of God was to come against the city did God have an angel bring Lot out of there. That is Post trib in nature through and through and is not at all a pre trib concept.

Trying to make something fit that is not at all there.
The bible says in the same breath as Noah and Lot "one taken,one left"
You are reaching so hard friend.
The bible is against you .
The one taken,left ONLY fits the pretrib rapture model.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The flood is like the wrath at the second coming. The GT is the time before that. Same thing for Lot.

nope.
No buying and selling in your timeframe will be allowed.
Further, the AC has killed all refusing the mark.
Why do you think the Jews are ushered to safety?
Why do you think ONLY the 144k are sealed against the flying scorpions????
Mid trib or prewrath raptures can not and will not fit,

 

[The Light]

The flood is like the wrath at the second coming.

Exactly.

The GT is the time before that.

Exactly.

Same thing for Lot.

The Church will be in the ark 7 years before wrath. But the very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. The Lord will come for the second harvest at the 6th seal, before wrath.

I know you don't understand this because you have chosen to make the 6th seal and the 7th trumpet the same event............WHICH THEY ARE NOT.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Genesis, the OT Prophets, the LORD/Gospel, the Apostles, James, Jude all speak of Christ Coming as Post-Trib.

More deeply concerning is the willingness of christians to believe anything they are told even when it contradicts the Bible.
Then they take it to a lower level of adding to God's words.

and yet the postribber doctrine has to change the components of the virgins parable, as well as the "one taken" dynamic,plus the biggie, Rev 14 in that doctrine can not be Jesus on a cloud holding a sickle.

....all done with no red flags
woah

 

[rebuilder 454]

Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


In Matthew 24 he placed gathering of saints (which is the rapture) as happening after the GT has ended so Luke 21:36 is not addressing the rapture.


1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to BEAR it.


One can escape something by being able to bear it. It is not a physical escape but a mental and spiritual escape.


What the verse is telling us is that people will survive the great tribulation by escaping all the deception and Apostasy and will be able to stand before Christ on the day his second coming, the one and only coming which is loud and visible to whole world. That is pure post-trib.


bear it:

G5297
??p?fe´??
hupophero¯
hoop-of-er'-o
From G5259 and G5342; to bear from underneath, that is, (figuratively) to undergo hardship: - bear, endure.
Total KJV occurrences: 3

To escape by bearing it in this context isn't to be raptured away but to be able to bear what is going to come, to undergo hardship. Christians survive the great tribulation are those who escaped in a non-physical sense, being able to bear the tribulations satan brings upon church in that time period. Jesus was also tempted by the devil and Christ escaped those temptations by being spiritually strong and able to undergo the hardship.

can not be the rapture
re read it.
angels do the gathering...not Jesus
they are gathered from heaven...not earth.
but just ignore the rest of Mat 24 where we see a pretrib gathering.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Ok here is something else that makes a postrib rapture impossible.

One taken <> left.
Postribbers claim the one is taken to judgent and the one left behind is the saint.

Note the 50/50 ratio.
So we have a satan worshipper WITH THE MARK in bed with a WILLING believer. The satan worshipper is taken, and the believer is still in bed.
No red flags with that????
Let me help.
What you have inadvertently done is declared that half the worlds population is saved, the other half a righteous virgin.
Just plain bizarre and impossible.
But thanks be to God that he blocked that notion with Noah, and Lot as his depiction.
No such thing as a 50/50 taken and left, UNLESS we see what is there!!!!
the half and half dynamic fits the CHURCH. half on fire and following Jesus intimately the other half, carnal
NOTHING ELSE fits the 50/50 ratio.
We see it vividly declared in the virgins parable.

 

[David in NJ]

and yet the postribber doctrine has to change the components of the virgins parable, as well as the "one taken" dynamic,plus the biggie, Rev 14 in that doctrine can not be Jesus on a cloud holding a sickle.

....all done with no red flags
woah

Revelation ch14 is JESUS on the clouds with a sickle - absolutely True

Matt 25: 1-13 Parable is also simple truth from the Master = a person is either saved or not, you are either "known" or not

RED FLAG ALERT = pre-trib left behind / trib saints

 

[David in NJ]

In rev 14 as well as mat 25, we see two gatherings.
One is the rapture, the other is the gathering of messianic Jews.
the RETURN of Jesus is after the trib, but can not possibly be the rapure as Jesus vividly declared.

RED FLAG ALERT = You are adding to God's words = very BAD

 

[Randy Kluth]

The second coming is in rev 19. millions of white horses blackening the sky.
Trying to make rev 14 into that vivid depiction is ridiculous.
Totally impossible.
You are protecting a doctrine in which you are actually willing to change Gods word.
Woah

That's an absurd argument. The book of Revelation cannot possibly present the 2nd Coming in more than one vision? Silly.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Oh dear.
WE ALL believe he is coming post trib.

Postrib excludes preliminary comings, such as the secret Pretrib Rapture that stops short in the clouds, with millions of Christians being whisked away with nary a concern in the world. Can you see this is a fantasy? The doctrine did not exist before the 1800s! Did the Holy Spirit fail to mention it to earlier Christians throughout the world?

Jesus warned about preliminary Jesus comings that some would proclaim. Jesus called them "False Prophets" and "False Christs."

Matt 24.26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

This statement was meant by Jesus to *exclude* any imminent Rapture proclamations. Yes, we all believe Jesus is coming again in glory to receive his saints and to destroy the Antichrist. But earlier proclamations of Jesus' Coming is in cultic territory. And cults have been wrong in their pronouncements over and over again.

They either do not take Jesus' warning seriously, or simply wish to find a way around it to protect their "right" to say what they want to believe, to predict future things when Jesus warned us that God alone controls the "times and the seasons."

Acts 1.7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority."

 

[rebuilder 454]

That's an absurd argument. The book of Revelation cannot possibly present the 2nd Coming in more than one vision? Silly.

The second coming does not involve millions of white horses with riders ( saints in white robes) descending from heaven?
Rev 14 does not have Jesus sitting on a cloud holding a sickle and harvesting the earth?

"The book of Revelation cannot possibly present the 2nd Coming in more than one vision? Silly."

Change it if you must. Glad I can read it like it says.
Your doctrine needs a lot of creativity huh?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Postrib excludes preliminary comings, such as the secret Pretrib Rapture that stops short in the clouds, with millions of Christians being whisked away with nary a concern in the world. Can you see this is a fantasy? The doctrine did not exist before the 1800s! Did the Holy Spirit fail to mention it to earlier Christians throughout the world?

Jesus warned about preliminary Jesus comings that some would proclaim. Jesus called them "False Prophets" and "False Christs."

Matt 24.26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

This statement was meant by Jesus to *exclude* any imminent Rapture proclamations. Yes, we all believe Jesus is coming again in glory to receive his saints and to destroy the Antichrist. But earlier proclamations of Jesus' Coming is in cultic territory. And cults have been wrong in their pronouncements over and over again.

They either do not take Jesus' warning seriously, or simply wish to find a way around it to protect their "right" to say what they want to believe, to predict future things when Jesus warned us that God alone controls the "times and the seasons."

Acts 1.7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority."

Note
the coming of Jesus to gather the elect of rev 14 does not show him touching ground.
The rapture of mat 25 in the virgin story also has Jesus comint the virgins,then RETURNING TO HEAVEN ...not in line with postribbers uturn to earth.
Total extrabiblical postrib doctrine fabrication.

we see one coming to earth with the saints on white horses AFTER the gt
We see no rapture postrib.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Postrib excludes preliminary comings, such as the secret Pretrib Rapture that stops short in the clouds, with millions of Christians being whisked away with nary a concern in the world. Can you see this is a fantasy? The doctrine did not exist before the 1800s! Did the Holy Spirit fail to mention it to earlier Christians throughout the world?

Jesus warned about preliminary Jesus comings that some would proclaim. Jesus called them "False Prophets" and "False Christs."

Matt 24.26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

This statement was meant by Jesus to *exclude* any imminent Rapture proclamations. Yes, we all believe Jesus is coming again in glory to receive his saints and to destroy the Antichrist. But earlier proclamations of Jesus' Coming is in cultic territory. And cults have been wrong in their pronouncements over and over again.

They either do not take Jesus' warning seriously, or simply wish to find a way around it to protect their "right" to say what they want to believe, to predict future things when Jesus warned us that God alone controls the "times and the seasons."

Acts 1.7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority."

LOL
You skip the rapture verses.
Try them on at your own risk as they refute your entire doctrine.
You have to keep all verses on the table.
Skipping the rapture verses is very telling friend