A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

[David in NJ]

Well, surely you will agree, I think, that no one can hide from God. To Him we are all exposed, even though we may hide ~ either physically or spiritually speaking, but even more so spiritually, which is the point of that particular passage of Genesis as well as the rest of scripture.

But if you are talking about John 3 and Jesus's conversation with Nicodemus and particularly what Jesus says in John 3:8... and thus propagating that the answer to your question is the Holy Spirit, as He is "like the wind," I agree in principle. However, nowhere in Genesis 3 do we read about any wind, and Jesus is talking in Genesis 3 about being born again of the Spirit, and that's not happening in Genesis 3; Adam and Eve died that day, just as God said they would in Genesis 2:17 ~ they became dead in their sin.

I will say again that I think the Holy Spirit was present, but He was not the only Member of the triune Jehovah present in Eden in Genesis 3. The Father is Spirit (John 4:24), and the Holy Spirit is, well, Spirit, of course, so do they make the sound of walking, as we read in Genesis 3:8? I say no, and in view of that, I say Jesus was there, too. :)

But it's really not of any great importance that we agree on this.

Grace and peace to you.

Correct: You cannot hide from the wind but it was not the Wind they were hiding from.

Genesis, especially chapters 1-3 are of GREAT Importance.........PEACE

 

[Rich R]

The LORD gave the answer in His Gospel - there you will find who manifested to Adam & Eve whereby they hid themselves.

Clue: You cannot hide from the wind.

Very interesting. Never saw that before. Of course one must accept the actual meaning of "spirit" (Hebrew rauch) as an invisible force for that to make sense.

 

[David in NJ]

Very interesting. Never saw that before. Of course one must accept the actual meaning of "spirit" (Hebrew rauch) as an invisible force for that to make sense.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.
So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[Pierac]

For anyone to truly know who Christ is they first must be Born-Again by the Spirit of God.

They also must pray for the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive.

The Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit and HE will only speak Truth and guide us into Truth.

The LORD Jesus says: I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but thru ME."

The Apostle John beheld the miracles done by Christ,watched Him suffer and die on the Cross, witnessed His resurrection from the dead and His Ascension into Heaven as well as seeing His Glory, the Glory HE had with the Father before the creation of all things which HE Himself created.

The Apostle John says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made."

This is where you need to start from = TRUTH
For if you do not believe the TRUTH then you do not know Christ.

Yet... Can you ADMIT that Jesus has a GOD??? like He teaches? It's pretty simple!!!

You can not Be God and then claim to have one!!! Silly Child... You show your ignorance!

I'm trying to help you David but you fight God's message at every verse that does not support your Church beliefs!

Let me leave you with this... Jesus own words whom you reject!!!
Jesus calls himself "a man" john 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
and the apostles(Acts 2:22; 1 Tim. 2:5). Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

David!!! You can not be God... and then claim to have one... Do the Math!!!

Seriously, you need to question what your told to believe or continue to let me make you look STUPID!!!

Paul

 

[David in NJ]

Yet... Can you ADMIT that Jesus has a GOD??? like He teaches? It's pretty simple!!!

You can not Be God and then claim to have one!!! Silly Child... You show your ignorance!

I'm trying to help you David but you fight God's message at every verse that does not support your Church beliefs!

Let me leave you with this... Jesus own words whom you reject!!!
Jesus calls himself "a man" john 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.
and the apostles(Acts 2:22; 1 Tim. 2:5). Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know--

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

David!!! You can not be God... and then claim to have one... Do the Math!!!

Seriously, you need to question what your told to believe or continue to let me make you look STUPID!!!

Paul

SERIOUSLY - you need to worship at the feet of JESUS

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God
something to be grasped, but emptied Himself,
taking the form of a servant,
being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross.
Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place
and gave Him the name above all names,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

If you are not worshipping JESUS you are not worshipping God.
No one comes to the Father but thru the SON, including worship.

 

[Pierac]

The devil may tempt you, but if there is nothing in you to be drawn towards the sin, you are not tempted. Do you see?

Claiming you are making me look stupid is just more of your condescension.

Do you realize that God is the God of all flesh, therefore, when Jesus took on flesh, He took on all that went with it?

Perhaps you are able to give a reasonable answer to a question. No one who does not accept the deity of Jesus has been able to answer. I predict you will engage in more personal response - ad hominem - rather than answer this question, but hey, I'd love to be surprised!

First read this passage,

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Now, take particular note where God says here,

took upon him the form of a servant
he humbled himself
became obedient unto death

Here is my question. What was Jesus before He did those things?

He "took on the form of a servant". What was He before taking on the form of a servant? Was He LORD?

He humbled Himself. What was He before that? Glorious?

He became obedient. What was He before? Sovereign?

Much love!

Look... Your the one whom said God can not be tempted by evil... Yet I showed you Jesus being tempted by Satan... You failed to do the math... Now your bring Philippians into the situation.... Really?

Bend over and grab your spiritual ankles... I'm about to give you another Spiritual spanking!!!

Emptied Himself
Now to the second phrase in Philippians 2 that causes YOU a difficulty. It is the one that says Jesus Christ "did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself (v. 6-7). It is unfortunate that the Old King James version of the Bible translated this verse completely wrong. It reads that Jesus "thought it not robbery to be equal with God" and gives the impression that as the preexistent God, Jesus did not think there was anything wrong in being considered equal with God.

It ought to be clear by now that this is the exact opposite of what is meant. The whole context of the passage is about being humble, putting God's will and glory first, and serving others’ interest above one's own interest. Although he was in "the form of God" Jesus did not reckon his God-given status as something to be exploited.

This meaning contrast well with the conduct of Adam who unfortunately did consider equality with God anything to be grasped at. Adam wanted to be like God as Genesis 3:5 teaches. Adam tried to grasp at equality with God. But Jesus would not usurp God's authority for selfish advantage. He said, "I came to serve" (Matt. 20:28), not to snatch! At his arrest in the garden, he said, "Do you not think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and He will at once put at my disposal more than 12 legions of angels?" (Matthew 26:53). As the Messiah, God's appointed King, he had every right to call for divine protection. He "emptied himself" of all such Messianic privileges.

Therefore, it can be categorically stated that Philippians 2: 5-11 has nothing to do with Jesus Christ being God in a preexistence state. The importance is really very simple and very practical: how are Christians to conduct themselves in this world? Not by imitating the man Adam who forfeited everything by a grab for power and glory, but by imitating Jesus the Messiah (v.5) who through humility and obedience to God gained it all and more. After all, if Jesus was already God, then verses 9 to 11 are nonsensical. There is no "Therefore also God highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth." If he was already God, he had this before his birth! No. It is clear that God has given him a new position, a new name (authority), and a new rank that he did not previously possess.

The Greek is very clear here: dio kai means (as in Luke 1:35) "for this reason precisely." Why has God exalted Jesus to His right hand? "Therefore, God has highly exalted him and given him the name above every other name because he is back where he was before as God"? Not at all! He is given the status as a reward for the precise reason that he humbled himself and died. His exalted status is a reward. If we follow the last Adam's pattern, we too will be exalted by God when Christ returns. It is evident, then, that "this hymn does not contained what numerous interpreters seek and find in it: an independent statement about preexistence or even a Christology preexistence… No preexistence of Christ before the world with an independent significance can be recognized even in Philippians 2.

This is the creed of ALL Orthodox Christian Beliefs! All of them!

DEFINITION OF THE COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON (451 AD)

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.

So pay close attention!!! .... The Kenotic Doctrine claims that Jesus emptied himself of his deity. Well, you can simply read in the Chalcedon Creed that it defines Jesus’ nature as fully God and fully man at all times, without division, without separation. You cannot say that you believe in the Trinity and use this excuse. If you subscribe to the Kenotic Doctrine, then you have already rejected the Trinity. You cannot be both.

PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU POST!!!
Paul

 

[Pierac]

SERIOUSLY - you need to worship at the feet of JESUS

If you are not worshipping JESUS you are not worshipping God.
No one comes to the Father but thru the SON, including worship.

Yet Jesus himself told us... Differently!!!! STOP following your Pastor!!! And listen to JESUS... MY Lord and KING in the coming Kingdom... Not my God!!!

Bend over and grab your spiritual ankles... I'm about to give you a spiritual spanking not unlike the one given to the money changers received at the temple by Jesus Himself!!!

If we may let our Lord and King have the final word. Jesus plainly states, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be his worshipers. God is spirit; and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24). Who does Jesus declare are the "true worshipers"? He insists, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father…" If we would be amongst the true worshipers we must be with Jesus worshiping this Father. Evidently, those who worship "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, three persons in one God," Are not said by Jesus to be the true worshippers. Those who worship the Father as the "only true God" are. The worshipper of the One God, the Father, as Jesus’ own affirmation that he is the true worshipper.

This is the biblical pattern throughout. The so-called Lord's prayer, the model prayer, teaches us to "pray in this way: our Father who art in heaven…"(Matt. 6:9). This pattern of prayer and worship prescribed by our Lord Jesus is followed and sanctioned by every example given in Scripture. See the following:

“Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus; that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom.15:5-6).

" For this reason I bow my knees before the Father," (Eph 3:14)

" giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, " (Eph 5:20)

"And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father "through" him." (Col 3:17)

This list is by no means exhaustive. But it is sufficient to show that we are, with our Lord Jesus, to worship and pray to the Father. This is the usual pattern of prayer and worship in the New Testament. They prayed to the one God through the name or authority of Jesus Christ. They
evidently were not aware that the Holy Spirit was God (a third person), for wherein all the pages of the Bible to the Saints pray to the Holy Spirit? And where in all the pages of Scripture do the worshipers of God sing to the Holy Spirit as is the general custom within Christendom today?

To all of this there is a very simple solution. Once again it comes back to a failure to understand biblical culture; a failure to read the Bible through Hebrew eyes. In the Old Testament in main Hebrew word for worship is shachah. It occurs about 170 times but the surprising thing is that only about half of this number relate to the worship of God as God. This fact is hidden in our English translations. The translators prefer to say "bow down to" or "revere" when shachah refers to homage paid to noble persons, whether Angels or men, but say "worship" when God is the object. This is a false distinction the original texts does not support. Here are just a view examples:

Lot "worshiped" the two strangers who looked like normal travelers as they entered Sodom (Gen. 19:1).

Abraham "worshipped" the Gentile leaders of the land where he lived (Gen. 23:7).

Jacob "worshipped" his older brother Esau (Gen. 33:3).

Joseph's brothers "worshipped" him (Gen. 43:26).

Ruth "worshipped" Boaz (Ruth 2:10).

The whole congregation "worshipped" the King (1 Chron. 9:20).

These are just a few instances of the many that could be cited to show the reluctance of the translators to consistently translate shachah as "worship" when worship of important persons was obviously a common feature of Hebrew culture. In Scripture worship is offered to God and to
men. There is no special word and the Old Testament for "worship" reserved exclusively for God. But there is a reluctance to translate this one-word consistently. If you looked up your English translations of the above verses you will find that you do not use the "w" word. They prefer to say
"bowed down" or "revered" or "pay homage to" instead of "worshiped." This inconsistency of translation has created the false impression that only God can be worshiped.
So then, how do we explain this in light of the clear command that we are to worship God the Father alone as both the first commandment and Jesus himself command? Is this a contradiction after all? No way. The answer is that whenever men "worshiped" other men it was a relative
worship. In most of the examples above it is clear that the ones worshiped were God's representatives. Once again we are back to the principle of Jewish agency. The Israelites had no difficulty in offering this proportional or relative worship to the ones who came in Gods Name, with God's message. It is obvious that the first commandment "You must not bow yourself down [shachah] to them nor serve them" is not a prohibition against a relative worship of those worthy of it. If this was the case then obviously all these Old Testament godly men and women sinned greatly. To worship him (Jesus) as Lord Messiah is thus a divinely pleasing but subordinate or relative worship. It is instructive to read that in the coming Kingdom the Lord Jesus will orchestrate the worship of his brethren in the ultimate praise of his Father. He will "proclaim" the Name of God to his "brothers" and he will "in the mist of the congregation singing your praise" (Heb. 2:12).
There, in that glorious Kingdom, Jesus Christ will continue to be a joyful worshiper of God his Father. Thus, the one God and Father he is alone worshiped absolutely. All other divinely appointed worship is homage to persons who are not God himself. Jesus is among those worthy of such worship for he is worshiped as the one Messiah, God's supreme son and agent.

Jesus knew the prophecy: "Worship the Lord with reverence, and… do homage to the Son" (Ps.2: 11-12). Jesus knew God his Father had decreed "Let all the Angels of God worship him"

(Psalms 97:7). Jesus knew that the angelic messengers of Jehovah had in the past received relative worship from God-pleasing men and women. Jesus knew that of the one true God could be addressed by agents as though they were God. And Jesus knew he was the Son and ultimately agent of God, so how much greater his destiny! As the "only begotten Son" whom the father had "sealed" and commissioned he knew that whoever honored him honored the Father also. This was his Father's decree (Psalms 2:11-12; 97:7).

Come on David... Read scripture for yourself and stop following the teachings of men...
Paul

 

[David in NJ]

Yet Jesus himself told us... Differently!!!! STOP following your Pastor!!! And listen to JESUS... MY Lord and KING in the coming Kingdom... Not my God!!!

Bend over and grab your spiritual ankles... I'm about to give you a spiritual spanking not unlike the one given to the money changers received at the temple by Jesus Himself!!!

If we may let our Lord and King have the final word. Jesus plainly states, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be his worshipers. God is spirit; and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24). Who does Jesus declare are the "true worshipers"? He insists, "the true worshipers shall worship the Father…" If we would be amongst the true worshipers we must be with Jesus worshiping this Father. Evidently, those who worship "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, three persons in one God," Are not said by Jesus to be the true worshippers. Those who worship the Father as the "only true God" are. The worshipper of the One God, the Father, as Jesus’ own affirmation that he is the true worshipper.

This is the biblical pattern throughout. The so-called Lord's prayer, the model prayer, teaches us to "pray in this way: our Father who art in heaven…"(Matt. 6:9). This pattern of prayer and worship prescribed by our Lord Jesus is followed and sanctioned by every example given in Scripture. See the following:

“Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus; that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom.15:5-6).

" For this reason I bow my knees before the Father," (Eph 3:14)

" giving thanks always and for everything to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, " (Eph 5:20)

"And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father "through" him." (Col 3:17)

This list is by no means exhaustive. But it is sufficient to show that we are, with our Lord Jesus, to worship and pray to the Father. This is the usual pattern of prayer and worship in the New Testament. They prayed to the one God through the name or authority of Jesus Christ. They
evidently were not aware that the Holy Spirit was God (a third person), for wherein all the pages of the Bible to the Saints pray to the Holy Spirit? And where in all the pages of Scripture do the worshipers of God sing to the Holy Spirit as is the general custom within Christendom today?

To all of this there is a very simple solution. Once again it comes back to a failure to understand biblical culture; a failure to read the Bible through Hebrew eyes. In the Old Testament in main Hebrew word for worship is shachah. It occurs about 170 times but the surprising thing is that only about half of this number relate to the worship of God as God. This fact is hidden in our English translations. The translators prefer to say "bow down to" or "revere" when shachah refers to homage paid to noble persons, whether Angels or men, but say "worship" when God is the object. This is a false distinction the original texts does not support. Here are just a view examples:

Lot "worshiped" the two strangers who looked like normal travelers as they entered Sodom (Gen. 19:1).

Abraham "worshipped" the Gentile leaders of the land where he lived (Gen. 23:7).

Jacob "worshipped" his older brother Esau (Gen. 33:3).

Joseph's brothers "worshipped" him (Gen. 43:26).

Ruth "worshipped" Boaz (Ruth 2:10).

The whole congregation "worshipped" the King (1 Chron. 9:20).

These are just a few instances of the many that could be cited to show the reluctance of the translators to consistently translate shachah as "worship" when worship of important persons was obviously a common feature of Hebrew culture. In Scripture worship is offered to God and to
men. There is no special word and the Old Testament for "worship" reserved exclusively for God. But there is a reluctance to translate this one-word consistently. If you looked up your English translations of the above verses you will find that you do not use the "w" word. They prefer to say
"bowed down" or "revered" or "pay homage to" instead of "worshiped." This inconsistency of translation has created the false impression that only God can be worshiped.
So then, how do we explain this in light of the clear command that we are to worship God the Father alone as both the first commandment and Jesus himself command? Is this a contradiction after all? No way. The answer is that whenever men "worshiped" other men it was a relative
worship. In most of the examples above it is clear that the ones worshiped were God's representatives. Once again we are back to the principle of Jewish agency. The Israelites had no difficulty in offering this proportional or relative worship to the ones who came in Gods Name, with God's message. It is obvious that the first commandment "You must not bow yourself down [shachah] to them nor serve them" is not a prohibition against a relative worship of those worthy of it. If this was the case then obviously all these Old Testament godly men and women sinned greatly. To worship him (Jesus) as Lord Messiah is thus a divinely pleasing but subordinate or relative worship. It is instructive to read that in the coming Kingdom the Lord Jesus will orchestrate the worship of his brethren in the ultimate praise of his Father. He will "proclaim" the Name of God to his "brothers" and he will "in the mist of the congregation singing your praise" (Heb. 2:12).
There, in that glorious Kingdom, Jesus Christ will continue to be a joyful worshiper of God his Father. Thus, the one God and Father he is alone worshiped absolutely. All other divinely appointed worship is homage to persons who are not God himself. Jesus is among those worthy of such worship for he is worshiped as the one Messiah, God's supreme son and agent.

Jesus knew the prophecy: "Worship the Lord with reverence, and… do homage to the Son" (Ps.2: 11-12). Jesus knew God his Father had decreed "Let all the Angels of God worship him"

(Psalms 97:7). Jesus knew that the angelic messengers of Jehovah had in the past received relative worship from God-pleasing men and women. Jesus knew that of the one true God could be addressed by agents as though they were God. And Jesus knew he was the Son and ultimately agent of God, so how much greater his destiny! As the "only begotten Son" whom the father had "sealed" and commissioned he knew that whoever honored him honored the Father also. This was his Father's decree (Psalms 2:11-12; 97:7).

Come on David... Read scripture for yourself and stop following the teachings of men...
Paul

You will never worship the FATHER apart from the SON = you do not even understand what JESUS was saying in those verses you post.

Are you a confused unrepentant jehovah witness???

 

[Pierac]

For anyone to truly know who Christ is they first must be Born-Again by the Spirit of God.

They also must pray for the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive.

The Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit and HE will only speak Truth and guide us into Truth.

The LORD Jesus says: I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but thru ME."

The Apostle John beheld the miracles done by Christ,watched Him suffer and die on the Cross, witnessed His resurrection from the dead and His Ascension into Heaven as well as seeing His Glory, the Glory HE had with the Father before the creation of all things which HE Himself created.

The Apostle John says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made."

This is where you need to start from = TRUTH
For if you do not believe the TRUTH then you do not know Christ.

Now your finally starting to see...

NASB Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws (DRAGS) him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

What does that mean David???

NASB Joh 6:65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

Again David... What the Hell/Grave is going on???

NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Yea, David.... you never saw such scripture in your Church... but I'm the bad guy for showing you the truth!

NASB Joh 17:2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.

NASB Mar 4:11 And he said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven." and so... When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. Act 13:48

David... It's now time for you to leave your traditions of men and follow Jesus... Act 13:48 tells you whom will be in the coming Kingdom... We don't have a say... It's all by lot!


Net Eph 1:11 In Christ28 we too have been claimed as God's own possession,29(G280)
since we were predestined (G4309) according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes
all things according to the counsel of his will

29 tn Grk "we were appointed by lot." The notion of the verb κληρόω (klēroō) in the OT was to "appoint a portion by lot" (the more frequent cognate verb κληρονομέω [klēronomeō] meant "obtain a portion by lot"). In the passive, as here, the idea is that "we were appointed [as a portion] by lot" (BDAG 548 s.v. κληρόω 1). The words "God's own" have been supplied in the translation to clarify this sense of the verb. An alternative interpretation is that believers receive a portion as an inheritance: "In Christ we too have been appointed a portion of the inheritance." See H. W. Hoehner, Ephesians, 226-27, for discussion on this interpretive issue.

Word study
G2820
κληρόω
klēróō; contracted klērṓ, fut. klērṓsō, from klḗros (G2819), a lot. To cast lots, determine by lot, i.e., to determine something, choose someone. In Eph_1:11, it means, "in whom the lot has fallen upon us also, as foreordained thereto . . . to be" (a.t.). The idea expressed here is that Christians have become heirs of God due to the fact that God predestined them according to His purpose. In a manner of speaking, the "lot" fell to believers not by chance but solely because of the gracious and sovereign decision of God- Almighty to select them to be His heirs.

Deriv.: prosklēróō (G4345), to give or assign by lot.

Seems.... We have a Lot to learn.... David
Paul

 

[Pierac]

You will never worship the FATHER apart from the SON = you do not even understand what JESUS was saying in those verses you post.

Are you a confused unrepentant jehovah witness???

Jehovah Witness??? Are you kidding me... ???
Yea.... You will think different when you read my last post...
Paul

 

[David in NJ]

Now your finally starting to see...

NASB Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws (DRAGS) him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

What does that mean David???

NASB Joh 6:65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

Again David... What the Hell/Grave is going on???

NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Yea, David.... you never saw such scripture in your Church... but I'm the bad guy for showing you the truth!

NASB Joh 17:2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.

NASB Mar 4:11 And he said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven." and so... When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. Act 13:48

David... It's now time for you to leave your traditions of men and follow Jesus... Act 13:48 tells you whom will be in the coming Kingdom... We don't have a say... It's all by lot!

Net Eph 1:11 In Christ28 we too have been claimed as God's own possession,29(G280)
since we were predestined (G4309) according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes
all things according to the counsel of his will

29 tn Grk "we were appointed by lot." The notion of the verb κληρόω (klēroō) in the OT was to "appoint a portion by lot" (the more frequent cognate verb κληρονομέω [klēronomeō] meant "obtain a portion by lot"). In the passive, as here, the idea is that "we were appointed [as a portion] by lot" (BDAG 548 s.v. κληρόω 1). The words "God's own" have been supplied in the translation to clarify this sense of the verb. An alternative interpretation is that believers receive a portion as an inheritance: "In Christ we too have been appointed a portion of the inheritance." See H. W. Hoehner, Ephesians, 226-27, for discussion on this interpretive issue.

Word study
G2820
κληρόω
klēróō; contracted klērṓ, fut. klērṓsō, from klḗros (G2819), a lot. To cast lots, determine by lot, i.e., to determine something, choose someone. In Eph_1:11, it means, "in whom the lot has fallen upon us also, as foreordained thereto . . . to be" (a.t.). The idea expressed here is that Christians have become heirs of God due to the fact that God predestined them according to His purpose. In a manner of speaking, the "lot" fell to believers not by chance but solely because of the gracious and sovereign decision of God- Almighty to select them to be His heirs.
Deriv.: prosklēróō (G4345), to give or assign by lot.

Seems.... We have a Lot to learn.... David
Paul

lol
All these scriptures i am fully aware and in step with/according to the Spirit.
You still have completely missed what the LORD says in John chapter 4
As well as Genesis, Exodus and Isaiah.

Because you do not understand the Word who was God in the Beginning you will miss out on the rest of scripture.

 

[David in NJ]

Now your finally starting to see...

NASB Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws (DRAGS) him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

What does that mean David???

NASB Joh 6:65 And He was saying, "For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father."

Again David... What the Hell/Grave is going on???

NASB Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Yea, David.... you never saw such scripture in your Church... but I'm the bad guy for showing you the truth!

NASB Joh 17:2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.

NASB Mar 4:11 And he said to them, "To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, 12 so that indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven." and so... When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed. Act 13:48

David... It's now time for you to leave your traditions of men and follow Jesus... Act 13:48 tells you whom will be in the coming Kingdom... We don't have a say... It's all by lot!


Net Eph 1:11 In Christ28 we too have been claimed as God's own possession,29(G280)
since we were predestined (G4309) according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes
all things according to the counsel of his will

29 tn Grk "we were appointed by lot." The notion of the verb κληρόω (klēroō) in the OT was to "appoint a portion by lot" (the more frequent cognate verb κληρονομέω [klēronomeō] meant "obtain a portion by lot"). In the passive, as here, the idea is that "we were appointed [as a portion] by lot" (BDAG 548 s.v. κληρόω 1). The words "God's own" have been supplied in the translation to clarify this sense of the verb. An alternative interpretation is that believers receive a portion as an inheritance: "In Christ we too have been appointed a portion of the inheritance." See H. W. Hoehner, Ephesians, 226-27, for discussion on this interpretive issue.

Word study
G2820
κληρόω
klēróō; contracted klērṓ, fut. klērṓsō, from klḗros (G2819), a lot. To cast lots, determine by lot, i.e., to determine something, choose someone. In Eph_1:11, it means, "in whom the lot has fallen upon us also, as foreordained thereto . . . to be" (a.t.). The idea expressed here is that Christians have become heirs of God due to the fact that God predestined them according to His purpose. In a manner of speaking, the "lot" fell to believers not by chance but solely because of the gracious and sovereign decision of God- Almighty to select them to be His heirs.

Deriv.: prosklēróō (G4345), to give or assign by lot.

Seems.... We have a Lot to learn.... David
Paul

Nothing new here to learn since i have been called and chosen and washed in His Blood and Sanctified in the Truth of His Word.

ALL THREE of the ELOHIM have been established by His Will upon me with more to come.

 

[PinSeeker]

Correct: You cannot hide from the wind but it was not the Wind they were hiding from.

David, Jesus, in His conversation with Nicodemus in John 8, cites the wind as metaphorical of the Holy Spirit, Who comes and goes as He wishes. Wind does not "wish," or think in any way. We "hear" the Holy Spirit in that we experience the effects He has on/in us. I'm being a bit facetious, but surely you understand that the Holy Spirit is not literally a wind gust. Right? And the wind is not actually a living entity as the Holy Spirit is. Yes, Adam and Eve were hiding from God. All three Persons of Him. :)

Genesis, especially chapters 1-3 are of GREAT Importance.

Certainly they are. Absolutely. All of God's Counsel is of infinite importance. Yes, I did say that, regarding this particular thing (which of the three Persons of the triune Jehovah were present in Genesis 3) that our agreement is "not of great importance," but that is a totally different comment from anything directly regarding God's Word.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[marks]

PLEASE THINK BEFORE YOU POST!!!
Paul

You side stepped my question. I guess you must not like it.

Much love!

PS . . . your fonts are larger, your colors more . . . what is that saying?

 

[David in NJ]

David, Jesus, in His conversation with Nicodemus in John 8, cites the wind as metaphorical of the Holy Spirit, Who comes and goes as He wishes. Wind does not "wish," or think in any way. We "hear" the Holy Spirit in that we experience the effects He has on/in us. I'm being a bit facetious, but surely you understand that the Holy Spirit is not literally a wind gust. Right? And the wind is not actually a living entity as the Holy Spirit is. Yes, Adam and Eve were hiding from God. All three Persons of Him. :)


Certainly they are. Absolutely. All of God's Counsel is of infinite importance. Yes, I did say that, regarding this particular thing (which of the three Persons of the triune Jehovah were present in Genesis 3) that our agreement is "not of great importance," but that is a totally different comment from anything directly regarding God's Word.

Grace and peace to you.

YES, YES i fully understand that the wind is not the Holy Spirit - Jesus was using part of His Creation to explain the Unseen Holy Spirit that can, just like the wind, be felt/experience His Movement in our spirit/heart, on the inward man that was made in His Image.

All THREE = YES but only One was seen/experienced by Adam & Eve
The LORD spoke of this in His Gospel.
Let me know when you find Him speaking of it.

May the Grace and Peace of our LORD Jesus Christ be upon all who call upon His Name - Amen

 

[tigger 2]

YES, YES i fully understand that the wind is not the Holy Spirit - Jesus was using part of His Creation to explain the Unseen Holy Spirit that can, just like the wind, be felt/experience His Movement in our spirit/heart, on the inward man that was made in His Image.

All THREE = YES but only One was seen/experienced by Adam & Eve
The LORD spoke of this in His Gospel.
Let me know when you find Him speaking of it.

May the Grace and Peace of our LORD Jesus Christ be upon all who call upon His Name - Amen

.........................................

You very often use the word "three" to describe God. Except for the spurious 1 John 5:7 in KJV, can you show just one place where actual scripture uses the word "three" to describe or refer to God?

 

[David in NJ]

.........................................

You very often use the word "three" to describe God. Except for the spurious 1 John 5:7 in KJV, can you show just one place where actual scripture uses the word "three" to describe or refer to God?

"Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness" = 3

 

[tigger 2]

"Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness" = 3

Please read very carefully: You very often use the word "three" to describe God. Except for the spurious 1 John 5:7 in KJV, can you show just one place where actual scripture uses the word "three" to describe or refer to God?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus says to you, and me, "I am the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE" = 3
You can start Today, if you Hear His Voice......harden not your heart.......Jesus, the Way the Truth the LIFE............PEACE to my Aunty Jane

Thank you David but I already have peace with my God.

In what way is Jesus claiming to be “God” by telling his disciples that he was “the way, the truth and the life”? Does the number three always mean a trinity to you? Apparently so.....the scriptures you refer to have no validity since you misconstrue them and see only what you want to see in them.

Adam and Eve heard the Voice of God walking and hid themselves

I "heard the voice of God” (spiritually speaking) 50 years ago when he called me out of false “Christianity” and taught me the truth from his word. It is something I have studied very carefully ever since. I have made sure that my beliefs are soundly supported by the Bible.....and that all beliefs and doctrines are not adopted from false worship.....Christendom is full of them. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

Because you have no reply to any scripture you have been given, but continue to parrot off what your church has taught you (for who knows how long) I assume that you don’t want to know the truth but are happy believing the lies, because to admit you might have been wrong for so long is unthinkable......so be it....I sincerely hope that God will call you out of that rabble and teach you HIS truth. He won't make that choice for you however.

It’s the “harvest time”, when Jesus will send his angels out to gather the “weeds” of false Christianity, “sown by the devil” and dispose of them.
Since “few” are on the road to life, it is up to all of us to make sure that what we have been taught is not a clever counterfeit concocted by the devil, designed to ensnare the masses who never read the scriptures for themselves.

Christendom's version of Christianity IMO, is not even close to what Jesus taught and they disobey him in every way. The "mother church" has many 'daughters' who are all as guilty as she is for promoting the devil's lies. God knows who is teaching the truth.....I wish you...that TRUTH.

 

[Keiw]

If this is what you actually believe - you completely missed FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT and, just like the Jews who confronted Jesus,
you have greatly erred in your scriptural understanding.

You should read prov 8. There is 0 doubt its the being sent to earth by God.