70 AD revisited

[Eternally Grateful]

It is not about us , Israel or anyone else. Its all about Messiah saving the world through his blood to put away our sins.



5 This is the message [of God’s promised revelation] which we have heard from Him and now announce to you, that God is Light [He is holy, His message is truthful, He is perfect in righteousness], and in Him there is no darkness at all [no sin, no wickedness, no imperfection]. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness [of sin], we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we [really] walk in the Light [that is, live each and every day in conformity with the precepts of God], as He Himself is in the Light, we have [true, unbroken] fellowship with one another [He with us, and we with Him], and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin [by erasing the stain of sin, keeping us cleansed from sin in all its forms and manifestations].

8 If we say we have no sin [refusing to admit that we are sinners], we delude ourselves and the truth is not in us. [His word does not live in our hearts.] 9 If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just [true to His own nature and promises], and will forgive our sins and cleanse us continually from all unrighteousness [our wrongdoing, everything not in conformity with His will and purpose]. 10 If we say that we have not sinned [refusing to admit acts of sin], we make Him [out to be] a liar [by contradicting Him] and His word is not in us.

We can never put an end to our own sins. Only Jesus can put away our sins and keep us continually cleansed

Forever in his debt.

Thats not what Daniel 9 is about

We can read daniel 9 together. Or we can keep ignoring context and risk misinterpreting what Gabriel was saying to Daniel and why he said it and who he was talking about

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't claim to be a natural Israelite (a physical descendant of the nation of Israel). I claim to be a Spiritual Israelite. Do you not know the difference? How do you interpret this passage:

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Even a spiritual Israelite should understand God and his dealing with physical Israelite. And confirm his promise made to them through Abraham as a nation

Are you unable to just tell me how you think the making of an end of sins will be fulfilled? What good does it do to tell me to read a certain scripture when we both know that I interpret scripture every differently from you. You are the one making a claim here. So, back it up. What are you thinking that Daniel 9:1-23 says about the making of an end of sins? I can't read your mind and know how you interpret that passage. Just tell me how you think the making of an end of sins will occur. Is that asking too much? You would rather just play games? Your unwillingness to give straightforward answers says a lot.

WHEN ISREAL STOPS THEIESIN AGAINST GOD AND RECIEVES THEIR MESSIAH.

70 weeks are given FOR YOUR PEOPLE

to MAKE AN END OF SIN

why was Israel enslaved in Babylon BECAUSE THEY SINNED
Why was Daniel praying? BECAUSE THEY HAD NOT YET REPENTED.


I have told you numerous times man, You do not listen..

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How do i think the end of sins will be revealed?

where do I start

Why does this have to be so complicated? The fact that your view is so convoluted says a lot about what you believe. The truth isn't nearly so convoluted.

Ez 37: and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land. 22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms. 23 They will no longer defilethemselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding,[b] and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

Jer 32: 7 I will surely gather them from all the lands where I banish them in my furious anger and great wrath; I will bring them back to this place and let them live in safety. 38 They will be my people, and I will be their God. 39 I will give them singleness of heart and action, so that they will always fear me and that all will then go well for them and for their children after them.40 I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me. 41 I will rejoice in doing them good and will assuredly plant them in this land with all my heart and soul.

Rom 11:
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own [f]opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be [g]saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

there are many more.. If you do not wish to research yourself I can;t help you

But, you believe that sin will still occur after Jesus returns, right? So, how can you conclude that making an end of sins has anything to do with the literal end of sin when you don't believe that sin will end when He returns since you have the thousand years and Satan's little season following that?

By the way, Jesus has already done everything He needed to do to turn ungodliness from Jacob. What more can He do besides sacrifice Himself for their sins as He already did long ago? The Deliverer already came long ago to turn away ungodliness from Jacob. How can you deny that? It doesn't mean that they all turn away. That isn't something that is forced. Every individual decides whether to do that or not. But, in terms of Jesus's role in it, He already did the work to turn them away from ungodliness long ago.

Acts 3:24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

Read this and then read Romans 11:26-27 and then tell me how it's possible that the Deliverer did not already come out of Zion to turn away ungodliness from Jacob. He clearly already did that. But, again, that doesn't mean they all will do that as you imagine. He doesn't force anyone to do that. Some do, some don't. But, He did everything He had to do to make it possible for each of them to turn away from their sins and be saved.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Even a spiritual Israelite should understand God and his dealing with physical Israelite. And confirm his promise made to them through Abraham as a nation

Who said I didn't understand that? Not me. But, I was simply explaining to you in what sense I considered myself to be an Israelite. You ridiculously acted as if I am claiming to be a natural Israelite, which I'm not. And you noticeably didn't even bother attempting to tell me how you interpret Romans 9:6. You are constantly avoiding backing up your beliefs when challenged.

WHEN ISREAL STOPS THEIESIN AGAINST GOD AND RECIEVES THEIR MESSIAH.

The entire nation? Every individual in Israel? That's nonsense! You must be a Calvinist who thinks God will force that to happen because that's the only way something like that could possibly happen.

70 weeks are given FOR YOUR PEOPLE

Yes, Jesus came to die for them. Of course, we know He also died for Gentiles, but that isn't what the prophecy is about. Only Jesus could accomplish the things referenced in that prophecy. How can you not acknowledge that? You are giving sinful people way too much credit here as if they can basically redeem themselves on their own. That's ridiculous.

to MAKE AN END OF SIN

why was Israel enslaved in Babylon BECAUSE THEY SINNED
Why was Daniel praying? BECAUSE THEY HAD NOT YET REPENTED.


I have told you numerous times man, You do not listen..

Hey man, you are the one not listening. I told you how Daniel 9:24 should be understood and you ignored it. And you've ignored other things I've shown you. And that is because you have extreme doctrinal bias and are unteachable.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Why does this have to be so complicated? The fact that your view is so convoluted says a lot about what you believe. The truth isn't nearly so convoluted.

Yet I gave you 2 OT passages and 1 NT passage which proves Israel will repent. And turn from her sin as a nation. and you can not even discuss it.

And you call My view convoluted??

But, you believe that sin will still occur after Jesus returns, right? So, how can you conclude that making an end of sins has anything to do with the literal end of sin when you don't believe that sin will end when He returns since you have the thousand years and Satan's little season following that?

By the way, Jesus has already done everything He needed to do to turn ungodliness from Jacob. What more can He do besides sacrifice Himself for their sins as He already did long ago? The Deliverer already came long ago to turn away ungodliness from Jacob. How can you deny that? It doesn't mean that they all turn away. That isn't something that is forced. Every individual decides whether to do that or not. But, in terms of Jesus's role in it, He already did the work to turn them away from ungodliness long ago.

Acts 3:24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

Read this and then read Romans 11:26-27 and then tell me how it's possible that the Deliverer did not already come out of Zion to turn away ungodliness from Jacob. He clearly already did that. But, again, that doesn't mean they all will do that as you imagine. He doesn't force anyone to do that. Some do, some don't. But, He did everything He had to do to make it possible for each of them to turn away from their sins and be saved.

People of Israel will still sin. Thats not the sin that is being spoken about. If you would read lev 26 and what Israels sins were that caused God to disperse them m the first place you would understand that

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Who said I didn't understand that? Not me. But, I was simply explaining to you in what sense I considered myself to be an Israelite. You ridiculously acted as if I am claiming to be a natural Israelite, which I'm not. And you noticeably didn't even bother attempting to tell me how you interpret Romans 9:6. You are constantly avoiding backing up your beliefs when challenged.

well you do not understand it. And romans 9 says what it says. I understand it.. You are claiming to be a spiritual Israelite. Which by the way I acknowledged when I said even a spiritual Israelite would understand

Now again you dog me

You’re the one wiht issues. Not me

The entire nation? Every individual in Israel? That's nonsense! You must be a Calvinist who thinks God will force that to happen because that's the only way something like that could possibly happen.

What Did God say
All Israel.

who is all Israel?

God also says they were blinded in part.. which means it has nothign to do with any Gentile believer.

Which is why Paul warned the gentiles (and you and I. Not to boast..

Yes, Jesus came to die for them. Of course, we know He also died for Gentiles, but that isn't what the prophecy is about. Only Jesus could accomplish the things referenced in that prophecy. How can you not acknowledge that? You are giving sinful people way too much credit here as if they can basically redeem themselves on their own. That's ridiculous.

Once again, Read daniel 9, Its not about paying for the sin of people..

funny how you have not even mentioned or attempted to discuss What Daniel prayed

Hey man, you are the one not listening. I told you how Daniel 9:24 should be understood and you ignored it. And you've ignored other things I've shown you. And that is because you have extreme doctrinal bias and are unteachable.

No, I did not ignore it

I just said I o not agree, and explained why.

You will not even discuss it..

Its called pride my friend..

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yet I gave you 2 OT passages and 1 NT passage which proves Israel will repent. And turn from her sin as a nation. and you can not even discuss it.

And you call My view convoluted??

I have been discussing all kinds of scripture, so give me a break. I am going far above and beyond what almost anyone else would be willing to do when it comes to replying to your nonsense. Those scriptures are not saying that literally all Israelites will repent. How could that possibly happen? Are you a Calvinist? Do you see it as something that God predestined to happen with none of them having any responsibility to choose whether to repent or not?

People of Israel will still sin. Thats not the sin that is being spoken about. If you would read lev 26 and what Israels sins were that caused God to disperse them m the first place you would understand that

Only Jesus can make an end of sins. People can't do that. That's why we need Jesus. You just don't have a clue about what Daniel 9:24 is all about and how the six things listed there were fulfilled. Only Jesus could fulfill them and He did. As I showed using NT scripture and as you ignored. So, don't try to tell me I'm ignoring your passages when you said absolutely nothing in response to all the passages I used to support my view of Daniel 9:24.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have been discussing all kinds of scripture, so give me a break. I am going far above and beyond what almost anyone else would be willing to do when it comes to replying to your nonsense. Those scriptures are not saying that literally all Israelites will repent. How could that possibly happen? Are you a Calvinist? Do you see it as something that God predestined to happen with none of them having any responsibility to choose whether to repent or not?

You only discuss scripture you want to

If you read those passages. They Say Jesus will take the nation of Israel Which was scattered and how they will not longer continue in their transgressions.

Now you can take that how you want. But in all three cases. It says basically All israel.

To me, All Israel means all Israel.

The issue is what sins they commited to get them there to begin with. Which we find in Lev 26

don;t say yoou have done more than anyone else. You do just like them, You ignore verses with appear to prove you wrong and will nbot discuss them. And you stick only to the pet verses you think prove you right. And get mad because I do not drop everything and agree with you

Only Jesus can make an end of sins. People can't do that. That's why we need Jesus. You just don't have a clue about what Daniel 9:24 is all about and how the six things listed there were fulfilled. Only Jesus could fulfill them and He did. As I showed using NT scripture and as you ignored. So, don't try to tell me I'm ignoring your passages when you said absolutely nothing in response to all the passages I used to support my view of Daniel 9:24.

Yet in 70 AD. Jesus had rome destroys Israel and scatter them for the first time completely out of Israel. As he promised not only in many OT passages but in Lev 26. And they are still scattered, and still reject him today.

Yet you claim he made an end of their sin.

Like another person told me earlier. You need an english lesson.. Make an end of sin means that sin ceases..

The particular sin in question. When you do not want to understand what that is, because everytime I try to hos you you ignore it

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

well you do not understand it. And romans 9 says what it says. I understand it.. You are claiming to be a spiritual Israelite. Which by the way I acknowledged when I said even a spiritual Israelite would understand

But, you won't tell me how you interpret Romans 9:6-8? Saying it says what it says is meaningless. That doesn't tell me how you understand it.

Now again you dog me

You’re the one wiht issues. Not me

What Did God say
All Israel.

who is all Israel?

If you understood Romans 9:6-8 then you would know. Paul contrasted two Israels there. What some of us call Spiritual Israel (or the Israel of God - Gal 6:15-16) and then there's the physical nation of Israel. The Israel of which all are saved is Spiritual Israel. Paul indicated that spiritual Israel consists of those who are called through Isaac, are the spiritual seed/offspring of Abraham, are the children of God and children of the promise. So, who are called through Issac and are the spiritual seed of Abraham, children of God and children of the promise? Let me show you.

Galatians 4:28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

As you can see, when using scripture to interpret scripture, it's Christians who are called through Isaac, are Abraham's spiritual seed, and are the children of God and of the promise. So, Christians make up Spiritual Israel and we are all saved by way of the new covenant that takes away our sins. The new covenant that Christ established by shedding His blood long ago.

God also says they were blinded in part.. which means it has nothign to do with any Gentile believer.

But, do you know what that means for them to be blinded in part? It means some, but not all, of them were blinded, as Paul showed in Romans 11:1-7. He went on to say in Romans 11:11-14 that the ones who were blinded had stumbled, but not beyond recovery. He then said in verse 14 that he hoped to help save some of them.

Which is why Paul warned the gentiles (and you and I. Not to boast..

Right. He said we should not boast because we will be cut off because of unbelief just like most of them were back then if we don't "stand by faith".

Once again, Read daniel 9, Its not about paying for the sin of people..

You are mistaken to believe that Daniel 9:1-23 has anything to do with Daniel 9:24-27. It doesn't.

funny how you have not even mentioned or attempted to discuss What Daniel prayed

Because it isn't relevant. Why should I waste my time commenting on something that I don't believe is relevant?

No, I did not ignore it

I just said I o not agree, and explained why.

You will not even discuss it..

Its called pride my friend..

Then you must be very proud because you refrained from discussing the many scriptures I referenced to support my view of Daniel 9:24. Take the log out of your own eye before accusing me next time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You only discuss scripture you want to

LOL. Show me where you discussed the scriptures I used to back up my view of Daniel 9:24. Oh, wait, you didn't. Stop being a hypocrite.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But, you won't tell me how you interpret Romans 9:6-8? Saying it says what it says is meaningless. That doesn't tell me how you understand it.

Romans 9 is talking about Israel. The nation and answer the question, Did God make a mistake (chosing Israel)

it would take a whole thread to go through this.

Saying not all are israel is saying not all of Israel are saved.. hence. Not all israel are israel.

But that has nothing to do with this conversation.

If you understood Romans 9:6-8 then you would know. Paul contrasted two Israels there. What some of us call Spiritual Israel (or the Israel of God - Gal 6:15-16) and then there's the physical nation of Israel. The Israel of which all are saved is Spiritual Israel. Paul indicated that spiritual Israel consists of those who are called through Isaac, are the spiritual seed/offspring of Abraham, are the children of God and children of the promise. So, who are called through Issac and are the spiritual seed of Abraham, children of God and children of the promise? Let me show you.

I disagree with that. That is a calvinist interpretation.

Galatians 4:28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise.

Galatians 3:26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

God made a promise to Abraham

In you shall ALL NATIONS be blessed.

Salvation has never been given only to the jew. Thats the point Paul was making in romans 9.

As you can see, when using scripture to interpret scripture, it's Christians who are called through Isaac, are Abraham's spiritual seed, and are the children of God and of the promise. So, Christians make up Spiritual Israel and we are all saved by way of the new covenant that takes away our sins. The new covenant that Christ established by shedding His blood long ago.

We are christians through Jesus the son of Abraham through the promise of abraham

we are neither jew or greek, male or female. Slave or free. We are one in christ.

So you see. How you can still misrepresent what the word says if you do not get the whole picture.

I am not spiritual israel. I am a gentile child of Abraham who am blessed because of the seed of Abraham. Namely Christ.

But, do you know what that means for them to be blinded in part? It means some, but not all, of them were blinded, as Paul showed in Romans 11:1-7. He went on to say in Romans 11:11-14 that the ones who were blinded had stumbled, but not beyond recovery. He then said in verse 14 that he hoped to help save some of them.

Duh…

Blinded in part means just that. Many of ISRAEL are blinded.. Some ar saved (we call this the remnant)

it is NOT SAVED GENTILES..

Right. He said we should not boast because we will be cut off because of unbelief just like most of them were back then if we don't "stand by faith".

We means gentiles as a group. Not induvidual people. We can;t be cut off individually. Our salvation is in christ. Not in what we do.

You are mistaken to believe that Daniel 9:1-23 has anything to do with Daniel 9:24-27. It doesn't

yeah we just ignore the first part of daniel.

Daniel 9 : 24 - 27 is Gabriel’s answer given by Gd for his racer on Dan 9 1. - 23

No wonder you can not comprehend what it means

Because it isn't relevant. Why should I waste my time commenting on something that I don't believe is relevant?


Then you must be very proud because you refrained from discussing the many scriptures I referenced to support my view of Daniel 9:24. Take the log out of your own eye before accusing me next time.

Whether you believe it or not is irreverent, same goes for me

If you refuse to talk about it. Then you can;t say the other person is wrong. Because you can not refute what they say.

People run from passages when they know they can’t argue them

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Romans 9 is talking about Israel. The nation and answer the question, Did God make a mistake (chosing Israel)

it would take a whole thread to go through this.

Saying not all are israel is saying not all of Israel are saved.. hence. Not all israel are israel.

But that has nothing to do with this conversation.

Are you kidding? It has EVERYTHING to do with this conversation. You can't understand what Paul meant when he said "and so all Israel shall be saved" without understanding which Israel he was talking about. Romans 9:6-8 is not that complicated. You have to make things complicated in order to keep your doctrine afloat.

I disagree with that. That is a calvinist interpretation.

LOL. No, it is not. Not even close. Did you not see me criticize Calvinism in another post? Why would I interpret something in a Calvinist way when I'm not a Calvinist? Ridiculous.

God made a promise to Abraham

In you shall ALL NATIONS be blessed.

Salvation has never been given only to the jew. Thats the point Paul was making in romans 9.

That's one of the points he made, sure. But, not the only one.

We are christians through Jesus the son of Abraham through the promise of abraham

we are neither jew or greek, male or female. Slave or free. We are one in christ.

So you see. How you can still misrepresent what the word says if you do not get the whole picture.

Why are you not taking what you said here and applying it to your understanding of Romans 9:6-8? In that passage Paul talked about an Israel that consists of the children of God and of the promise and he said it has nothing to do with where someone physically descended from. But, you make one's nationality more important than anything else.

I am not spiritual israel. I am a gentile child of Abraham who am blessed because of the seed of Abraham. Namely Christ.

Paul used that same description in Romans 9:6-8 to described Spiritual Israelites. So, you are one whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Duh…

As I suspected, I'm dealing with an immature child here...

Blinded in part means just that. Many of ISRAEL are blinded.. Some ar saved (we call this the remnant)

it is NOT SAVED GENTILES..

Both Gentile and Israelite believers fit the description of Spiritual Israel that Paul gave in Romans 9:6-8. No wonder you want to just dismiss that passage as if it wasn't relevant.

We means gentiles as a group. Not induvidual people. We can;t be cut off individually. Our salvation is in christ. Not in what we do.

Wow. You obviously don't understand that the olive tree allegory that Paul told in Romans 11 represents individual salvation in Christ. What he said there is no different than what he had said earlier more plainly:

Romans 10:11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Being grafted into the olive tree because of faith equates to being saved by calling on the name of the Lord. Being cut off the olive tree because of unbelief equates to an individual being cut off. How can Gentiles as a group be cut off unless every Gentile was in unbelief? Are you and I going to be cut off if many other Gentiles don't believe? Of course not. That's ridiculous.

yeah we just ignore the first part of daniel.

Daniel 9 : 24 - 27 is Gabriel’s answer given by Gd for his racer on Dan 9 1. - 23

No wonder you can not comprehend what it means

NT scripture gives us the understanding of what Daniel 9:24-27 means. You are very ignorant of NT scripture, as you are proving with your complete lack of understanding of Romans 11, so it's no wonder you can't comprehend what Daniel 9:24-27 means.

Whether you believe it or not is irreverent, same goes for me

If you refuse to talk about it. Then you can;t say the other person is wrong. Because you can not refute what they say.

Then you can't say I'm wrong since you refuse to address the NT scriptures I used to support my understanding of Daniel 9:24.

People run from passages when they know they can’t argue them

So, I guess you are running from the NT passages I referenced to support my view of Daniel 9:24 then. You might want to stop saying things like this since they always apply to yourself as well.

 

[covenantee]

So then provide evidence of infanticide and cannibalism by Jews during WW1 or WW2.
At the same time, how about evidence of mass crucifixions of Jews during WW1 or WW2?

Non of that would prove anything.

You’re trying to control the narrative You may think those are worse to suit your own belief. It does not make it so.

It would, and does, prove you wrong.

The evidence controls the narrative.

I have both.

You have neither.

You'll have to try harder next time.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It would, and does, prove you wrong.

The evidence controls the narrative.

I have both.

You have neither.

You'll have to try harder next time.

I agree. The stubbornness we see being displayed on this forum at times is almost unbelievable.

There clearly are various contexts in which an event can be considered the worst of all-time. It could be one resulting in the most total deaths (Christ's return will be the winner there). It could be the one resulting in the highest percentage of deaths in the world (Noah's flood is the winner there). It could be one that involved many horrific, nearly unspeakable things that occurred that resulted in the almost total destruction of a city (70 AD Jerusalem is the winner there). And so on. But, some people aren't even willing to consider these things.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you kidding? It has EVERYTHING to do with this conversation. You can't understand what Paul meant when he said "and so all Israel shall be saved" without understanding which Israel he was talking about. Romans 9:6-8 is not that complicated. You have to make things complicated in order to keep your doctrine afloat.

We are discussing Dan 9. Not romans 11..

Nice try

LOL. No, it is not. Not even close. Did you not see me criticize Calvinism in another post? Why would I interpret something in a Calvinist way when I'm not a Calvinist? Ridiculous.

yet you follow their belief.

That's one of the points he made, sure. But, not the only one.

You’re right, He also made a promise through one son, And that unconditional promise is still in effect today. It has nothign to do with anyones salvation, theirs or ours. God does not renting on his promises

Why are you not taking what you said here and applying it to your understanding of Romans 9:6-8? In that passage Paul talked about an Israel that consists of the children of God and of the promise and he said it has nothing to do with where someone physically descended from. But, you make one's nationality more important than anything else.

Nope. I am doing the same thing I did in Dan 9, I am taking it in context If you read the first 5 verses. The context is the nation of Israel.

Paul used that same description in Romans 9:6-8 to described Spiritual Israelites. So, you are one whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

Actually no he did not. But believe what you want

As I suspected, I'm dealing with an immature child here...

Said the proud person who can not discuss anything.

Both Gentile and Israelite believers fit the description of Spiritual Israel that Paul gave in Romans 9:6-8. No wonder you want to just dismiss that passage as if it wasn't relevant.

There you go again stuck on a few verses.

Again, Neither jew or gentile…

I am not spiritual israel. I am a child of God.

Wow. You obviously don't understand that the olive tree allegory that Paul told in Romans 11 represents individual salvation iChrist. What he said there is no different than what he had said earlier more plainly:

Romans 10:11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Being grafted into the olive tree because of faith equates to being saved by calling on the name of the Lord. Being cut off the olive tree because of unbelief equates to an individual being cut off. How can Gentiles as a group be cut off unless every Gentile was in unbelief? Are you and I going to be cut off if many other Gentiles don't believe? Of course not. That's ridiculous.

israel (the nation) was cut off because of unbelief

If we (gentiles as a group) fall into unbelief, we will be cut off too.

Its funny, with the fall of the church, we are witnessing this today

I should have known you do not agree with eternal security.

NT scripture gives us the understanding of what Daniel 9:24-27 means. You are very ignorant of NT scripture, as you are proving with your complete lack of understanding of Romans 11, so it's no wonder you can't comprehend what Daniel 9:24-27 means.

The OY gives a much better understanding when you take it into context.

You can;t force the narrative

Then you can't say I'm wrong since you refuse to address the NT scriptures I used to support my understanding of Daniel9:24.


So, I guess you are running from the NT passages I referenced to support my view of Daniel 9:24 then. You might want to stop saying things like this since they always apply to yourself as well.

I addressed them many times,, Just not the way you agree.

You have yet to address lev 26, and the OT prophecy of Israel being restored.

Stop being the hypocrite.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It would, and does, prove you wrong.

The evidence controls the narrative.

I have both.

You have neither.

You'll have to try harder next time.

You have nothing

Your trying to control the narrative.

Your interpreting history to fit your belief, not what History actually shows..

 

[covenantee]

You have nothing

Your trying to control the narrative.

Your interpreting history to fit your belief, not what History actually shows..

Does history actually show Jewish infanticide and cannibalism in 70 AD but not in WW1 or WW2?

Does history actually show Jewish mass crucifixions in 70 AD but not in WW1 or WW2?

I've presented evidence which controls the narrative.

You've presented nothing, because you can find nothing.

Nothing from nothing leaves ...

Do you need a hint?

And here's a little gratis English lesson:

"Your" should be "You're".

"You're" welcome.

 

[covenantee]

israel (the nation) was cut off because of unbelief

Individual unfaithful disobedient Israelites were cut off.

Individual faithful obedient Israelites were saved.

A nation is comprised of its individuals.

God deals with individuals.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We are discussing Dan 9. Not romans 11..

Nice try

We are discussing Daniel 9 and related scriptures. You are the one who thinks Daniel 9 has something to do with the salvation of all Israel, so it is you who brought Romans 11 into the discussion, not me.

yet you follow their belief.

LOL. No, I do not. When all you can do is constantly make false claims like this the way you do, you know you have nothing to offer of substance.

Nope. I am doing the same thing I did in Dan 9, I am taking it in context If you read the first 5 verses. The context is the nation of Israel.

The context of Romans 9:6-8 is the contrasting of two Israels with one being the nation of Israel. Paul very specifically indicated that being part of the other Israel has absolutely nothing to do with where a person physically descended from. But, you don't want to deal with Romans 9:6-8 since it contradicts your beliefs.

Actually no he did not. But believe what you want

I don't need your permission to believe what I want.

Said the proud person who can not discuss anything.

LOL. I have been discussing things with you in many posts now. But, I can't discuss anything? You are a comedian. How can I take you seriously when you say ridiculous things like this?

There you go again stuck on a few verses.

A few verses that completely contradict your beliefs. No wonder you want to try to minimize them.

Again, Neither jew or gentile…

I am not spiritual israel. I am a child of God.

That's who Paul said make up spiritual Israel: the children of God. If only you actually read Romans 9:6-8 carefully, you would see that.

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

I color coded this to make it easier for you to see the contrast that Paul made between the two Israels. National Israel is in blue and Spiritual Israel is in red.

National Israel are Abraham's physical descendants. Paul said they are "the children by physical descent". They are not part of the Israel of which not all who are physically descended from Israel are part.

Spiritual Israel are Abraham's spiritual descendants (children, offspring). They are reckoned through Isaac and are children of the promise, as all believers are (see Galatians 4:28). They are "God's children".

Only doctrinal bias can prevent someone from seeing the contrast between the two Israels that Paul made here. Being part of spiritual Israel is not dependent whatsoever on who or where someone descends from. Instead, it requires being a child of God and of the promise. In Galatians 3:26-29 Paul makes it clear that those who belong to Christ are the children of God and of the promise and are Abraham's spiritual seed.

israel (the nation) was cut off because of unbelief

Wrong. Individual Israelites were cut off because of unbelief. There were a remnant who believed, so you can't say the entire nation was cut off. That is absolutely false.

If we (gentiles as a group) fall into unbelief, we will be cut off too.

Do you not understand that the word "we" is sometimes not used to refer to something that only applies to everyone collectively, but rather is used to refer to something that applies to everyone individually? We will not be cut off because of the unbelief of other Gentiles. That is nonsense! Being grafted into the olive tree is analogous to being saved. How can you not know that? If you're a Calvinist, then that would explain it since that would mean you don't think someone can lose their faith. You need to ask God for wisdom about this (James 1:5-7).

Its funny, with the fall of the church, we are witnessing this today

I should have known you do not agree with eternal security.

Are you a Calvinist? Do you ignore warnings given to believers like this:

Hebrews 3:12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

In this passage Paul (I believe he wrote Hebrews) addresses his "brothers and sisters" in Christ and warns them about turning "away from the living God". The very thing that you think can't happen. Your belief makes warnings like this meaningless.

The OY gives a much better understanding when you take it into context.

You can;t force the narrative

I addressed them many times,, Just not the way you agree.

That is a lie. You did not address the scriptures I gave to support my view of Daniel 9:24 at all. You just responded by saying I should read Daniel 9:1-23 and blah blah blah. Anything but addressing those scriptures and how they relate to Daniel 9:24.

You have yet to address lev 26, and the OT prophecy of Israel being restored.

Stop being the hypocrite.

I'll do that as soon as you address the scriptures I quoted in support of my understanding of Daniel 9:24. I'm not holding my breath. One thing you should note, though. The NT sheds light on the OT, not the other way around. When you can't support your doctrine with NT scripture, other than blatantly taking it out of context like you do, then you know that your understanding of those OT scriptures has to be flawed.

 

[covenantee]

You have yet to address lev 26, and the OT prophecy of Israel being restored.

What kind of restoration is being referred to, and where in the NT do we find it confirmed?