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The seventh trumpet is one of the most significant and certainly the easiest to understand of all the trumpets. It introduces some of the final events of our time. Such as the establishment of God’s kingdom, the outpouring of God’s wrath and the final judgment. But let's begin with the most...

where. do you get this stuff?

Chapter 20 doesn't begin with "Then I saw". It begins with "And I saw". So that does not sound like a continuation to me. He starts by saying "And I saw an angel with a key", because he hadn't told us that part before.

The mystery is referred to in chapter 10. It does not actually get accomplished until chapter 14 (harvest of the earth). Chapter 20 is a very condensed parallelism for chapters 9 to 19. Tell me how I am contradicting myself?

Isn't it obvious? Both both occur after the thousand years are over. How can they not be the same event? Let me explain my timeline in a little more detail. Our resurrection/transformation (which most people refer to as the rapture event) happens just before the seventh trumpet sounds...

The harvest of the earth is the second resurrection. This happens just before the seventh trumpet is blown. Then the harvest of the grapes happens just after the seventh trumpet is blown. We know this because it represents the pouring out of God's seven bowls of wrath. The seven bowls are...

I have an end times timeline that makes sense. Seals 5th seal, the martyrs are told to wait a little while longer because more will be killed as they have been 6th seal, the martyrs are resurrected (the great multitude) This is the first resurrection. 7th seal, there is silence in heaven. I...

Ya, I've heard that too. That he comes back to collect his saints (rapture) but doesn't come all the way down to earth. So they still claim he only comes back once, but before he comes back there is a rapture event for the saints to escape the bad times. sigh. sounds nice, doesn't it?

As TexUs already said, we agree that we all get new bodies, it's just the flying up part that we don't agree on, so I'll let your respond to him on that one. As for the cloud part, you have addressed it, but you still seem to believe that we will fly up into the sky. How then do you respond to...

o.k. now let me tell you why I don't believe it can be literal. btw. I believe I've gone over this before in this very same thread but I'm too lazy to go back and look it up. :-) If we are to literally "fly up" then it would be impossible for those trapped indoors. Like in prisons or in...

Easy. They are changed to become incorruptible. Just like those who took part in the first resurrection. Those are "the ones in the clouds". "Clouds" are used figuratively in the Bible to represent power and glory. They will not actually physically fly up into the clouds. Rather they will...

Martin, you seem to want to ignore the fact that "meeting the Lord in the air" can easily be figurative language. Therefore it is not "an absolute fact" as you say. Rather, it is your belief that it is a literal description.

I don't believe in rapture. God is against witchcraft. I agree with you that there is no rapture but I don't agree that your examples prove it.

That has to be the most irresponsible thing I have ever heard come out of a Christian convention. Rejecting a concept because it is divisive? If we were to apply that criteria to the rest of the Bible we would have to reject probably 50% of it. We will not all agree on many issues even...

Wow. Those are some great leaps you are taking there. None of those scriptures you refer to mention anything about rapture or rapture teaching. Ezekiel 13:18-23 for one is warning against witchcraft. Specifically it is speaking against the Pleiades who used a particular kind of magic to...

Revelation is definitely important for us, as are all the other books of the Bible. Just because Revelation is hard to understand doesn't mean we should just say "oh well, I'm saved and that's all that matters.". Do we do that with other books? Give up on them because we don't understand...

Agreed. I also don't think heaven is our destination. I only used that word to avoid branching off into another topic.

As I said, even if God chose to do that, why would he teleport us into the clouds? It doesn't make sense.

I'm joining the discussion late so I haven't read all posts. Sorry if you guys have moved on by now but I just wanted to add. The verse above clearly refers to a very real event. We know that because it's in the Bible and there are no idle words in the Bible. The question is, how much of the...