The resurection at the time of great tribulation

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Scott Downey

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John 5
25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

v28-29. Jesus teaches the resurrection of the wicked and the good, unjust and just happen at the same time. No 1000 year separation of time.

Your argument is with Christ.
 
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Scott Downey

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When is the resurrection in scripture?

Only one resurrection and it is on the Last Day
As is also the judgement on the Last Day

No judgement for the wicked after a 1000 year millennial reign

You guys argue with Christ and Paul

  1. John 6:39
    This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. John 6:40
    And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. John 6:44
    No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  4. John 6:54
    Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  5. John 11:24
    Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  6. John 12:48
    He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.


    2 Timothy 4
    I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom:

What you see here is the problem with cultic thinking according to a pre-taught theological system. Can't believe the truth even when it is clearly pointed out. People get stuck in their theology; it is called being hardened.
 
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Scott Downey

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Christ tells us of this judgement on the last day in a teaching, on the Last Day when He comes in His glory and all the angels with Him gather the peoples of the nations to experience His judgement of them.

Matthew 25

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 
tailgator

tailgator

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Scott Downey said:
Those are false believers. Never born again, Jesus tells us at the judgment, I never knew you.

If Jesus never knew them then they had no saving relationship with Him. This can not be denied.
Click to expand...
You believe people who have received the holy spirit of God are false believers?
The same holy spirit Jesus shed on them?

Hebrews 6​

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,​

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,​

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.​

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:​

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.​

 
tailgator

tailgator

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Scott Downey said:
And I pointed out before, all people Christ resurrects at the same time. It is called the resurrection of the dead.

AND it happens on the LAST DAY of this world, not before, not after.

The 1000 years millennial reign as taught by many is of THIS earth, which then has left another 1000 yrs which has 1000 times 365 days left to go, so not the last day. This is a serious problem with that interpretation
Click to expand...
A day is 1000 years to the Lord.

We see you will not partake in the Lord's 1000 year Sabbath day .You don't even understand a day is 1000 years to the Lord or the last day is the Sabbath.
 
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Scott Downey

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tailgator said:
You believe people who have received the holy spirit of God are false believers?
The same holy spirit Jesus shed on them?

Hebrews 6​

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,​

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,​

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.​

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:​

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.​

Click to expand...
They experienced God in a church, or among other believers. The Holy Spirit is in and surrounding multiple believers.

You say they 'received Him, the Holy Spirit'
But it does not say that anywhere in what you quote.

I believe in eternal salvation for believers if they are His 'sheep'. and these people fell away, so they were not saved, and Jesus never knew them as they were not of His sheep.

The Shepherd Knows His Sheep​

22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in [d]doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, [e]as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”
 
tailgator

tailgator

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Scott Downey said:
And I pointed out before, all people Christ resurrects at the same time. It is called the resurrection of the dead.

AND it happens on the LAST DAY of this world, not before, not after.

The 1000 years millennial reign as taught by many is of THIS earth, which then has left another 1000 yrs which has 1000 times 365 days left to go, so not the last day. This is a serious problem with that interpretation
Click to expand...
According to revelation of Jesus Christ,Everyone is not resurected at the same time.
Verse 5 proves your word wrong.


Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 
tailgator

tailgator

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Scott Downey said:
When is the resurrection in scripture?

Only one resurrection and it is on the Last Day
As is also the judgement on the Last Day

No judgement for the wicked after a 1000 year millennial reign

You guys argue with Christ and Paul

  1. John 6:39
    This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. John 6:40
    And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. John 6:44
    No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  4. John 6:54
    Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  5. John 11:24
    Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  6. John 12:48
    He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him— the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.


    2 Timothy 4
    I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom:

What you see here is the problem with cultic thinking according to a pre-taught theological system. Can't believe the truth even when it is clearly pointed out. People get stuck in their theology; it is called being hardened.
Click to expand...
A day is 1000 years to the Lord.
You should try to learn that sometimes before the Sabbath day
 
tailgator

tailgator

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Scott Downey said:
They experienced God in a church, or among other believers. The Holy Spirit is in and surrounding multiple believers.

You say they 'received Him, the Holy Spirit'
But it does not say that anywhere in what you quote.

I believe in eternal salvation for believers if they are His 'sheep'. and these people fell away, so they were not saved, and Jesus never knew them as they were not of His sheep.

The Shepherd Knows His Sheep​

22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in [d]doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, [e]as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”
Click to expand...

Only them who have received the holy Ghost are partakers of the holy Ghost .Just because Judas sat in the same room with Jesus does not mean he partook the heavenly gift of the holy Ghost as spoken of in the following verse.​

​

​

Hebrews 6​

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,​

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,​

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.​

7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:​

8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.​

 
S

Scott Downey

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tailgator said:
A day is 1000 years to the Lord.

We see you will not partake in the Lord's 1000 year Sabbath day .You don't even understand a day is 1000 years to the Lord or the last day is the Sabbath.
Click to expand...
So now you say a 1000 years is just a day.
No, it is an exact 1000 years of time as taught by millenialists, not a day, 1000 days, or anything in-between.

You are not aware of their doctrine then.

And you're making up stuff again! Yanking scripture out to prove some false point you are making.

Read in context, it has to do with time being meaningless to God. Peter is refuting scoffers who are saying where is the promise of His coming.

2 Peter 3
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of [a]us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and [b]perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward [c]us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
 
tailgator

tailgator

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Scott Downey said:
They experienced God in a church, or among other believers. The Holy Spirit is in and surrounding multiple believers.

You say they 'received Him, the Holy Spirit'
But it does not say that anywhere in what you quote.

I believe in eternal salvation for believers if they are His 'sheep'. and these people fell away, so they were not saved, and Jesus never knew them as they were not of His sheep.

The Shepherd Knows His Sheep​

22 Now it was the Feast of Dedication in Jerusalem, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple, in Solomon’s porch. 24 Then the Jews surrounded Him and said to Him, “How long do You keep us in [d]doubt? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, [e]as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”
Click to expand...

Hebrews 6​

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,​

​

You would have to have been given the heavenly gift to have tasted it.​

 
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Scott Downey

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tailgator said:
A day is 1000 years to the Lord.
You should try to learn that sometimes before the Sabbath day
Click to expand...
You don't realize that saying the things you do completely invalidates scriptures and any actual meaning they have, just becomes a mishmash of whatever you want it to say.

This is actually comical and a really bad thing to do.
 
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Scott Downey

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tailgator said:

Hebrews 6​

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,​

​

You would have to have been given the heavenly gift to have tasted it.​

Click to expand...
Tasted but not eaten it!
It has not changed you on the inside!
They experienced some blessing from God, that is all.
 
tailgator

tailgator

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Scott Downey said:
You don't realize that saying the things you do completely invalidates scriptures and any actual meaning they have, just becomes a mishmash of whatever you want it to say.

This is actually comical and a really bad thing to do.
Click to expand...
Actually ,that is in scripture
But since you don't know or understand scripture,you believe a day to the Lord is 24 hours.
 
tailgator

tailgator

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Scott Downey said:
Tasted but not eaten it!
It has not changed you on the inside!
They experienced some blessing from God, that is all.
Click to expand...
Tasted the heaven gift means it has been given to you and has entered you.
If you had actually paid attention to what Paul said,he was talking about falling away after being given the heavenly gift.
 
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Scott Downey

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tailgator said:
Tasted the heaven gift means it has been given to you and has entered you.
Click to expand...
As the discussion is not changing your cultic mind to be conformed to scripture, any further discussion is just a waste of time. And I wont bother responding.
 
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Scott Downey

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Hebrews 6 is not about losing salvation, but if you do not believe the foundation of eternal life as stated in v 26 - 30, you will believe lies.

John 10
14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

19 The Jews who heard these words were again divided. 20 Many of them said, “He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?”

21 But others said, “These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”

Further Conflict Over Jesus’ Claims​

22 Then came the Festival of Dedication[b] at Jerusalem. It was winter, 23 and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. 24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me,

26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.

27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.

28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.

30 I and the Father are one.”
 
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