Predestination is ALWAYS HOW or PURPOSE.
Nope. I'm not going into detail again, because I have several times.
Those God FOREKNEW (NOT PREDESTINATED)
Both.
Those those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son... And those whom he predestined he also called..." These are Paul's exact words.
God did all these things, GodsGrace. And nobody else had anything to do with it, nor did anything happen that caused Him to decide to do all these things.
He predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son. HOW .... predestined to be conformed....
Absolutely not; it's obviously
why, not "how." They
were predestined ~ their destiny was declared... the result was determined... God's purpose for those people was set... long before they even lived ~ to be conformed to the image of His Son.
Those whom God FOREKNEW He CALLED into being like His Son.
Which is synonymous with fore-loved. And we love because He first loved us. But wait... thse are not Paul's exact words. He says,
"those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified." Don't change the order of what Paul (really God) said, GodsGrace. Or leave anything out. And ~ yet again ~ "those He foreknew" is a group of folks less than the whole of mankind, so he cannot possibly mean "foreknew" in the mere sense of cognitive knowledge beforehand, as I said, because in that sense, He foreknew every
thing and every
one before it ever was.
Not even here is it referring to individuals.
Absolutely it is, and corporately... each one making up the whole.
Please show HOW it is, if you can.
Well, like I said, for the two hundred and thirty-seventh... now thirty-eighth... time... Over and over and over again.
Again....HOW
God predestined us for ADOPTION AS SONS THROUGH JESUS.
This is not "how," GodsGrace, it's for what; He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus. The only "how" is because God decided it would be so. And then you could apply the "how" as by the working of the Holy Spirit. Goodness gracious.
I really don't want to see you try to wriggle out of something you can't get out of or away from, but so be it.
...everything Calvinist is refutable because calvinism is heretical.
Some want to think that, sure. <
smile> But just look at the brief string above here. Can you not see the wooden-headedness of what you are saying? Goodness gracious. You might as well say, "I don't really have a nose on my face, but a tail."
The will of God is that all men come to know Him and be saved.
And here we go again with this... His desire is this. He would
much rather that be the case than what will be the case. But that will not be the case; there will be some who... well, you know. Neither one of us believes in universalism, that all people will be saved, so obviously that is not His purpose, else it would be the case. So ~ yet again ~ if that is His will, then why doesn't it happen? Because nothing can thwart God's purposes. Nothing can thwart God's purposes.
Not all will accept God's conditions.
Ah, well, not all will meet God's standard, which is perfection... sinlessness... holiness. But some will be redeemed, and therefore be clothed with the righteousness of Christ, while others will not.
Yes,,,there are CONDITIONS to being saved.
No, there are responsibilities once one is saved. If there were conditions for man to be saved and man had to meet those conditions, then salvation would not be due to God's grace, but to man's merit... as Paul says, grace would not be grace.
As you can see....Christ gave Himself as a ransom FOR ALL...so that ALL men will have the same opportunity to be saved,,,,
Agree... to here, and here only.
God does not sit in heaven picking, for NO REASON AT ALL...
Agree; God's choices are not arbitrary, and all are according to His own glory.
, and choosing individuals who will go to heaven and those that will go to hell.
He chooses some for Himself, a remnant. And as Paul says, God has every right to make some for noble use and some for common use..
Your going to bring up the crucifixion for support? Can't do better than that?
What are you even talking about here? Do you even know?
OF COURSE the crucifixion had to happen... that was the plan of God from the beginning when man fell in the Garden.
I mean sure, yes, but all I did was say that was the only place anywhere else in Scripture aside from Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 is predestination ever mentioned. Goodness gracious.
I went over the Edenic _Covenant with you and the Adamic Covenant too. Again..no reply to that.
The covenant of life, yes. Renewed with Noah. Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. I don't remember the point you were trying to make, to be honest. I doubt that I didn't reply, but probably just not the way you wanted me to. <
smile>
God either predestinates everything as Calvinism teaches
or
Man has free will.
God predestinates certain people to be conformed to the image of His son. And, man has free will. As I have said countless times, the issue is not really the will ~ or whether it is free or not ~ but the state of the heart... who (or Who) he or she is of, and therefore who (or Who) his or her father (or Father) is, which determines whose (or Whose) will he or she does.
Yes it can... absolutely it can. Really... well, now this will probably make you mad... <chuckles>... There is a sense in which man's will is free, but there is also a sense in which man's will is
never free. To the latter, all we have to do is look at Paul's words in Romans 6 and see that any man, at any one time, is either a slave to unrighteousness or a slave to righteousness. Every man is originally the former, and many remain so.
Do you know what heretical means?
Yes, and you're grossly misapplying it.
Grace and peace to you.
